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  #441  
Old 04-11-2008, 05:22 AM
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I would address them as your majesty or your royal highness or whatever their style they hold but I would not bow or curstey to them being I am not one of their subjects.
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  #442  
Old 04-11-2008, 08:49 AM
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i would maybe make a small bow...
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  #443  
Old 04-11-2008, 11:30 AM
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I would address them as your majesty or your royal highness or whatever their style they hold but I would not bow or curstey to them being I am not one of their subjects.
One bows or curtseys as a measure of respect to the office, not the current holder of it. While historically it was about showing subservience, nowadays it is about respect, and it would be thoroughly gauche and boorish to refuse to do so.
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  #444  
Old 04-12-2008, 02:40 AM
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One bows or curtseys as a measure of respect to the office, not the current holder of it. While historically it was about showing subservience, nowadays it is about respect, and it would be thoroughly gauche and boorish to refuse to do so.

I would show respect by shaking their hand rather than a bow or curstey.
My respect is different towards them than yours and that is just the way it is.
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  #445  
Old 04-12-2008, 04:19 AM
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I would show respect by shaking their hand rather than a bow or curstey.
My respect is different towards them than yours and that is just the way it is.
One only shakes a sovereign's hand if it is offered.

Look at it this way:

In theatre, one shows respect by applauding.
In graveyards, one shows respect with quietness.
In the armed forces, one shows respect by saluting.
With royalty, one shows respect by bowing or curtseying.

It's all a matter of context, and while HM would never indicate in the slightest that she felt you were being rude, it really is inexcusably gauche to refuse to show respect in the appropriate way.
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  #446  
Old 04-12-2008, 04:32 AM
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I know I should only extend my hand upon them giving their hand first.
I am showing respect if they extend their hand to me I will humbly shake
their hand and might tilt my head but I still not not bow or curstey.
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  #447  
Old 04-12-2008, 04:33 AM
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In other words, you don't actually wish to show them respect in the appropriate way. That's your prerogative of course, but it's unspeakably rude.
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  #448  
Old 04-12-2008, 04:47 AM
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In other words, you don't actually wish to show them respect in the appropriate way. That's your prerogative of course, but it's unspeakably rude.
In your opinion that is disrespect to them not all royals see it that way you not
have to bow or cursety it depends on the person and the country.
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  #449  
Old 04-12-2008, 07:32 AM
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...but it's unspeakably rude.
As is being intolerant without cause or justification.

Curtsy or bow to whomever or whatever you like, though to chastise another because they do not share your view or the view of what really is an aristocratic observance, by origin, does not in turn make their jugdement or conviction any less warranted than your own.

In nowadays, it is an indaviduals personal decision if they wish to bow or curtsy to a reigning monarch or any member of their family. Upon briefing when awaiting an audience with the HM Queen Elizabeth II, those admitted into the presence are always advised (never told) that if you feel it appropriate, a bow or curtsy (bob) from the knee for the ladies or a bow from the neck by the gentleman is acceptable.

HM Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands does not observe such reverance (though if shown it, I'm sure is more than tolerant of it), and her mother, the late Princess Juliana abhorred it.

Though still customary in Denmark, it is just as common for HM Queen Margrethe II to greet and be greeted with a handshake. The same with her cousin, HM King Carl XVI Gustav and their good friend and relative, HM King Harald V.

It's not impolite, rather, is an entirely acceptable form of greeting at court and throughout society in general.
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  #450  
Old 04-12-2008, 07:36 AM
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In your opinion that is disrespect to them not all royals see it that way you not have to bow or cursety it depends on the person and the country.
I would have to assume that should you ever be in a position where a bow or a curtsey is de rigiour, you would be there by choice. And, having made that choice, it would be incumbent on you to follow the dictates of good manners.

Even the wife of the French President did not find it demeaning to curtsey to HM QEII. It showed respect and followed the dictates of exquisite good manners on that occasion. To do otherwise would have been, to quote PrinceOfCanada, unspeakably rude.
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  #451  
Old 04-12-2008, 08:10 AM
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It showed respect and followed the dictates of exquisite good manners on that occasion
It's interesting isn't it.

I found it inappropriate that the First Lady of France curtsied to the Queen of England. As a much younger and incredibly inexperienced (diplomatically speaking) lady I can empathise, if not think this breech of protocol, rather charming on Mrs Sarkozy's behalf.

