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  #281  
Old 08-16-2005, 10:07 AM
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thanks agm and others for the pics.
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  #282  
Old 08-16-2005, 02:13 PM
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Princess is a 24/7 job

Quote:
Originally Posted by nokklav
well probably ahe should have not smoked in public...but i guess she was on holiday there...in her private time and those were paparazzi shots. it's not like lighting a cigarette during a meeting with official photographers taking photos of her....
Yes, true. But she is a public figure, a national symbol. National symbols don't really have holidays. That is total fiction but let say she would be photographed topless on holidays, she could not say 'well I was on holidays, not on public duties'. I know it's silly but I hope you get my point. She can do whatever she wants as long it's behind closed doors.
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  #283  
Old 08-16-2005, 02:23 PM
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I don't know if it has been mentioned... but Sir Angus Ogilvy, who died of throat cancer on Dec. 26, was a smoker and patron of a cancer charity in the UK.
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  #284  
Old 08-16-2005, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandria
Maxima smoking on a patio in the open air with baby Eloise in her mother's arms across the table is really no different than a complete stranger sitting right behind Laurentien and smoking. From the images, both Maxima and Willem were smoking and neither were blowing it directly at Eloise.
One would hope that a complete stranger would have more common sense! I used to smoke socially (and still do socially from time-to-time), and I would never smoke around young children, no matter who they belonged to! Most of the adults smokers I know wouldn't/don't either. Whether they are blowing in her direction or not doesn't really make a difference because the smoke is in the air around them. If I'm smoking outside on the patio you can smell it up in the third floor bedroom if the window is open. Smoke travels.
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  #285  
Old 08-16-2005, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
If it were not an addiction, then she would be able to control it by not smoking, now wouldn't she?
Er, what? Sorry, I can't make sense of your sentence. I think what your're trying to say/ask is that if she wasn't addicted she would have displayed more self-control? Well, AFAIC, she could have left the table and smoked elswhere, chewed the nicotine gum (many people who are going to be around infants carry it with them -- or at least those who have enough sense to be prepared), or she could have just waited. Believe it or not nic fits do go away after a few minutes. I know from firsthand experience! And even the worst chain smokers have some self-control.

Quote:
Sure it would be great for Maxima to be a great symbol of all that is good and virtuous and be as close to perfect as possible, but she isn't. I think that we forget sometimes that royal though the may be, they are still human beings behind closed doors and are entitled and subject to vices as the rest of us in the world.
Frankly, I don't care whether she's royal or not. That has nothing to do with it. Anyone with an iota of common sense knows not to smoke around an infant, whether 'blowing' in their direction or not. She isn't entitled to do it just because she's on holidays.

Moreoever, I certainly don't expect pefection from anyone, and I have no problem with her smoking ( although I do think she is setting a poor example for the girls who look up to her). Rather, it is the time and place that is of issue here.

Finally, I could really care less about her vices behind closed doors, as long as she has the common sense & self-control not to carry them out in the immediate vicinity of her young children or those of others.
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  #286  
Old 08-16-2005, 05:13 PM
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I don't know, I may be way out on left field in this one, but maybe we are dealing with cultural differences here, when referring to Maxima.

Perhaps, she is still adjusting to life in the Netherlands. Attitudes about smoking may have been a little more laid back in Argentina. Not all cultures think the way we do. And even within our own societies, things change relatively quickly. In the mid-1970s when I was little, I remember sitting on my father's lap trying to catch the "smoke rings" he was making, with my mouth! I think that was considered acceptable behaviour back then.

