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  #21  
Old 01-30-2013, 04:48 AM
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Abdication would reduce Britain's monarchy to a cheap popularity contest | Mail Online
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  #22  
Old 01-30-2013, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
BBC News is chatting abdication this morning, and most people say no when asked, however a lot of people say IF Elizabeth abdicates and Charles within the same day or week, and William was King people would accept that.

We have a Dutch Royal Correspondent on the news who explains that the word 'abdication' means something totally different in Holland than in the UK.
That clearly shows it's not the idea of abdication at a certain age itself which people dislike. I think in the UK the problem is the heir who is already old and not very popular and married to a woman who many don't want to see in this position. If Charles died tommorrow and William was the heir IMO many people would say: 61 years are enough, Lizzy. Take a well deserved rest.

And I think the abdication of Edward VIII is something out of history books for most and can't at all be compared with abdication due to age after a dedicated reign.

Regarding "cheap popularity contest": The "Charles" problem again. Willem-Alexander is not more popular than his mother nor was Beatrix more popular than her mother Juliana when she took over the throne.

Btw, out of all the other monarchies I could imagine that Norway might follow the Dutch example. They seem more modern than others.
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  #23  
Old 01-30-2013, 11:29 AM
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Great article and I think it pretty much sums up how I feel about the issue!
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  #24  
Old 01-30-2013, 04:21 PM
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Cheap popularity contest - isn't that already in full swing, with lots of folks wanting Charles to step aside for William? Why would it not be OK for HM to abdicate, but it would be OK for Charles to do so? Sounds like a popularity contest to me.
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  #25  
Old 01-30-2013, 04:55 PM
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To me this isn't (and it shouldn't) be a popularity contest.

I believe it would be sensible if the next generation of monarchs start to abdicate around the normal retirement age in their respective countries.

If say the current CP's, who are on average around 40-45, abdicate when they are around 75. I.e. on average about 35 years from now.
Then their heirs will be around 40-45 when they get on the throne, giving them about 35 years to reign, before they are replaced by their own children.

The considerable increased lifespan we can expect in this century, will mean that most heirs will be old before they will get on the throne. We may eventually see monarchs reign for 60-80 years on average, before they die of old age. With heirs who face the daunting prospect of not knowing whether they will have to wait most of their lives before becoming a monarch themselves. Is that healthy or beneficial?
By systematically abdicating, the heirs will ascend the throne when they are in their prime, health and energy wise and with enough maturity to cope with the job.

From a more human point of view, it would also provide a more gradual transition and the heirs will avoid the dreaded: the king is dead, long live the king tradition, where they will be monarchs alright, but at the same time have lost a parent.

Wouldn't it also be a benefit if you as a new monarch can go to your abdicated parent and ask for guidance or simply to unload?
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  #26  
Old 01-30-2013, 05:29 PM
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Well this is the 4th Dutch abdication and so far the other European Kings and Queens haven't really taken to the idea. I see no reason for them to decide now to change how they look at their positions. This debate happens every time a Dutch monarch decides they want to retire, the same endless stories about how this queen or that king should step aside and let the younger generation take over, blah, blah , blah.
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  #27  
Old 01-30-2013, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
. This debate happens every time a Dutch monarch decides they want to retire, the same endless stories about how this queen or that king should step aside and let the younger generation take over, blah, blah , blah.
I can not imagine such a debate happened in other countries when the previous Dutch monarchs abdicated.

King Willem I abdicated in 1840 as he was disappointed with the loss of Belgium, parlament was fed up with him, and because he wanted to conduct a morganatic marriage to a catholic countess from his former territories.

Queen Wilhelmina abdicated in 1948, as one of the first monarchs since emperor Charles V (whose reasons for abdicating inspired her) to do so voluntarily & without pressure.

Queen Juliana abdicated in 1980 when most monarchs were in the prime of their lives & had young heirs (except in Norway).

So I doubt there was much debate in other countries to presure their monarchs to follow the Dutch example.

