Bowing and Curtseying


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There was something really beautiful about the State Visits back in the day. I loved the welcoming ceremonies at the train station. For some reason they stopped doing the ceremonies at the train station in the 80's or 90's.
 
it wasn't abolished officially, but Queen Juliana of the Netherlands discouraged being curtsied to and ever since them you will see no curtsies in Netherlands. however, maxima used to curtsy to foreign monarchs when abroad when she was still the princess of orange.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/fellrunner/royalscurtsy/maximacurtsies0001.jpg

That's true, although there were some examples of curtseys by foreign royals in the Netherlands, for example Princess Letitizia curseying for then Queen Beatrix at WA's 40th birthday party in 2007. She made a very low, deep curtsey, as did other princesses (I think Sophie and other Spanish princesses curtsied as well, not sure).
 
Queen Elizabeth II (Princess Elizabeth) Curtseying to Queen Ingrid at 1:47.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZTQoFth_Hc
Interestingly, Gordon Lightfoot's two children from his first marriage were also named Fred and Ingrid (their mother was Swedish). Hmm, I wonder.... 29 days until I see him live at Hamilton Place; I have a big circle around May 7th! I wonder if the staff at McMaster hospital will be there (which I live just up the street from); they did save his life almost 12 years ago! Sorry if I got off-topic here.
 
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There was something really beautiful about the State Visits back in the day. I loved the welcoming ceremonies at the train station. For some reason they stopped doing the ceremonies at the train station in the 80's or 90's.

In many European countries the rail networks have become very busy and tight in schedule. Especially in the United Kingdom, where the network has been privatized and several rail companies make use of the same network. This means that any State Visit using a train, with security before and after, closure of platforms at the station, closure of railway lines for the royal train, etc. cause a major hindrance to the proper workings of the railways.

Back then in the 1950's and 1960's when the railways were not as congested as today, there was more space but also more goodwill to arrange "slots" for the arrivals and departures of royal trains.
 
:previous:
Thanks for pointing that out.
 
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A 4 days State Visit , what an organization and what an amount of day and evening dresses.
 
In many European countries the rail networks have become very busy and tight in schedule. Especially in the United Kingdom, where the network has been privatized and several rail companies make use of the same network. This means that any State Visit using a train, with security before and after, closure of platforms at the station, closure of railway lines for the royal train, etc. cause a major hindrance to the proper workings of the railways.

Back then in the 1950's and 1960's when the railways were not as congested as today, there was more space but also more goodwill to arrange "slots" for the arrivals and departures of royal trains.

Unfortunately, here in the UK the phrase "cause a major hindrance to the proper workings of the railways" is very little used on account of the fact that we've not had a "proper working of the railways" for decades. Accordingly, I doubt our commuters would notice much difference if a state visit caused a delay lol!
 
So far in William & Kate's Australasia Tour, I've never seen people curtsey to them. Why?
 
So far in William & Kate's Australasia Tour, I've never seen people curtsey to them. Why?

In the first place, a curtsey or a bow is always optional, never an obligation. A nice handshake is as good as a curtsey. For New Zealand and Australia I think there are three things to take in account:
- there is no any culture of curtseys or bows in these countries
- the visitors are not the royal couple, not even the heirs, but a step lower
- the visitors are young and it will be a generational attitude. A bow to an older lady feels "natural" a bow to fresh young Catherine is not.

Just my guess.
 
Thanks Duc_et_Pair for the explanation, that's very sensible!:)
 
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So far in William & Kate's Australasia Tour, I've never seen people curtsey to them. Why?

They've received some curtsies and bows on the tour. I saw it in the Live Coverage's.
 
In the olden days (1800's), girls and young women curtsied to any adult they were introduced to or encountered; even non-royals. I wonder why this was discontinued? I see it as a mark of respect to any superior, royalty or not (especially your music or ballet/dance teacher!)
 
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In the olden days (1800's), girls and young women curtsied to any adult they were introduced to or encountered; even non-royals. I wonder why this was discontinued? I see it as a mark of respect to any superior, royalty or not (especially your music or ballet/dance teacher!)


It's a mark of respect that extended well into the 20th century. Princess Caroline of Monaco curtsied to notable adults(heads-of-state, princes of the Church) as a child. Jacqueline Kennedy also had her very young children doing the same when they lived in the WH in the early 60's.

It's very charming and polite, but it's an upper class courtesy that appears to have died out, like so many others.
 
It was also very common to genuflect in the aisle of a Roman-Catholic Church (facing the High Altar) before getting seated. This is also a sort of curtsey. At present only practized at more conservative parishes, likewise the use of lace veils.
 
It was also very common to genuflect in the aisle of a Roman-Catholic Church (facing the High Altar) before getting seated. This is also a sort of curtsey. At present only practized at more conservative parishes, likewise the use of lace veils.

