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  #2921  
Old 01-14-2018, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by W.Y.CII View Post
I think Mrs. Chirac, or other heads of state and their spouses, shouldn't bow/curtsy to other monarchs......but after all it's all about individual choice.
The former Premičre Dame, Madame Bernadette Chirac was just gallant. And.... her parents were a Chodron de Courcel (barons) and a Brondeau d'Urtičres (comtes), belonging to the French aristocracy.

That is not so unusual. Another still living Premičre Dame belongs to the nobility as well: Madame Anne-Aymone Giscard d'Estaing. Her parents were a Sauvage de Brantčs (marquises) and De Faucigny-Lucinge (princes).

Let us say: greeting the oldfashioned way is part of their milieu.
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  #2922  
Old 01-14-2018, 07:00 AM
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Indeed , but when the Noble Ladies of this Generation will pass away , it will be the end of courtsey.

The new Monarchs are modern people, married communors and I think for exemple that King Frederick and Queen Mary, Queen Victoria and Prince Daniel , King Charles and Queen Camilla will do it on a more simple and economic way.
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  #2923  
Old 01-14-2018, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The former Premičre Dame, Madame Bernadette Chirac was just gallant. And.... her parents were a Chodron de Courcel (barons) and a Brondeau d'Urtičres (comtes), belonging to the French aristocracy.

That is not so unusual. Another still living Premičre Dame belongs to the nobility as well: Madame Anne-Aymone Giscard d'Estaing. Her parents were a Sauvage de Brantčs (marquises) and De Faucigny-Lucinge (princes).

Let us say: greeting the oldfashioned way is part of their milieu.
I don't know they are aristocrats! Thanks for the information Duc_et_Pair.
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  #2924  
Old 01-14-2018, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by W.Y.CII View Post
I don't know they are aristocrats! Thanks for the information Duc_et_Pair.
Wasn't Giscard d'Estaing himself also from the French nobility ?
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  #2925  
Old 01-14-2018, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by W.Y.CII View Post
I don't know they are aristocrats! Thanks for the information Duc_et_Pair.
Even the former president Nicolas Sarkozy is an aristocrat. His father was Pál István Ernő Sárközy de Nagy-Bócsa. The Sárközys were elevated to the untitled nobility of Hungary on 10 September 1628. The family possessed an estate in the village of Alattyán, near Szolnok. Pál Sárközy’s father and grandfather held elective offices in the town of Szolnok. When the Red Army entered Hungary in 1944, the Sárközy family fled to Germany and later they settled in Paris. Their Hungarian estate was completely demolished. Nicolas Sarkozy was born in the French capital on the 28th of January 1955.
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  #2926  
Old 01-14-2018, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
That lady was the Speaker of the Second Chamber passing by while the Prime Minister was telephoning behind the coulisses. He saw the Speaker coming and -while continuing the telephone call- popped out of the coulisses and greeted her with a handkiss.
Doesn't grabbing a lady's hand and twisting her around destroy the gallantry of it all?
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  #2927  
Old 01-14-2018, 11:01 AM
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The Old nobililties and new nobllities of the Presidents of France are out of topic.
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  #2928  
Old 01-14-2018, 12:02 PM
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Doesn't grabbing a lady's hand and twisting her around destroy the gallantry of it all?
Yes. Isn't it an odd picture? Strange impression conveyed: talking on the phone while doing so, no less. Was it that important to make a political moment? Looks a bit compulsive. Then, too, they both could have been laughing. Might have been an in-joke. We'll never know.
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  #2929  
Old 01-14-2018, 12:04 PM
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I was just reading about the Queen's coronation and her curtsey to the people. I found it in this video at 6:28. Apologies if this has been shared before; I was really curious to see what this looked like!
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  #2930  
Old 01-14-2018, 12:22 PM
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I was just reading about the Queen's coronation and her curtsey to the people. I found it in this video at 6:28. Apologies if this has been shared before; I was really curious to see what this looked like!
Not an impressive curtsy, given the deep ones I've seen on this thread. Almost perfunctory, not so?
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  #2931  
Old 01-14-2018, 12:30 PM
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Almost perfunctory, not so?
It is more of a 'receptive acknowledgement' of a curtsey, as distinct from an obeisance of a curtsey.
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  #2932  
Old 01-14-2018, 01:04 PM
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I purposefully posted it to show it as en exemplar of an acceptable curtsey in the UK. It's a great illustration of the practice back in the day when it meant something profound on a day when it was most profound.

I personally believe HM is far less into the depth of the curtsey than many of us here appear to want her to be.

I also think the standard differs by country and by individual (both giver and receiver of the honor). It is very different across Europe.

I also believe that there have been very deep curtesies in the past which were intended by the giver as a way to draw attention to themselves, rather to mostly give honor to the recipient. I'm a bit cynical that way.

But I now know absolutely, how I would curtsey to Elizabeth II and I am quite certain, she would be sanguine about my effort!
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  #2933  
Old 01-14-2018, 01:21 PM
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Considering the weight of all the ceremonial robes and the crown, I'm impressed that the Queen was able to pull off any kind of a curtsy at all. That had to play a big part in just how low of a curtsy she could do at the time.
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  #2934  
Old 01-14-2018, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Considering the weight of all the ceremonial robes and the crown, I'm impressed that the Queen was able to pull off any kind of a curtsy at all. That had to play a big part in just how low of a curtsy she could do at the time.
It's a shadow of curtsies that are being shown here on this thread. In fact, it's unclear to me what she is actually doing. Is she leaning back on one leg? It was not a 'going down'. Not really. I would be interested to see any curtsy she has given when she was princess (and not Queen). Anyone have that handy?

A real curtsey seems to be a direct down and up. That's not what she did. She did bow her head very clearly.

At 2:40 the curtsey is demonstrated.
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  #2935  
Old 01-15-2018, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
It's a shadow of curtsies that are being shown here on this thread. In fact, it's unclear to me what she is actually doing. Is she leaning back on one leg? It was not a 'going down'. Not really. I would be interested to see any curtsy she has given when she was princess (and not Queen). Anyone have that handy?
Here you are.

1:45 to Q Juliana,
1:28 to K Haakon, and another photo
0:38 to Q Ingrid

Unfortunately none of these video/photo shows her both legs. (I think she had curtsied to her parent in her wedding? but I can't find any photo)

Bowing is not always necessary? They sometimes just keep talking while curtsying .
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  #2936  
Old 01-15-2018, 02:20 AM
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Thank you, W.Y.CII. In one instance the down and up was very clear (and very, very fast), nothing like what she did at her coronation (imo). Interesting. I don't think she's a fan of the curtsy, at least for herself.
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  #2937  
Old 01-15-2018, 05:43 AM
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As I said Lady Nimue, HMQ's curtsey at her Coronation was an 'acknowledgement' to the assembled company, and intended as such, not an obeisance, since she outranked every single person in the Abbey that day.
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  #2938  
Old 01-15-2018, 06:16 AM
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Thanks you so much.
Princess Elisabeth courtseys Queen Juliana, King Haakon and the King and Queen of denmark.
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  #2939  
Old 01-15-2018, 06:54 AM
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To the ladies (Juliana and Ingrid): a kis and then the knees down.
To the gentlemen (Haakon and Frederik): the knees down only.

These days we can see that the gentlemen are also kissed.

King Felipe

And King Willem-Alexander:

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  #2940  
Old 01-15-2018, 08:38 AM
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At the State Visit to Denmark Queen Mathilde wanted to give a second kiss to Queen Margarethe and it failed...
So one kiss is enough.
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