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  #1141  
Old 05-28-2012, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by KatieLouise View Post
That's quite interesting - so it seems a President is the Sovereign in his own state.
Actually in the US the people are Sovereign, and the President only represents them. Read the Constitution and you'll see this in plain print.
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  #1142  
Old 05-28-2012, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by assia View Post
I saw a pic with Crown Princess Mette-Marit bowing to Crown Princess Victoria, I was a bit surprised as I thought that they would be at the same rank : one being the spouse of a crown prince and the other a crown princess on her own. Does anyone know something about it ?
Well you nailed it in your question. Mette-Marit is just a royal by marriage. Crown Princess Victoria is one by birth. She will be a sovereign, not a consort - so she out ranks Mette-Marit unless Haakon becomes King before Victoria becomes Queen.

As a matter of fact, if being seated by Precedence, the King of Thailand, out ranks Elizabeth II as he has been a King since 1946. If they were ever at the same table, being seated he would be seated ahead of her. Length of reign is the 1st determiner of precedence, then title (I.E Emperor/King out rank Grand Dukes, who out rank Princes, etc)
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  #1143  
Old 05-28-2012, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by qzwxec View Post
No way they do this. Heads of State do not bow to one another, or curtsey to one another. As much of a Royalist as I am, if I ever heard of or saw our President do this, I would be incensed. He represents us, and our Sovereignty, and no monarch is allowed to infringe upon my Sovereignty as an American Citizen.

That said, I am a royalist and wish we had our own monarch.
Prepare to be incensed- Obama bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, thereby incensing a great many of us
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  #1144  
Old 05-28-2012, 06:31 PM
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Obama did indeed stir up a firestorm in the U.S. with that bow to the King of Saudi Arabia; that picture hit all major media here and caused quite a ruckus.
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  #1145  
Old 05-28-2012, 11:35 PM
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I see the point of out of respect to bow. I also see the point of we are USA and we bow to no one. That should be the attitude of every nation.
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  #1146  
Old 05-29-2012, 04:42 AM
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I respect your opinion, but I do feel that one should respect the customs and traditions of the country one is visiting whether one is from the USA or my country, Ireland. I would hope that someone visiting Ireland would respect the protocols we have as I would if visiting for example, the UK, where I would most certainly bow to The Queen as custom dictates.
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  #1147  
Old 05-29-2012, 09:56 AM
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Well, as a private citizen, you have a point, but as the head of a country, whether king or president or premier, one does not bow to the head of another country.
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  #1148  
Old 05-29-2012, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by qzwxec View Post
Actually, the male line STUART heir would be King, and he is HRH Franz, The Duke of Bavaria, Head of the Bavarian Royal House.
Salic law has nothing to do with it. Succession to the British throne is governed by law enacted by the Parliament, namely the Act of Settlement 1701 which was designed to ensure the Protestant succession. A British Monarch cannot determine his or her successor; for over 300 years the Parliament has reserved that power for itself.

The Act of Settlement states that succession falls to "the heirs of the body, being Protestant" of the Electress Sophia of Hanover, thus bypassing all of the Roman Catholic descendants of Charles I, which today includes the Duke of Bavaria. Duke Franz is the "representative and heir" of Charles I. While he is disbarred from the British succession due to his religion, he is not the rightful King first and foremost because he is not the heir of the Electress Sophia, as required by law.

If Britain had practiced Salic law Queen Victoria would not have succeeded William IV; instead his younger brother Ernst August, Duke of Cumberland would have become King of Great Britain as well as King of Hanover. Alternatively, if Hanover had not practiced Salic law, Victoria would have inherited both kingdoms and today Elizabeth II would be Queen of the United Kingdom and titular or de juré Queen of Hanover.
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  #1149  
Old 05-29-2012, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by DukeOfAster View Post
I see the point of out of respect to bow. I also see the point of we are USA and we bow to no one. That should be the attitude of every nation.
I find it frightfully boorish when I notice that there are those on these forums, primarily from the United States it would appear (and from experience), who often care to inform us (those who are not from the US) as to how 'it' should be in terms of observed etiquette within our own realms (which I shall add is at ones own discretion).

It reads as being arrogant and or ignorant of any other cultural custom and or observance. Almost as though it's a childish folly.

To me, that is incensing.
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  #1150  
Old 05-29-2012, 07:18 PM
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And you are so right. We would be irate if you came over here and tried to tell us what to do. One goes with the custom of the countries one is visiting, but my statement was in regard to heads of state. We do not curtsy to anyone here in the US and for some reason some people think that shouldn't be done in GB for example. We probably would fall on our faces if we tried, but I think we could try a little bob for the Queen wihout damaging our amour propre too much.
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  #1151  
Old 05-29-2012, 07:24 PM
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I agree that no head of state should bow or curtsey to another head of state, whatever their position be it elected or inherited. It's not what I consider to be appropriate representative conduct.

