Bowing and Curtseying - Page 36

Lakshmi · #**701** 03-01-2009, 05:33 AM

It seems odd to me that CP Mary is curtseying prince Henrik. I also saw pic of Mary curtseying queen Margrethe. They are family members after all. Do I miss something, but I have not seen within European royals that family members curtsy each other.

MARG · #**702** 03-01-2009, 06:49 AM

When they are all out in public regardless of "family", precedence takes over. Queen Margrethe and Prince Henrik are the Queen and Consort.

Ann curtsys to her mother in public as does Victoria. Camilla, Letizia, Maxima, Sohpie et al, all curtsey tot heir respective mother's-inlaw in public.

That being the case, I don't see any of them doing it "en famillie".

PrincessofEurope · #**703** 03-01-2009, 10:03 AM

As far as i have heard the first time a member of the British royal family sees the Queen even in private they bow or curtsey

Sira · #**704** 03-01-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kotroman

I would never bow to a royal, not because I'm citizen of a republic but because I'm a Muslim. Bowing to other human beings is frowned upon in Muslim cultures as all human beings are considered equal. Muslims bow to God only, so I'd stand up upright if I ever meet a royal.

Do Muslims around the world respect this rule? Are there any photographs of Muslims bowing to royals?

You are ABSOLUTELY right. Muslims do not bow to other human beings as they are all equal in the eyes of God.

RoyalProtocol · #**705** 03-01-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakshmi

It seems odd to me that CP Mary is curtseying prince Henrik. I also saw pic of Mary curtseying queen Margrethe. They are family members after all. Do I miss something, but I have not seen within European royals that family members curtsy each other.

Oh they do curtsey to each other as the above posts have said, members of the British RF do bow / curtsey to The Queen when they see her for the first time in the day

Bonbon · #**706** 03-03-2009, 10:31 AM

Letizia receives a curtsey last night, at the Gala dinner. Photo from IPA

http://img231.imagevenue.com/img.php..._122_513lo.jpg

TLLK · #**707** 03-03-2009, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MARG

When they are all out in public regardless of "family", precedence takes over. Queen Margrethe and Prince Henrik are the Queen and Consort.

Ann curtsys to her mother in public as does Victoria. Camilla, Letizia, Maxima, Sohpie et al, all curtsey tot heir respective mother's-inlaw in public.

That being the case, I don't see any of them doing it "en famillie".

As I understand the Dutch court does not require curtseying and bowing, but I have seen Maxima curtsey to foreign monarchs ie: King and Queen of Thailand.

RoyalProtocol · #**708** 03-03-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TLLK

As I understand the Dutch court does not require curtseying and bowing, but I have seen Maxima curtsey to foreign monarchs ie: King and Queen of Thailand.

Its a case of when in Rome

auntie · #**709** 03-03-2009, 12:52 PM

So if I understand right, Prince Henrik/QSophia/QSonja will not have to curtsey/bow to their daughters in law if they become consorts in their lifetime, but will they have to bow/curtsey to their son when he becomes monarch? The first thing QMary of GB being a fickle for royal protocol, did was to curtsey to her sons, and grandaughter Elizabeth when they ascended the throne, being that she was "only" a consort, whilst they were reigning monarchs

auntie · #**710** 03-04-2009, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auntie

so if i understand right, prince henrik/qsophia/qsonja will not have to curtsey/bow to their daughters in law if they become consorts in their lifetime, but will they have to bow/curtsey to their son when he becomes monarch? The first thing qmary of gb being a fickle for royal protocol, did was to curtsey to her sons, and grandaughter elizabeth when they ascended the throne, being that she was "only" a consort, whilst they were reigning monarchs

anyone? Anyone?anyone?

auntie · #**711** 03-04-2009, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kotroman

I would never bow to a royal, not because I'm citizen of a republic but because I'm a Muslim. Bowing to other human beings is frowned upon in Muslim cultures as all human beings are considered equal. Muslims bow to God only, so I'd stand up upright if I ever meet a royal.

Do Muslims around the world respect this rule? Are there any photographs of Muslims bowing to royals?

