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  #61  
Old 05-18-2009, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by PrincessElena View Post
No. Henri and Marie Therese d'Orleans. Their eldest son, Francois and youngest daughter, Blanche are severely disabled.
Oh, thanks for setting me straight.
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  #62  
Old 06-16-2009, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Austria View Post
Under the category of "Royals with Disabilities":

Did dyslexia affect the Braganza family line? If so, do you know which line or which person(s)?

Thank you in advance.
Can this information be verified?:
The House of Braganza (/Braganca) was part of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha.
Is that the same "Gotha" genetic line as the British Royal Family (with dyslexia)? With all of the branch variations, is there a more specific name to this line? I believe the British Royal family married into the Swedish Royal family who also have dyslexia. Didn't the British family claim the dyslexia (or was that "only" hemophelia) came from the Saxe-Coburg & Gotha line? I would be happy for any clarification. Thank you.
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  #63  
Old 06-17-2009, 03:13 AM
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But now the Braganzas are not descendsnts of the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha...
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  #64  
Old 07-20-2009, 06:12 PM
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Braganza / Braganca descendants of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha line

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But now the Braganzas are not descendsnts of the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha...
Could anyone inform us of who the first and last descendants were for the Braganzas being connected to the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha lines? Thank you in advance.
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  #65  
Old 07-20-2009, 06:25 PM
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Henri & Marie Therese d'Orleans - dyslexia in family?

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Originally Posted by PrincessElena View Post
No. Henri and Marie Therese d'Orleans. Their eldest son, Francois and youngest daughter, Blanche are severely disabled.
Is their disability "dyslexia" or might they have something else? Regards.
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  #66  
Old 07-20-2009, 06:39 PM
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The first SCG connected to the Braganzas was Prince Ferdinand, husband of Queen Maria II of Portugal; their Braganzas descendants ended with King Manuel II, in 1932.
The present Braganzas are descendants from an uncle of Queen Maria II, and are not related with the SCG.
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  #67  
Old 07-20-2009, 06:40 PM
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Is their disability "dyslexia" or might they have something else? Regards.
No, their problem is related to the Toxoplasmosis their mother had during their pregnancies.
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  #68  
Old 07-20-2009, 07:59 PM
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Exclamation they are related

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Originally Posted by MAfan View Post
The present Braganzas are descendants from an uncle of Queen Maria II, and are not related with the SCG.
mafan,
the present head of the portuguese royal family, duarte pio born 1945 (via his mother maria francisca of brazil) is a descendant of victoire of saxe coburg gotha 1822-1857, a daugther of duke ferdinand 1785-1851. victoire is the sister of ferdinand 1816-1885, king consort of portugal, the husband of queen maria II (the great grandparents of king manuel II) !!!

victorie -
gaston, count of eu -
pedro, prince of brazil -
maria francisca -
duarte pio.

cheers jonny
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  #69  
Old 07-20-2009, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jonnydep View Post
mafan,
the present head of the portuguese royal family, duarte pio born 1945 (via his mother maria francisca of brazil) is a descendant of victoire of saxe coburg gotha 1822-1857, a daugther of duke ferdinand 1785-1851. victoire is the sister of ferdinand 1816-1885, king consort of portugal, the husband of queen maria II (the great grandparents of king manuel II) !!!

victorie -
gaston, count of eu -
pedro, prince of brazil -
maria francisca -
duarte pio.

cheers jonny
Dear Jonny Dep:
Wow - you are well informed! Thank you for a very complete and accurate answer letting us know the Braganza RF is currently descended from the Saxe-Coburg-Gotha family via Victoire (Victoria)). By chance, with respect, as many royal families have dyslexia, might that have affected the Braganza Royal Family also? Thank you in advance. Regards. :)
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  #70  
Old 07-20-2009, 10:19 PM
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Mad King Ludwig II of Bavaria -- dyslexic??

Mad King Ludwig II of Bavaria: I was wondering... Is it possible King Ludwig II could have been dyslexic? He is known as the Fairy Tale King, the Swan King, quite introverted, very artistic, loved beauty, romance, architecture, swans, Wagner and very fiscally irresponsible -- and not interested in politics and economics -- one could say not overly academic. Could it be possible he was "dyslexic" whereby creativity, artistic and music endeavors were much easier for him? Just a thought. What do you think? Thanks in advance.
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  #71  
Old 07-21-2009, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnydep View Post
mafan,
the present head of the portuguese royal family, duarte pio born 1945 (via his mother maria francisca of brazil) is a descendant of victoire of saxe coburg gotha 1822-1857, a daugther of duke ferdinand 1785-1851. victoire is the sister of ferdinand 1816-1885, king consort of portugal, the husband of queen maria II (the great grandparents of king manuel II) !!!

victorie -
gaston, count of eu -
pedro, prince of brazil -
maria francisca -
duarte pio.

cheers jonny
Yes, you're right, every time I forgot they descend from Victoria!
Thank you for remembering me it!
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  #72  
Old 07-21-2009, 06:09 AM
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Thumbs up yes the same family

Quote:
The House of Braganza (/Braganca) was part of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha.
Is that the same "Gotha" genetic line as the British Royal Family ?.
yes, it is the same family, ferdinand the father of victorie and ferdinand of portugal, is a uncle of both queen victoria and her husband albert the prince consort......
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  #73  
Old 05-22-2012, 07:31 PM
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Royals with Special Needs

I work in a preschool for children with mental and physical handicapabilities (yes, it is as cute as it sounds!), and with all the royal christenings going on this week, I got to thinking: What if a royal were to have a child with special needs? How would it affect their succession?

What if (for example) Princess Estelle had been born with Downs Syndrome? Or autism? As the first-born, would this affect her ability to one day become queen? What if Victoria and Daniel were to then have a "normal" second child; would this child take Estelle's place?