In the instance of President Obama, one can only surmise as to why he chose to do so. I suppose he may have been in awe of the setting and momentarily forgot himself. This was fairly early on in his Presidency and I cannot recall it having happened since.
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  #1152  
Old 05-29-2012, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Balinsale View Post
...I do feel that one should respect the customs and traditions of the country one is visiting...
I agree; when in Rome (or in this case Great Britain), do as the Romans (British) do. It's courteous, and shows that you're a person who has the decency to respect countries that are outside of your own. Unfortunately, I have a few acquaintances who don't abide by this particular rule, and it's very unpleasant to hear them constantly harp about how 'they' won't do something just because it's not what's done in the States.
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
I find it frightfully boorish...
I couldn't agree more. I find it very distasteful, rude and uncultured.
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  #1153  
Old 05-29-2012, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by wanderingnana View Post
Well, as a private citizen, you have a point, but as the head of a country, whether king or president or premier, one does not bow to the head of another country.
Interesting, watching the Katie Couric special there was a clip of Ronald and Nancy Reagan arrivng at the palace we see Ronald give the head nod/bow as he walked forward to be met by the Queen.
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  #1154  
Old 05-29-2012, 10:54 PM
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The Reagans were raked over the coals by the American press for doing that. We are never to bow, curtsy or dip our flag to anyone or any country. That's US protocall. That's why we fought the revolution.It may look arrogant to other countries but it makes sense to Americans. In the Olympics opening ceremony most countries dip their flag to the host country. The US never does.
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  #1155  
Old 05-30-2012, 12:03 AM
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I notice that on the Katie Couric special earlier tonight, Ms. Couric specifically inquired about whether she must curtsey, and the Queen's press aide (or whoever that woman was in the elegant black ensemble) said whatever makes you feel comfortable. As it was, Couric made a very nice little bob after all, which I think was only polite.

And I think it's extremely arrogant of the US never to dip the flag to the host country at the Olympics. Just because we won a war 230-some years ago doesn't give us the right to be discourteous or rudely ignore protocol, at least on a national basis.
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  #1156  
Old 05-30-2012, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Interesting, watching the Katie Couric special there was a clip of Ronald and Nancy Reagan arrivng at the palace we see Ronald give the head nod/bow as he walked forward to be met by the Queen.
I caught that too, and noticed that Nancy didn't do a bow or curtsey. Then again its been well documented that she bullied Ronnie around.
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Originally Posted by wanderingnana View Post
Prepare to be incensed- Obama bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, thereby incensing a great many of us
Picture & video proof please.
Never heard this ONCE in the press. Faux News surely would have made a big deal about it.
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  #1157  
Old 05-30-2012, 12:24 AM
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It was pretty well reported at the time.He also bowed to the Japanese emperor.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...e-emperor.html
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  #1158  
Old 05-30-2012, 01:19 AM
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Never heard this ONCE in the press.
Afraid not.

And what a deep bow from the waist it was too!

I indeed forgot that the President did bow to another head of state other than HM the King of Saudi Arabia. As stated above, to HIM the Emperor of Japan. Again, quite deep.



The Queen's Australian Prime Minister was set upon by the media last year for not curtseying to the sovereign whilst in Australia. Of course our Madame Prime Minister was quite within her rights to greet with a mere shaking of hands, but even so, a good many people were surprised and some disgruntled by what was labelled as being an intentional show of disregard for the conventional (traditional) norm.
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  #1159  
Old 05-30-2012, 04:46 AM
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In regards to bow to the Japanese Imperial couple - most people do that, including Heads of State. Not because the Emperor and Empress are particularly special protocol wise, but simply because bowing is the traditional way of greeting in Japan. In fact, Emperor Akihito and Empress Michiko also often bow to others, including non-royals; when the Emperor was recently discharged from hospital, both he and his wife bowed to the doctors (who obviously returned the bow).

President Obama's bow to the Emperor was somewhat deeper that is the custom (for Heads of State), although his bow to the Empress was perfect.
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  #1160  
Old 05-30-2012, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by qzwxec View Post
Picture & video proof please.
Never heard this ONCE in the press. Faux News surely would have made a big deal about it.
You obviously ween't paying attenion or reading the news back then. It was widely reported on TV and in the news and there was a big national ruckus about it and not only by Republicans. That may have been his first faux pas but he has committeed others, per example, picking up his very undeserved Nobel Prize and then immediately leaving Norway, skipping the banquet and thereby insulting the Norwegians and their King as well as causing most of us to cringe at his bad manners. One can only hope he has learned
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