The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #2741  
Old 09-16-2017, 11:30 PM
Lady Nimue's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pacific Palisades, United States
Posts: 3,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
This is a thread about royal protocol, specifically bowing and curtseying. How is it that we are arguing as to whether particular Princes, Princesses, or Queens are deserving of said practice by virtue of their birth?
I think the conversation applies. It's about shifting protocols.

In this I have to agree with the gist of @Duc_et_Pair 's points. The bow and curtsey have a history. It does make sense that the custom applies to those born into that history (when conducting official functions out of that history).

For those not so born, it is not just vaguely, but overtly, strange, to have done to one. It 'makes sense' in other contexts where the action is done to the office held, like with the Pope. Still, it remains a medieval custom, and few moderns would find it comfortable. JMO.
__________________

__________________
Russian National Anthem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGoNaLjQrV8
O Magnum Mysterium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWU7dyey6yo
Reply With Quote
  #2742  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:58 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 12,545
https://www.facebook.com/detdanskeko...1622644176321/

Mary forgetting to curtsy to the Emperor of Japan while Frederik is bowing all over the place.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2743  
Old 10-12-2017, 03:22 AM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 6,935
I don't know what the context was but even Fred looked funny when he stepped up to shake hands and bow to the Emperor. It looked like he was waiting for a cue and then positively bounced up to take his hand.

Mary showed that even after all this time when the tension and expectations are high, you can still blow it. I think she probably had it all set in her mind and he broke her concentration when he spoke to her. She recovered beautifully when she shook hands, curtseyed and did the double peck to the Empress.

Actually, I think that was a true royal culture crash and I use that word advisedly. Royals generally follow the handshake, bow/curtsey and double peck but when you come to Japan their customary greeting is to bow which is why I think Fred too had the same mindset as Mary but hey, when he correctly bowed European style and shook hands, he got a pass and to be honest, he looked like he was saying "Yeeees!!!!" to himself when he pulled that off.
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #2744  
Old 10-12-2017, 03:30 AM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,949
They both seemed to let their nerves get to them. Her not bowing, him bowing repeatedly both were a bit odd at best. I'd think a born royal like Fred, who has been doing this for decades, would be a tad less nervous.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2745  
Old 10-12-2017, 03:52 AM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 6,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady Nimue View Post
I think the conversation applies. It's about shifting protocols.

In this I have to agree with the gist of @Duc_et_Pair 's points. The bow and curtsey have a history. It does make sense that the custom applies to those born into that history (when conducting official functions out of that history).

For those not so born, it is not just vaguely, but overtly, strange, to have done to one. It 'makes sense' in other contexts where the action is done to the office held, like with the Pope. Still, it remains a medieval custom, and few moderns would find it comfortable. JMO.
The Queen mother was not royal until her marriage when she became HRH The Duchess of York, so to Diana when she became HRH The Princess of Wales. That they came from aristocratic families is irrelevant. The same applies to HRH Queen Silvia, HRH Queen Sonja, HRH Queen Mathilde, HRH Queen Maxima, HRH Queen Letizia, HRH GD Maria Teresa, HRH CP Mary, HRH CP Mette Marit, HRH Prince Daniel, HRH HGD Stephanie, et al.

There would be times when a bow or curtsey is the only polite action to take and there is no way civility would encourage anyone to decide whether the recipient was deserving of that mark of respect to their position. It has been said that true majesty isn’t determined by one’s background, but by one’s character.
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #2746  
Old 10-18-2017, 01:06 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 5,998
Baroness Brady of Knightsbridge curtseys to The Duke of Cambridge at today’s Coach Core engagement

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMbpFUjX...jpg&name=large
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2747  
Old 10-18-2017, 01:08 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Torrance, United States
Posts: 3,409
Totally off topic...I want her plum coat!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2748  
Old 10-18-2017, 01:10 PM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 7,484
That's the FIRST thing I thought when I clicked on the photo too!
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice". Martin Luther King Jr. 1929-1968
Reply With Quote
  #2749  
Old 10-18-2017, 01:39 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Hamilton, Canada
Posts: 579
In my opinion, curtsies should only be performed when wearing skirts or dresses.


Sent from my iPod touch using The Royals Community
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2750  
Old 10-18-2017, 02:07 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Torrance, United States
Posts: 3,409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
That's the FIRST thing I thought when I clicked on the photo too!
Great minds think alike and I'm so glad that we have our priorities straight!!! MUST FIND COAT!!!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2751  
Old 10-18-2017, 02:39 PM
JSH JSH is offline
Commoner
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Las Vegas, United States
Posts: 35
I have a question and sorry if it has been discussed or answered earlier in this forum.

A very deep curtsy with the hand held by the person being curtsyed to. Such as the Princess Royal did recently to Queen Letizia.

Is this special type of curtsy? All the pictures I can find show it being done by female royals of one nation to the monarch or spouse of monarch of another nation.

