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  #341  
Old 08-31-2007, 01:30 AM
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What are the differences between a man or women, on the way they bow or show curtsy?
Women generally curtsey, while men bow. But in Japan, men and women both bow I believe
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  #342  
Old 09-03-2007, 12:19 PM
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I remember being kind of shocked when I realised that when Charles and Diana had divorced, Diana would have to bow at the Royal Family. It must be so strange to do so when you've been part of the family...
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  #343  
Old 09-09-2007, 01:51 AM
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{reference to deleted photos removed - Elspeth}
I SAW THE FUNERAL OF PRINCESS DIANA, AND I REMEMBER THAT THE QUEEN AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE ROYAL FAMILY MADE A "CURTSY" WITH THEIR HEAD....I thought that the Queen didnt do that for anyone....
(I hope this is written right....my english is not very good!!)
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  #344  
Old 09-09-2007, 02:09 AM
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I think you confuse a nod with a curtsy. A curtsy is from the knees whereas a nod is from the neck. HM The Queen does not curtsy but she does bow her head
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  #345  
Old 09-09-2007, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
The fact that they do so, doesn't mean it's the norm. It's actually a mistake on their part, but albeit, a harmless one
Bowing on the part of a gentleman to ladies or even to other men is still done by many as a gesture of politesse.
Curtsying, however, on the part of a lady toward other ladies or men is not a gesture of politesse, but reflects recognition (not respect as some people argue in here) of someone else's superior rank or status.
Mrs. Chirac's curtsying to Queen Elizabeth was not just a mistake and harmless, but inappropriate for the following reason.

Mrs. Chirac knew and used to meet the Queen not in her capacity as a private citizen of France but as the wife of the President of the French Republic. All countries, as per United Nations' convention, are considered equal, no matter how powerful/less powerful or small/big they are, except for specific large countries that share the privilege of being permanent members of the Security Council (Conseil de Securite'). By the same token, Heads of States are also treated as equals, whether elected (presidents) or hereditary (monarchs). This also applies to diplomatic etiquette/protocol. Thus, Mrs. Chirac's curtsying to Queen Elizabeth was very inappropriate and in a sense humiliatory to France. But Mr Chirac and his wife had their own bizarre way of doing business!
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  #346  
Old 09-09-2007, 05:34 AM
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Thus, Mrs. Chirac's curtsying to Queen Elizabeth was very inappropriate and in a sense humiliatory to France
Can't recall it really making much of an impact in France, but there you go.

I actually found it quite charming to be honest.
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  #347  
Old 09-09-2007, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by BeatrixFan View Post
Indeed they do. Princess Anne, as with other female Royals, kisses the Queen on each cheek and then curtseys. She also refers to the Queen as "The Queen" and not as "Mummy" or "My Mother". It's protocol.
Within their inner-inner families and away from the public eye, that is, when not even a footman, valet, servant etc is present, they don't need to curtsy and some don't. Now, the British Royal Family has still a rather "stiff", old-style protocol and princess Anne may still be curtsying to her mother even when they are alone, just the two of them.
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  #348  
Old 09-09-2007, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
I think you confuse a nod with a curtsy. A curtsy is from the knees whereas a nod is from the neck. HM The Queen does not curtsy but she does bow her head
Yes, she did bow her head when Diana's coffin passed in front of the Royal family. Some say she bowed her head, not for Diana but for the image of death in fact. Honestly, I don't think that was the reason. IMO she did pay honour to Diana herself, not death.
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  #349  
Old 09-09-2007, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by adelaide View Post
I'm sure for the majority of American people that you are right.

But, you know, the WASP, for example are sometimes more strict for the courtesy towards the eldest than in Europe, and they courtesy exactly as we are doing it in Europe the living royal for the specific occasions when we are doing it.

I add that in some families, in France for instance, in GB too, we have yet some rules of courtesy as the " kiss hand " which is very refined way to greet a woman, even in a family where it's very respectul for a son to greet his mother like that . It's at all anachronic and I can say it's very elegant way to do.

I can add again that some Americain people in a some international circles , as diplomatic one, do the " Kiss hand ".:)
It is true that many people all over Europe and sophisticated Americans from New England and other old-historic parts of the USA are being taught to, and do, bow to ladies, senior people, statesmen in recognition of the office they hold etc etc. It is also true that many men still kiss ladies' hands. But these are done as a reverence or gesture of politesse or respect. Jacqueline Kennedy-Onassis, for instance, had taught John to bow deeply to senior (in office or age) personages and I remember once, while watching a White House State gala on TV, John Kennedy bowed deeply to Mrs Clinton and the guests. But bowing and kissing hands is very different from curtsying.