Though as wife to the President of the French Republic it was not appropriate, no matter how exquisite such manners may have seemed. Mrs Sarkozy is a consort and consort's, along with their reigning spouses, do not observe, nor extend such veneration. And nor should they...
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  #452  
Old 04-12-2008, 04:53 PM
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I would have to assume that should you ever be in a position where a bow or a curtsey is de rigiour, you would be there by choice. And, having made that choice, it would be incumbent on you to follow the dictates of good manners.

Even the wife of the French President did not find it demeaning to curtsey to HM QEII. It showed respect and followed the dictates of exquisite good manners on that occasion. To do otherwise would have been, to quote PrinceOfCanada, unspeakably rude.
I said thsese numberous times and will continue to say this you do not need
to bow or curtsey it depends on which royal and what country.
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  #453  
Old 04-12-2008, 05:10 PM
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Well, it seems "bow and curtsey" can be seen also as a way to express ones respect.
I just saw a video of the opening of the new Opera in Oslo and a woman (no idea who she was... I guess a representative of the Opera) curtseyed to chancellor Merkel.

See it here:
Her ankommer de kongelige operafesten - Rampelys - VGTV
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  #454  
Old 04-12-2008, 05:23 PM
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Well, it seems "bow and curtsey" can be seen also as a way to express ones respect.
I just saw a video of the opening of the new Opera in Oslo and a woman (no idea who she was... I guess a representative of the Opera) curtseyed to chancellor Merkel.

See it here:
Her ankommer de kongelige operafesten - Rampelys - VGTV
I would give a liitle nod and just leave it at that.
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  #455  
Old 04-13-2008, 01:57 AM
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In other words, you don't actually wish to show them respect in the appropriate way. That's your prerogative of course, but it's unspeakably rude.
Yet most of the palaces don't see it that way, at least officially. In fact (at least in the case of Buckingham Palace), they speak about it and call it optional.
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  #456  
Old 04-13-2008, 01:59 AM
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Even the wife of the French President did not find it demeaning to curtsey to HM QEII. It showed respect and followed the dictates of exquisite good manners on that occasion. To do otherwise would have been, to quote PrinceOfCanada, unspeakably rude.
I'll follow the palace's advice, which invariably uses the word "optional" or some synonym of it. (And I would opt to do it)
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  #457  
Old 04-13-2008, 02:57 AM
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Yet most of the palaces don't see it that way, at least officially. In fact (at least in the case of Buckingham Palace), they speak about it and call it optional.
They call it optional so as to avoid the appearance of "you must do this or else". It's roughly as optional as showing up in a t-shirt when white tie is the dress code.
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  #458  
Old 04-13-2008, 05:18 AM
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I think that it was very charming of Madame Sarkozy to curtsey as well as being good manners. I hope that Mrs.Rudd (the Australian PM's wife) did the same, but probably not.

I also thought that Rudd's talk about our eventually becoming a republic was very rude, just before he met the Queen. He could have just said that it was up to the Australian people.
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  #459  
Old 04-13-2008, 05:48 AM
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I also thought that Rudd's talk about our eventually becoming a republic was very rude, just before he met the Queen. He could have just said that it was up to the Australian people.
Rude? Hardly.

Our Prime Minister answered the question's which were asked of him, and he did so without pretence. As I recall, he spoke very favourably of Her Majesty and conveyed a great many Australian's afffection for the Queen's dedication.

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They call it optional so as to avoid the appearance of "you must do this or else".
It isn't an autocracy.
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  #460  
Old 04-13-2008, 07:31 AM
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It's roughly as optional as showing up in a t-shirt when white tie is the dress code.
My you do have a way with words!

I have been thinking a little about the social customs we use when we all meet and greet, our families, friends, acquaintances. What a minefield.

Here in good old NZ most just shake hands. If we are really happy to see someone we just clasp our left hand over the clasped right hand.

If is family it's either an awkward peck on the cheek or a bear hug. If you acquire other nationalities in your family, well if they are Dutch . . . it's a continental peck to both cheeks once you've worked out whether you peck the left or the right cheek first.

And then, just to throw you, the Brazilian arm of the family arrives and you wonder which, if any, cheek you should peck, and in desparation resort to a peckky bear-hug!

The etiquette of bowing a curtsying is a no-brainer compared with that minefield!
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