It is not the usual quick bob we see UK citizens doing to their own royalty or BRF members doing to HM.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2752  
Old 10-18-2017, 02:43 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Torrance, United States
Posts: 3,409
AFAIK it is merely based upon the customs of a particular court. I've observed curtsy that you've described being performed by the royal ladies in Spain and Denmark. The British royals tend to perform a bob. Other royal houses ie: the Netherlands no longer perform them at home, but I've seen it done when they're abroad.

I hope this helps.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2753  
Old 10-26-2017, 02:08 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bandung, Indonesia
Posts: 101
Members of the Thailand's Royal Family curtsey to Queens Silvia, Maxima, Mathilde & Sofia.

https://youtu.be/YyXM320PNZU
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2754  
Old 10-26-2017, 02:45 PM
Nice Nofret's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 541
the deep one (with or without the hand held) is an official court curtsie - the bob is an abbreviation - which is commenly used.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2755  
Old 10-26-2017, 08:34 PM
MARG's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
Posts: 6,935
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
I have a question and sorry if it has been discussed or answered earlier in this forum.

A very deep curtsy with the hand held by the person being curtsyed to. Such as the Princess Royal did recently to Queen Letizia.

Is this special type of curtsy? All the pictures I can find show it being done by female royals of one nation to the monarch or spouse of monarch of another nation.

It is not the usual quick bob we see UK citizens doing to their own royalty or BRF members doing to HM.
It's a good question. The very deep curtsey is usually performed by one royal to another. Probably the first curtsey CP Mette Marit made to HM was amazing as was Infanta Elena's.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--vHtfKKk40...zabeth+II..jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wyTGLZ7r9Y...ena+to+EII.jpg

The very deep curtseys are mostly seen when women are wearing longer skirts or evening gowns. Curtsying low in a very short dress can look really awkward unless you are used to it. HM's daughter and granddaughters all go deep regardless. Camilla and Catherine, not so much. Q Margrethe's daughters-in-law who also go low.
https://www.pinterest.nz/pin/82753711885563875/
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...Vfs43KeMCJ5WVi

For those who, in the normal course of their lives, would have no need to curtsy, some give it their best shot.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...BrciDdBKb2rtki
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...f4BXLa_JBZYzdf

And when it's just the cousins . . . https://www.pinterest.nz/pin/417216352952939660/
__________________
MARG
"Words ought to be a little wild, for they are assaults of thoughts on the unthinking." - JM Keynes
Reply With Quote
  #2756  
Old 10-27-2017, 02:28 AM
JSH JSH is offline
Commoner
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Las Vegas, United States
Posts: 35
Thanks for your answers. They are very helpful.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2757  
Old 10-27-2017, 03:54 AM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: 。, Hong Kong
Posts: 83
It seems the British has a different curtsey style? They usually places their right leg behind the left leg (like Sophie's), while the others just put their right leg backward (see Marie's).

It looks quite difficult to balance to me
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2758  
Old 10-27-2017, 06:09 AM
HMQueenElizabethII's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Ryde, Australia
Posts: 3,786
Not all of the Princesses performed the curtsey to Queen Sofia. Was it because she no longer Queen Consort? As I remember once a monarch, always a monarch.
__________________
"God save our Gracious Queen,
Long live our Noble Queen,
God save The Queen"
God save Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II
Reply With Quote
  #2759  
Old 10-27-2017, 06:12 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 7,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by HMQueenElizabethII View Post
Not all of the Princesses performed the curtsey to Queen Sofia. Was it because she no longer Queen Consort? As I remember once a monarch, always a monarch.
Doña Sofía was never a monarch (= a sovereign head of state in a monarchy).
Don Juan Carlos is no monarch anymore.

But they are treated as former monarchs. It is not needed to be King or Queen. See Princess Beatrix (or before her: Princess Juliana and Princess Wilhelmina) who always were treated as a former monarch indeed, despite reverting to their princely titles after abdication.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2760  
Old 10-27-2017, 06:24 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bandung, Indonesia
Posts: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by HMQueenElizabethII View Post
Not all of the Princesses performed the curtsey to Queen Sofia. Was it because she no longer Queen Consort? As I remember once a monarch, always a monarch.

And they performed the curtsey as well to the current Governor-General of Australia.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
birthday british royal history carl gustaf chris o'neill crown princess mary crown princess victoria crown princess victoria hats current events denmark duchess of brabant duchess of cambridge earl of snowdon family general news grand duke henri hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume infanta cristina infanta leonor infanta sofia iñaki urdangarín jewels king felipe king felipe vi king philippe king willem-alexander letizia liechtenstein lord snowdon love monarchy monarchy versus republic news official visit paris prince alexander prince carl philip prince daniel prince felix prince gabriel prince harry prince harry of wales prince nicholas prince oscar princess beatrice princess claire of luxembourg princess estelle princess leonore princess madeleine princess of asturias princess sofia princess victoria queen elizabeth ii queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen silvia question soderberg spanish royal family state visit stephanie sweden swedish royal family victoria zog



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:32 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises