Bowing and Curtseying


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I believe that a bishop is considered a prince of the church. She probably did it more out of respect for him and his position, and perhaps RC protocol. I'm a little hazy on that but I've seen other catholic royals bow or kiss the hands of high ranking RC clergy.
 
Its Catholic protocol to kiss the episcopal ring of a Bishop or an Archbishop ,the church used to be very strict about such customs.I remember recently seeing King Juan Carlos doing this before Mass as he greeted the Archbishop.

(From my Catholic youth we were all taught by the nuns to genuflect in the presence of our Bishop.)
 
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Its Catholic protocol to kiss the episcopal ring of a Bishop or an Archbishop ,the church used to be very strict about such customs.I remember recently seeing King Juan Carlos doing this before Mass as he greeted the Archbishop.

(From my Catholic youth we were all taught by the nuns to genuflect in the presence of our Bishop.)

I remember that too from my Catholic upbringing. One of my relatives was a Jesuit priest and would come over to the house for a few drinks and a game of cards with the adults but before he left, we all knelt for a blessing. I do believe to this day (although I've left the Christian faith) that kneeling, along with bowing and curtsying, are methods of showing respect, reverence and humility.
 
It is cardinals who are princes of the church, not bishops and archbishops. Bishops are considered as modern apostles(this is not easy to explain). When I was a practicing catholic I would have curtsied to a cardinal but not to a bishop because at the time things were not as strict. I do know people in my native Poland who go down on one knee and kiss the hands of priests even.

I think it's nice that Charlene shows such reverence. I don't know if it's actually required of her or comes from her desire to show respect. I don't know what her level of devotion to the church is.

I haven't seen pictures of any of the other Monegasque ladies doing the same. Are there any such pictures?
 
All 3 of the Monegasque Princesses genuflected to the Archbishop of Monaco upon arrival at the Cathedral prior to yesterday's Mass and also at the end of the video below.

NATIONAL DAY OF MONACO -
 
Thank you An Ard Ri.:)

A Roman Catholic bishop is a direct descendent of the twelve Apostles through apostolic succession and the sacrament of Holy Orders down the centuries, and is therefore much more than "just a priest" to any practicing and well brought up member of the Church.

I realize that it looks odd to some non-Catholics, but the believer is not making a reverence to the Bishop or Cardinal himself, but to who he represents.
 
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They only bow and curtsey to the head priest. It is showing respect for the Catholic church.
 
They only bow and curtsey to the head priest. It is showing respect for the Catholic church.

There's no such thing as a head priest in the Catholic Church,the Monegasque Princesses are genuflecting to the Archbishop of Monaco who is the highest ranking prelate in the Principality of Monaco.
 
Thank you An Ard Ri.:)



I realize that it looks odd to some non-Catholics, but the believer is not making a reverence to the Bishop or Cardinal himself, but to who he represents.

You're welcome :flowers:

Yes it does,especially when you see a King/Queen (King Juan Carlos/Queen Sofia of Spain) or Sovereign Prince doing so,but its part of Roman Catholic ceremony and Protocol.
 
It's still custom (here) to kneel to a bishop, even to kiss his ring. It's not required of course. However I can't imagine any orthodox (faithfully practicing) Catholic who wouldn't make some sort of bow/genuflect/kiss the ring of the pope...even down to a cardinal and a bishop it's not uncommon to see.

We have a few Fillipino ladies here at Mass and they take the priests hand and put it to their forehead. I always assume it's a cultural thing.


LaRae
 
I understand being respectful towards the priests but still do not understand the curtsey part. Shaking the hand, maybe kiss the hand but to curtsey to a priest is somewhat odd to me. If anything I would think it should be the other way around. It almost seems awkward that she would do that. Am I being too critical here?

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I'm catholic but I've kissed a bishop's hand (ring) just once in my life (and being quite active in my local church I've been in touch with my local archbishops frequently)...I think this is one of those things that goes with tradition and people's sentiment. Our new archbishop is young and doesn't allow us to kneel or kiss his hand...he just shakes our hands. Olders however still use the old ways.
that said...I presume one has to bow a little in order to kiss one's hand (it's a sort of submission after all) and it can look rather awkward if you do it the way men kiss ladies' hand. so probably men bow and ladies curtsey as they would do with royal figures.
 
I understand being respectful towards the priests but still do not understand the curtsey part. Shaking the hand, maybe kiss the hand but to curtsey to a priest is somewhat odd to me. If anything I would think it should be the other way around. It almost seems awkward that she would do that. Am I being too critical here?

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I think it may be a bit too critical. This is just the way things are done, in Monaco especially. Charlene isn't the only person who has curtsied to a priest. Princesses Stephanie and Caroline both do it, as did Princess Grace.

It's a part of their royal tradition. Too often are people critical of the tradition and customs, or lack thereof, of the Monaco royals--then when there is some tradition thrown their way, they view it as odd.

The traditions and customs of the Princely House of Monaco are always going to be different than those of other royal families. They are the only royals with French and Italian heritage, and their customs and the way they act are very much of that culture.
 
