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  #401  
Old 08-30-2017, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
So was Diana a commoner. Fergie's family had no title but she's related to various titled people.. She's landed gentry...
Why do you think Diana is considered 'a commoner' when she's descended from the Spencers (who were at one time royals)? EDIT: okay correction, Diana is related illegitimately to the House of Stuart (via Charles II & his mistress Barbara Villiers). Diana's father was an Earl and her title/name was Lady Diana Spencer. She was part of the nobility or aristocracy, which is just below royalty. Diana's family is more British than the British royal family (whose descent is largely German).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_family
"The Spencer family is one of Britain's preeminent aristocratic families..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social...United_Kingdom
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  #402  
Old 08-30-2017, 09:23 PM
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I think, technically, that everyone who isn't born into the BRF is considered a commoner. I agree that the Spencers are an old and very prominent aristocratic family but they weren't once Kings. More Northamptonshire sheep farmers! Like most quite old aristo families they have royal blood in the family from Charles II (who sired quite a lot of illegitimate children) and on the distaff side I believe James II, but that blood came from advantageous marriages as the Spencers went up in the world and made their mark in national life.
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Old 08-30-2017, 09:45 PM
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Read the history of the Spencer family that I linked above. Winston Churchill is a related member of the Spencer clan as well.

Also @Denville's reference to Fergie being from 'landed gentry.' So what? So is Camilla from the 'landed gentry' class, which is below the aristocracy/nobility.

And yes, the Spencers are aristocrats who are related to royalty via illegitimate ancestors:
"Today's Spencers are direct descendants, albeit illegitimate, of the House of Stuart, with the family boasting at least five lines of direct descent from the Stuarts; and from them, the Spencers can trace their ancestry to other royal houses such as the Bourbons, the Medicis, the Wittelsbachs, the Hanovers, the Sforzas, the Habsburgs, and the Houses of Howard and Boleyn through Mary Boleyn, Mistress of Henry VIII of England."

Also the term 'commoner' in the U.K. refers to "a person who is not born into a position of high social rank." That absolutely does not describe Diana or her family! She was not born of royalty, but she was a member of the aristocracy/nobility. The ancestors who began as sheep farmers is not recent. It's very far back. Still, there's nothing wrong with sheep farmers, but Diana did not grow up the daughter of a sheep farmer! Another famous ancestor of Diana's was Lady Georgiana Spencer who married the Duke of Devonshire (another famous British aristocratic family).

Interestingly the Spencers were also related to George Washington's family.
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  #404  
Old 08-31-2017, 02:11 AM
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It's a little more complex than that, though of course only in the technical sense. Both Lady Elizabeth Bowes Lyon and Diana were commoners before they married as they weren't peers just held courtesy titles.

Is it possible for a royal to be a commoner? – Royal Central

I meant by my comment that the direct Spencer line did not, at the beginning, contain Kings or Queens. In early Tudor times they were simple Northamptonshire farmers, sheep farmers. Of course, as they became more prosperous and more grand they did aquire ancestors who had royal blood via brides from the gentry and aristocracy who MARRIED into the Spencer line. The Spencers didn't have it inherently, from the family's earliest beginnings. And the Royal blood was through illegitimacy though the progeny certainly had all the lineage you mentioned.
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  #405  
Old 08-31-2017, 07:48 AM
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Let's get back on topic please - the thread is about true love marriages and not a debate on who is or is not a "commoner".
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Old 08-31-2017, 07:59 AM
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Definitely all morganatic marriages were of true love.
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