Curtsying has nothing to do with respect. It is done (and, in fact, used to be required) in recognition of, or to acknowledge, someone's superiority. Thus, curtsying is incompatible with the tenets of the American Constitution and I think that Glittering Tiaras made a very good point above. I agree with her completely. I would be very upset if my wife or daughter curtsied to anyone.
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  #350  
Old 09-09-2007, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Philippe Egalite' View Post
It is true that many people all over Europe and sophisticated Americans from New England and other old-historic parts of the USA are being taught to, and do, bow to ladies, senior people, statesmen in recognition of the office they hold etc etc. It is also true that many men still kiss ladies' hands. But these are done as a reverence or gesture of politesse or respect. Jacqueline Kennedy-Onassis, for instance, had taught John to bow deeply to senior (in office or age) personages and I remember once, while watching a White House State gala on TV, John Kennedy bowed deeply to Mrs Clinton and the guests. But bowing and kissing hands is very different from curtsying.

Curtsying has nothing to do with respect. It is done (and, in fact, used to be required) in recognition of, or to acknowledge, someone's superiority. Thus, curtsying is incompatible with the tenets of the American Constitution and I think that Glittering Tiaras made a very good point above. I agree with her completely. I would be very upset if my wife or daughter curtsied to anyone.
In the United States we do not bow to a current or former first lady. And there are many sophisticated Americans from all over my country...not just New England.
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  #351  
Old 09-09-2007, 06:54 AM
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Mrs Kennedy, if I recall, curtsied to HRH Prince Phillip, Duke of Edinburgh when he attended the State Funeral of John FK. Certainly a lady of class.
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Old 09-09-2007, 01:18 PM
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do you have the photo?
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  #353  
Old 09-10-2007, 03:27 AM
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No, unfortunately I do not...wish I did though!

If anyone ever comes across one or indeed, actual footage, please be sure to post it
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  #354  
Old 09-10-2007, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by TheTruth View Post
I remember being kind of shocked when I realised that when Charles and Diana had divorced, Diana would have to bow at the Royal Family. It must be so strange to do so when you've been part of the family...
Diana was not expected to curtsy to anyone but The Queen and The Queen Mother, just as she did throughout her marriage. She was the mother of a future king and The Queen granted her precedence at Court for royal and state occasions.
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  #355  
Old 09-10-2007, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Madame Royale View Post
Mrs Kennedy, if I recall, curtsied to HRH Prince Phillip, Duke of Edinburgh when he attended the State Funeral of John FK. Certainly a lady of class.
And she was questioned for doing so by the U.S. Chief of Protocol and her mother afterwards. She was the widow of The President of the United States and it was a breach of protocol.

Generally, it is considered a faux pas for Americans to bow or curtsey to royalty because the Constitution forbids all titles of nobility.
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  #356  
Old 09-10-2007, 06:41 PM
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And she was questioned for doing so by the U.S. Chief of Protocol and her mother afterwards. She was the widow of The President of the United States and it was a breach of protocol.
Whether she was questioned by the U.S Chief of Protocol or her meddling mother, for that matter, is of no concern to me or the way I view the occurrence. I think it was a lovely gesture payed by the former First Lady.
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  #357  
Old 09-10-2007, 10:23 PM
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CP Sonja curtsying to Queen Elizabeth II during her state visit to Norway in 1969.

August 9, 1969 in Molde, Norway: Picture

August 10, 1969 in Trondheim, Norway: Picture
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  #358  
Old 09-10-2007, 11:59 PM
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Cristina curtsying to Simeon of Bulgaria

(Reuters)
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  #359  
Old 09-13-2007, 11:35 PM
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If you scroll down this page, there is a photo of Princess Grace of Monaco curtseying to the Shah of Iran. Isn't this a breach of protocol? She was the consort of a sovereign herself.

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/impe...rsepolis3.html
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  #360  
Old 09-13-2007, 11:44 PM
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Maybe the fact he was an Emperor (that's what the word "Shah" meant) and she was a Princess is related in some way to the fact it was she who bowed in front of him...

Vanesa.
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