Yes. You are right. What may be tradition for some may seem odd to people who are not familiar with it. I found it strange as I have never seen that done by a royal. Traditions are that way I suppose.
 
Yes--especially with Monaco. Think about it ...

The royal traditions in Norway, Sweden, and Denmark don't seem so odd to most because all three nations have a lot of the came customs--because they are so close culturally and geographically. The same goes with the Netherlands and Belgium--and Luxembourg follows suit a lot of the time.

The UK is a beast all in itself because they are known and get attention in the rest of the non-monarchy nations--so their traditions don't seem so odd.

Monaco is all on it's own. I'm sure if France and Italy still had monarchies, a lot of their traditions would be very similar to those of Monaco. Their royals would probably also be just "unconventional" in their personal lives, too, so to speak. That's just how the Italian and French cultures are -- as is the Monegasque culture.
 
Monaco is very conservative. Women didn't get the right to vote until the 1960s. I don't find it surprising that they stick to long held traditions.
 
Wow. Conservative didn't even cross my mind. It seems like a very modern society with loads of glamour and wealth. I guess I don't see the conservative in a country that is so geared towards excess. Just saying.
 
Monaco is very conservative. Women didn't get the right to vote until the 1960s. I don't find it surprising that they stick to long held traditions.

Seriously??? The 1960s????
 
I understand being respectful towards the priests but still do not understand the curtsey part. Shaking the hand, maybe kiss the hand but to curtsey to a priest is somewhat odd to me. If anything I would think it should be the other way around. It almost seems awkward that she would do that. Am I being too critical here?

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I am a terribly clumsy person and could not curtsy correctly if my life was on the line.:lol: On the couple of occasions in my life when I have encountered a Cardinal, I genuflected (bent the knee) and kissed his ring. Once I was required to kneel on the stone steps of the church with some other parishioners when receiving a special blessing and almost toppled over while trying to stand-keep in mind I was a young, healthy woman at the time!:ohmy:

My point is that a Catholic should and can do what they are comfortable doing as long as it is within the guidelines of respect and protocol. I have noticed for example that Prince Albert bowed slightly when visiting the Pope, while Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume genuflected deeply and kissed the Papal ring during a recent visit. Both actions are considered both respectful and appropriate for a Catholic.
 
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It's not just tradition....it means something when a (Catholic) person kneels/bows/kisses the ring of a member of the Clergy. If someone merely does it just to do it there's little point to it.

I've teared up when the Bishop comes to our parish....it's what he represents not who he is per se. Can't imagine how it would be to meet the pope.


LaRae
 
From what I've seen of Pope Francis, I'd imagine it would be wide open, huggable and smiles all the way around. Yes he is the Pope and there's always been kind of a protocol as far as meeting him but he's just a likable kind of guy it seems. My mother did have a chance to meet Pope John Paul II and she was just awestruck by the aura of peace the man had.

But anyways, back to the subject at hand, there are just traditions whether it be in a church or with royalty or in many different situations where certain things are done to show respect, reverence, humility and such. In times past even servitude and obeisance. Times have changed so much these days that what suits one person/culture may seem strange to another. My mother for example would die before she wore a pair of slacks to church in the 50s-60s. As times changed, so did she.
 
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My parish is the Cathedral Parish so we see the Archbishop or Bishop every Sunday. We genuflect to towards the altar ( Where the Blessed Sacrament is ) not the the Archbishop. I have never seen anyone curtsey. I remember kissing the Cardinal's ring when I was confirmed but my children did not do this.

Maybe it is a European thing. I actually was more surprised that P. Charlene's head was not covered.
But the bottom line is that they were showing respect and reverence. That's always good.

We did get to see Pope John Paul II. That was an emotional experience.
 
It could be a generational thing as well. For example when I look at old newsreels of papal audiences and appearances the crowds appear so respectful and reverent. They make the Sign of the Cross when the pontiff passes them and some even kneel.

During the funeral ceremonies for John Paul II in 2005 some people in the massive crowds blessed themselves when his body was brought out during the procession to St. Peter's Basilica, but many many more were simply holding their cell phones aloft to get a good picture. I have also noticed this inside the basilica itself during papal liturgies. The Pope passes them and gives them his Blessing, and they respond by taking a photo and posting it on Twitter.:ohmy:

I find it very disrespectful.:sad:
 
Can anyone tell me where this photo is from? What occasion? HRH The Princess of Hanover, Hereditary Princess of Monaco curtsying to HM The Queen.

carolinecurtsies0002.jpg
 
:previous:
That was Caroline & Ernst of Hanover arriving to a state banquet with German President Horst Koehler and Queen Elizabeth II at the Zeughaus Palace, 02 November 2004 in Berlin. The Queen was on a three-day state visit to Germany at the time.

Very nice curtsey from Caroline.
 
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What a lovely and graceful curtsy from The Princess of Hanover to the Queen1
 
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Caroline grew up curtsying from her earliest childhood. She would know how to execute a perfect one at this point in her life!;)
 
Caroline grew up curtsying from her earliest childhood. She would know how to execute a perfect one at this point in her life!;)

Correct. And in top of that she has been doing classical ballet almost all her life. She has enough grace and agility for.
 
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