Judaism requires to say a blessing when meeting a monarch: "He who has bequeathed his honour unto human beings" I remember how the Late cheif Rabbi of England Lord Jacobowitz saying it everytime he tok part of a state event.

**Warren** · #**712** 03-04-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sira

You are ABSOLUTELY right. Muslims do not bow to other human beings as they are all equal in the eyes of God.

I don't know why bowing or curtseying have become a "Muslim" issue, but a look at the Brunei forum and the Royalty of Malaysia threads will show that Muslims do indeed "bow to other human beings."

Filippos · #**713** 03-05-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sira

You are ABSOLUTELY right. Muslims do not bow to other human beings as they are all equal in the eyes of God.

I don't think it is a question of religion. Monarchies have renounced to divine right long, long ago. And all men and women are created equal in the face of God, pretty much in every religion.
It is a question of respect for a symbol. It's like standing up when you sing the national anthem, or a President (or monarch, for that matter) bowing to the national flag.
If the monarch, or the royal family is considered a symbol of something greater than an individual (national unity, national identity, etc.), then it is nice to show respect TO THE SYMBOL by complying with a certain protocol rule. I live in a Republic (and proud of it), and I respect my symbols. If I lived in a monarchy, I would have no problem in bowing to a king or prince, and I wouldn't feel less for that.

Maura724 · #**714** 03-06-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auntie

So if I understand right, Prince Henrik/QSophia/QSonja will not have to curtsey/bow to their daughters in law if they become consorts in their lifetime, but will they have to bow/curtsey to their son when he becomes monarch? The first thing QMary of GB being a fickle for royal protocol, did was to curtsey to her sons, and grandaughter Elizabeth when they ascended the throne, being that she was "only" a consort, whilst they were reigning monarchs

They do not have to curtsy/bow to the new reigning monarch, and Queen Mary did not have to curtsy to her granddaughter or sons. All "His/Her Majesty"s are on equal footing and don't curtsy/bow to one another, whether they are consorts or regnants. However, Queen Mary chose to curtsy to the new monarchs the first time she met them after their ascension in order to impress upon them the significance of their new role and the difference in who they now were. I don't believe she did it more than once for any of them.

There is a funny story about Queen Mary's being received by the new QE2: after curtsying to the new young Queen, she solemnly said, "God Save the Queen." Then she continued, "Lilibet, your skirt is much too short for mourning." I guess Granny is always Granny...

auntie · #**715** 03-15-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maura724

They do not have to curtsy/bow to the new reigning monarch, and Queen Mary did not have to curtsy to her granddaughter or sons. All "His/Her Majesty"s are on equal footing and don't curtsy/bow to one another, whether they are consorts or regnants. However, Queen Mary chose to curtsy to the new monarchs the first time she met them after their ascension in order to impress upon them the significance of their new role and the difference in who they now were. I don't believe she did it more than once for any of them.

There is a funny story about Queen Mary's being received by the new QE2: after curtsying to the new young Queen, she solemnly said, "God Save the Queen." Then she continued, "Lilibet, your skirt is much too short for mourning." I guess Granny is always Granny...

Phew, I waited a long time for this answer, thanks Maura!

Madame Royale · #**716** 03-15-2009, 01:02 PM

HM Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother curtsied (was a slight bob really) to her daughter whilst viewing from the royal box at the 1953 Coronation.

Andrew 24 · #**717** 03-15-2009, 08:19 PM

I have never seen Queen Sofia of Spain curtseying (ofcourse as a princess) but I know she did. I would like to see photos when she curtsy to...

HMQueenElizabethII · #**718** 03-15-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madame Royale

HM Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother curtsied (was a slight bob really) to her daughter whilst viewing from the royal box at the 1953 Coronation.

I think to show the respect, because as a Monarch, QEII's position is overall even the Queen Mother. I remember the Queen's grandmother, Queen Mary, who passed away just weeks before her grandaughter's coronation, asked for seeing the Queen in the Coronation robes, and made a curtsey.

kbear · #**719** 03-15-2009, 09:02 PM

Have very much enjoyed this thread and just to point out to those who are anti bowing/curtseying that it is merely a gesture of respect to the nation that the person represents and a handshake is acceptable. One stands up when the President of the United States enters a room not because of the person but out of respect to the office he represents.