Here in the US very few women wear lace veils unless it's to a Tridentine Mass, but most people still genuflect before sitting if the Sacrament is on the altar. It would personally never occur to me to sit down without genuflecting, I was taught that it's a sign of respect , faith and reverence.

People who do not genuflect will usually at least bow their heads and make the sign of the Cross here in the U.S before taking their seats.
 
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It was also very common to genuflect in the aisle of a Roman-Catholic Church (facing the High Altar) before getting seated. This is also a sort of curtsey. At present only practized at more conservative parishes, likewise the use of lace veils.

Genuflection is still very common in Ireland,mantillas are making a small comeback but mainly at Tridentine Masses,there's a church near me where all the ladies wear them!
 
At the {High Anglican church} i attended as a child everybody genuflected before the high Altar, as they took, or vacated their pew. i believe it remains common practice today,
 
In the olden days (1800's), girls and young women curtsied to any adult they were introduced to or encountered; even non-royals. I wonder why this was discontinued? I see it as a mark of respect to any superior, royalty or not (especially your music or ballet/dance teacher!)

No one should have to bow and scrape to anyone!! That is old fashion and rather silly. Yes, some upper class people had their children curtsy to adults in the 60's but that all died out with the debutante party. It's ridiculous and NOT a sign of respect, it is a sign of subservience and no one is less than anyone else. That is why no American diplomat bows to European royalty. Nancy Reagan did it once and was vilified for it. We are all equal in this world.
 
Here in the US very few women wear lace veils unless it's to a Tridentine Mass, but most people still genuflect before sitting if the Sacrament is on the altar. It would personally never occur to me to sit down without genuflecting, I was taught that it's a sign of respect , faith and reverence.

People who do not genuflect will usually at least bow their heads and make the sign of the Cross here in the U.S before taking their seats.

At my cousin's wedding 11 years ago (my dad's family's United), he married a French Canadian girl; the service was a high mass, complete with bell ringing, and was all in Latin (which I didn't understand a word of until my brother took it in high school years later (like our parents did)), and all the girls and women had to wear lace veils. Her 5-year-old niece was the flower girl, and she even wore a white dress with a veil; she looked like she was taking her first communion, even though she wasn't. On the contrary, his brother's wedding to an Italian girl was a low mass, and was all in English; same as my parents' (no lace veils there).
 
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No one should have to bow and scrape to anyone!! That is old fashion and rather silly. Yes, some upper class people had their children curtsy to adults in the 60's but that all died out with the debutante party. It's ridiculous and NOT a sign of respect, it is a sign of subservience and no one is less than anyone else. That is why no American diplomat bows to European royalty. Nancy Reagan did it once and was vilified for it. We are all equal in this world.
Hmm, funny how no one has raised the issue of bowing to their instructor at a Dojo and yet it is exactly the same thing, a traditional sign of respect. No one mentions it or denigrates it as they do when it concerns royalty and yet when they see it on film or TV or when they and/or their children do it they accept it as "normal". No bowing or scraping implied and no statements about subservience
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What an artful bow by Prince Louis!
I wouldn't mind betting that he kissed her hand as well.

http://www.tageblatt.lu/diashow/3463/4900008127107921-bd22ab3c7e6e80530e02a40c185c23c5.jpg . . . as does King Juan Carlos being a gentleman to Queen Paola
 
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Is there any photos of HGD Stephanie curtseyed? I never saw it.
 
Hmm, funny how no one has raised the issue of bowing to their instructor at a Dojo and yet it is exactly the same thing, a traditional sign of respect. No one mentions it or denigrates it as they do when it concerns royalty and yet when they see it on film or TV or when they and/or their children do it they accept it as "normal". No bowing or scraping implied and no statements about subservience.

And your music/ballet teacher no doubt! I curtsied to my piano teacher out of respect after my performance one time last semester and she just chuckled! Needless to say I was tickled pink by her reaction! She's probably done it herself after performances; she's a singer-songwriter and gives concerts. She's just a young woman, and really fun to be around! Since I have such an extensive musical background, she often calls on me to demonstrate things while we're at the piano during the group portion of our class; the other members are either new at it or have only been playing for a little while. But I don't mind! I always look forward to my Thursday evening lessons.
 
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Not to mention all the Figure Skaters out there who bow and curtsey at the end of their performances. Both as a form of thanking the Audience and a sign of respect as well.
 
Wonderful photo,I'm wondering also if this was HGD Stephanies first meeting with the Spanish King & Queen?

I think it must be. The Prince and Princess of Asturias attended her wedding, King J-C and Queen Sofia did not. She might have met Queen Sofia at the 2012 Summer Games in London, but I am not 100% certain Sofia attended the Games and J-C definitely didn't.

Great point about curtseying/bowing Tiggersk8 and MARG...I completely agree. There can never be too much courtesy or good manners in the world. "Equality" has nothing to do with it,imo.
 
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