However, since it is a simple fact that demography has changed over the decades and the average age in (Western & Southern) Europe is around 84, it means that most monarchs will succeed around 64, which should be around the average retirement age in Europe. To ask some questions about the logic of that isn't that odd. I find the situation far from ideal TBH.
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  #28  
Old 01-30-2013, 08:39 PM
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I believe in the 80s there was the usual blah blah blah in the UK at least about how nice it would be for QEII to retire and let the glamourous Prince and Princess of Wales take the throne because they were young and popular etc.
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  #29  
Old 01-30-2013, 09:19 PM
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I think it had less to do with what the queen may or may not have thought about Princess Diana (and let's not speculate on that), but more to do with this quote:

Quote:
I declare before you all that my whole life whether it be long or short shall be devoted to your service and the service of our great imperial family to which we all belong.
Princess Elizabeth's 21st Birthday Address
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  #30  
Old 01-30-2013, 10:02 PM
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I see King Albert II abdicating in favor of the Duke of Brabant in a near future. So we'll have this three Monarchies (The Netherlands, Luxembourg and Belgium) with the abdication tradition.

But, the other Monarchies will not follow this example.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:12 AM
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I've deleted off topic and speculative posts regarding the Diana/Charles divorce...since the Queen didn't abdicate, their divorce adds nothing to the discussion.
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  #32  
Old 01-31-2013, 12:29 AM
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If you abdicate in favor or a younger person (40-45), you end up with young children of the monarch who take 2nd or 3rd place after their parents’ duties. Princess Anne and Prince Charles both talked about being overlooked during their mother’s early years as Queen.

People are marrying later & having children in their 30's & 40's so small children of the King and Queen may look cute but behind the scene the kids might not be getting the attention they deserve.
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  #33  
Old 03-21-2013, 08:25 PM
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I think they are making a great correction to ages. The monarch needs small grandchildren, not children. Williams's children not having a parent as a monarch until they are in there 20's or 30's will be great for them.
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  #34  
Old 05-03-2013, 04:06 AM
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It's never too late to learn something about your own monarchy

Apparently in Belgium a King cannot decide on his own to abdicate. The government has to agree.

As 2014 is a big election year in Belgium, it is expected that if Albert would ever abdicate it will certainly not happen before those elections and formation of the new government (and that can take a really loooooonnnngggg time).
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post
So we'll have this three Monarchies (The Netherlands, Luxembourg and Belgium) with the abdication tradition.
if i am not wrong, the last belgian monarch who abdicated was forced to do so for political reasons (pl. correct me if not). So is it really a "tradition" there?
So it leaves only the Netherlands, where "Kings/Queens" abdicate..
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  #36  
Old 05-03-2013, 04:37 AM
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The one and only Belgian abdication was Leopold III who was forced to abdicate after he surrended to Nazi pressure in WWII. I wouldn't count one abdication as a tradition.
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  #37  
Old 05-03-2013, 04:48 AM
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Leopold III didn't abdicate under Nazi pressure.
He abdicated in 1950 after a political crisis known as the Royal Question and under pressure of his own people.

I would place that abdication in the same rank as that of Edward VIII: exceptional circumstances.
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Old 05-03-2013, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdm View Post
Leopold III didn't abdicate under Nazi pressure.
He abdicated in 1950 after a political crisis known as the Royal Question and under pressure of his own people.

I would place that abdication in the same rank as that of Edward VIII: exceptional circumstances.
I have altered my post accordingly,
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  #39  
Old 05-03-2013, 05:33 AM
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Has the Prince of Wales ever made a declaration such as the one the Queen made on her 21st birthday?
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  #40  
Old 05-03-2013, 06:19 AM
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I dont think so..But his dedication and commitment is no less compared to his mother. Just that hers is very passive (just sit tight, never put a foot wrong), so there's nothing to find fault with, while his is very active (do as much as you can for the people) so there is always a division of opinion..
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