Today, we ourselves are doing things that our children in 10 or 15 years will likely consider "stupid". (for e.g. using pesticides on lawns, overuse of antibiotics, heavy intake of trans fats, etc.)
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  #287  
Old 08-16-2005, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel
Yes, true. But she is a public figure, a national symbol. National symbols don't really have holidays. That is total fiction but let say she would be photographed topless on holidays, she could not say 'well I was on holidays, not on public duties'. I know it's silly but I hope you get my point. She can do whatever she wants as long it's behind closed doors.
For me this is so strange as we do not have the same smoking-gestapo as they have in America. Let the woman do whatever is legally allowed in her free time as long as she represents the nation with dignity while she is on duty. Sitting across a table while blowing smoke in the air is not harmfull for a baby, the cars which were passing the terrace did her probably more harm. So instead of being so hysterical with smoking lets start with different things, for example get the no1 poluter (US) in the world to respect SOME international agreements, which will be more benificial for the health of our children and little Eloise then Maxima putting away her cigarete.

And if anybody wants to attack ANY royal on smoking please start with Queen Margarethe II who does it even at official functions.
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  #288  
Old 08-16-2005, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
For me this is so strange as we do not have the same smoking-gestapo as they have in America.
Excellent point Marengo! I'm sure you are a bit more laid back about these things in Europe than we uptight North Americans are. We have to remember we all come from different cultures with differing values, customs, etc. Thank goodness - otherwise what a bland world it would be.
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  #289  
Old 08-17-2005, 12:43 AM
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I'm not so sure it's a cultural thing as it is simply a matter of health. Certainly, there is not the same stigma attached to smoking in Europe as there is in North America, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time before that starts to change. More and more we all get the same information about the hazards of smoking.
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  #290  
Old 08-17-2005, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
For me this is so strange as we do not have the same smoking-gestapo as they have in America. Let the woman do whatever is legally allowed in her free time as long as she represents the nation with dignity while she is on duty. Sitting across a table while blowing smoke in the air is not harmfull for a baby, the cars which were passing the terrace did her probably more harm. So instead of being so hysterical with smoking lets start with different things, for example get the no1 poluter (US) in the world to respect SOME international agreements, which will be more benificial for the health of our children and little Eloise then Maxima putting away her cigarete.

And if anybody wants to attack ANY royal on smoking please start with Queen Margarethe II who does it even at official functions.
Well, I for one am not criticizing Maxima's smoking per se. Rather, I am critical of the time and place, given the company she was in. And it is well known that second hand smoke *is* harmful. In fact, it is even more so than filtered smoke.

The fact that there were cars in the area or that the US doesn't respect some international agreements etc., does not negate or excuse Maxima's behaviour. We could all use such arguments to justify our bad behaviour. The bottom line is that we all have to do our part & take responsibility for our actions. Royals included.
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  #291  
Old 08-17-2005, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean.~
Well, I for one am not criticizing Maxima's smoking per se. Rather, I am critical of the time and place, given the company she was in. And it is well known that second hand smoke *is* harmful. In fact, it is even more so than filtered smoke.

The fact that there were cars in the area or that the US doesn't respect some international agreements etc., does not negate or excuse Maxima's behaviour. We could all use such arguments to justify our bad behaviour. The bottom line is that we all have to do our part & take responsibility for our actions. Royals included.
I am not justifying anything as I find smoking a filthy habit, but some posters here were getting so hysterical, as if Maxima was killing Eloise. I wanted to remind them that there are other things outside smoking which at that moment were more harmfull to Laurentiens child then Maxima and her cigarette on the other side of the table.
Even more so, Laurentien and Constantijn are the parents of the baby, so it is their responsibility, if they thought it such a terrible threat to their child they could have asked Maxima to stop or they could have left the table.
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  #292  
Old 08-17-2005, 04:14 AM
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sorry I have a question,

yesterday another member used the word hystirical just as you do too and you referred to the "smoking gestapo".

Who are they in this forum because as far as I can read we were just exchanging our viewpoints in a civilezed manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
I am not justifying anything as I find smoking a filthy habit, but some posters here were getting so hysterical, as if Maxima was killing Eloise. I wanted to remind them that there are other things outside smoking which at that moment were more harmfull to Laurentiens child then Maxima and her cigarette on the other side of the table.
Even more so, Laurentien and Constantijn are the parents of the baby, so it is their responsibility, if they thought it such a terrible threat to their child they could have asked Maxima to stop or they could have left the table.
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  #293  
Old 08-17-2005, 04:44 AM
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I used smoking gestapo for the agressive anti smoking lobby. I have never touched one cigarette in my life but I think that it is to much to consider smoking almost as a crime as many people do these days. These people use the argument that it is so damaging for their health, which is true...BUT there are other things which are mch more harmfull but which they do not pay the least attention to as the probably benifit from them as well (driving a big and polluting car for example), I cannot stand this kind of hypocricy. I would like to make it quite clear that I did not refer to any poster with that term (which my message is not implying) but to anti smoking groups in general.

Hysterical might be a bit to much indeed, you are correct about that, but I will try to rephrase it. Some posters were overreacting and accusing Maxima of all sort of terrible things, just because she smoked, which is in my eyes is quite unfair.
If anybody feels offended by any of my posts on this matter I apologise as that was not the intention.
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  #294  
Old 08-17-2005, 07:32 AM
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In a puff of smoke

Quote:
Originally Posted by susan alicia
sorry I have a question,

yesterday another member used the word hystirical just as you do too and you referred to the "smoking gestapo".

Who are they in this forum because as far as I can read we were just exchanging our viewpoints in a civilezed manner.
Hi Susan Alicia!
I guess you are referring to one of my post. Well if you go to the beginning of this tread and read all the messages, you'll see really heated messages (no personal attacks or incivilities of this kind) but clearly strong words. Royal who smoke are 'disgusting', should 'be ashamed', are doing a 'terrible thing'. Also this smileys '', '' abound.
That's what I mean by 'hysteric'. I also totally agree with Marengo that the US attitude on tobacco has nothing to do with the EU one (but we're going more and more on that direction).
IMO, smoking is not that big deal, if you wish to destroy your health, go with it. I'm more sensitive to the issue of who is paying when the smokers eventually get what they were looking for (a nice little cancer), or woman smoking during pregnancy for example.
But a lot of people (and that tread prove it) think that smokers are evil people (literally). So I still maintain that Maxima should avoid smoking in public (fact 1) and less than 3kms next to a kid (fact 2). It's just basic PR.
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  #295  
Old 08-17-2005, 06:18 PM
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I feel as if I should throw my two cents in! :p But, it seems that people have a negative outlook on Maxima just because she is smoking infront of a baby. Yes, I do agree that smoking infront of a baby is definetly wrong and should not be done, but should she be judged because of that? Also, is she puffing on the cigarette and blowing the smoke in the baby's face? I honestly don't think so. It just seems that Maxima is being judged as evil and practically a murderer when she is only smoking a cigarette. Wether it is wrong or not, she should not be judged by this action. That's my own opinion, and I apologize if anyone is offended.
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  #296  
Old 08-18-2005, 05:20 AM
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yeah guys, yes she shouldnt smoke in front of her babies and yes it would be better if she didnt smoke in public but other than that, forget everything else about her!!! she is maybe not the best royal princess but lets forget it now!!!
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  #297  
Old 08-20-2005, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rchainho
here you have 2 more from Juan Carlos in rex features. Maybe pdas or other member can put them bigger?!?
Here they are..

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  #298  
Old 08-21-2005, 02:25 AM
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he is smoking a cigar in the first picture, perhaps a case of older and wiser.

They are less unhealthy than cigarettes because they do not inhale the smoke and a small amount of cigars satisfies the smoker in comparison to the amount of cigarettes. (So I have heard at least)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdas1201
Here they are..
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  #299  
Old 08-21-2005, 09:37 AM
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thanks pdas for the photos. You are lovely! Keep posting the larger photos ok?
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  #300  
Old 08-21-2005, 01:09 PM
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2 more of caroline of monaco (rex features).
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