I'm only using Sweden as an example. What about other monarchies in the world? I know they all have their own rules, and I also know that the functions of special needs individuals has major variation on a case-by-case basis. I'm just generalizing here!

I'm aware of royals with obvious special needs in the past (Hello, Charles II of Spain), but my question is about modern-day royals.

Sorry I'm so long-winded! I'm just very curious. Thanks for your time!
-Kruununprinsessa :)
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  #74  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:01 PM
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Hi. I'm a special education teacher as well (only my certification is in blindness and visual impairment), and I sometimes wondered the same thing. However, I'd like to think that in our day and age parents won't exclude a child from succession just because he/she has special needs. Nowadays monarchs are not involved with politics, but are ceremonial heads of state (at least in Europe), so I don't see why a person with Down Syndrome, Autism, cerebral palsy, visual impairment, etc. won't be able to perform the duties, with assistance when and if necessary.
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  #75  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:04 PM
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I would think it would involve the severity of the impairment. They still are the public images for the nation. Sort of a PR person for many thing. They attend openeing of things and make speeches. So, it would depend on how that could be handled.
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  #76  
Old 05-22-2012, 08:12 PM
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I had always assumed as much... I think you are right, Daria, in this day and age it wouldn't matter as much as far as the whole "ceremonial figurehead" thing is concerned. Thanks for the input! :)
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  #77  
Old 05-23-2012, 01:53 AM
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In Denmark the heir has to sign a pledge to obey the Constitution and that means the heir has to understand what he/she is signing, what that entails and be able to comprehend the concept of the Constitution.
Because the Monarch here in DK is a part of the legislative process. I.e. signing laws for them to be valid, chairing regular state councils, appointing ministers and entire governments and so on.
In short the heir has to be "of sound mind".

So the Parliament would in all likelyhood bypass an heir, who is unable to or has very big problems fulfilling his/functions. Alternatively someone will act as regent and the heir would be de facto bypassed.
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  #78  
Old 05-23-2012, 02:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daria_S View Post
Hi. I'm a special education teacher as well (only my certification is in blindness and visual impairment), and I sometimes wondered the same thing. However, I'd like to think that in our day and age parents won't exclude a child from succession just because he/she has special needs. Nowadays monarchs are not involved with politics, but are ceremonial heads of state (at least in Europe), so I don't see why a person with Down Syndrome, Autism, cerebral palsy, visual impairment, etc. won't be able to perform the duties, with assistance when and if necessary.
On the subject of trisomy 21 (down syndrome) I think there must be certain considerations that would need to take place if an heir were to be born with the said chromosomal abnormality.

Fine and gross motor skill delay can interfere with cognitive development and congenital heart disease has risen significantly in relation to new borns (at around 50%).

Also fertility rates amongst people with down syndrom is significantly low with many males being unable to father children and women displaying low numbers for successful conception rates. As Europe's monarchies exist with a fundamental aim to be inherited, pressumably, by the child/children of the monarch this of course makes the likeliness of it very difficult and would place a great deal of stress upon that person and indeed the wider family.

The possiblility for an early onset of Alzheimers is also believed to be increased for people with trisomy 21. This occuring at an earlier stage of life than as is usually seen with most other people. Also there is an increased risk of developing epilepsy throughout childhood and adulthood.

Furthermore, the temperament of peoples with trisomy 21 often leads to behaviours of concern which often requires direct and consistent supervision. There are triggers which to us may not even appear as existant, but they are there and when evoked, it can cause a great deal of stress and anxiety for that person and those around them.

The fact of the matter is is that the broader picture needs to be taken into consideration.The person themselves need to become the priority above all else. Why place someone in such a demanding and relentless position of responnsbility when they could live a secure lifestyle, with the appropriate support networks and never have to want for anything. By no means does this suggest that they could not or should not hold a public profile alongside the rest of their family and undertake verious representative roles and patronages, but at least the burden of responsibility would not be so burdensome and kept at a minimal. Being the sibling of a King or Queen would come with more than enough responsibility.

It's about recognising the situation for what it is and in that, doing what can (and should) be done to assist and empower the indavidual to live as normal and comfortable life as is possible. The pressures of state and community expectations for a head of state would be a significant encumbrance.
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  #79  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:07 AM
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Very interesting thread!! Bravo

Is think reply is very different according to the country, and the type and level if problem. For a mental problem, IMO it would be easier to give a clear solution, because mental incapacity implies directly the degree of understanding the function.
But what about a physical problem?? In the past such persons were eliminated from their rights, but now? I read that King Juan Carlos uncle, was deaph, and he lost his rights. Would it happen now?
I think one of Queen's Beatrix sisters is blind? What if she was the older? Being blind does not reduce your incapacity to live in the modern word, so why not being a modern Queen??
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  #80  
Old 05-23-2012, 05:56 AM
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I think that being physically handicapped wouldn´t necesserily have to mean that one has to renounce his/her title to the throne. It would depend on the condition of the person. However, one thing is that modern countries can integrate such people well, the second is if the person would be eager to fulfil such a demanding role beside his/her health issues.
I have a colleague with multiple sclerosis, she is in a wheelchair. It costs her a lot of strenght to fulfill her job, even though she has just a part time. She is more tired, takes a lot of medication... It is not easy at all.
Mental handicap rules out the posibility to be a successor of the throne. Not only is the person unable tu fulfil the duties, moreover could be influenced by bad people, who would use her/him just like a puppet for their own intentions.
We can see it in the Orleans family, where the oldest Francois, being mentally handicapped, has been replaced as a succesor by his younger brother Jean, Duke of Vendome.
I understand that people are happy about the progress handicapped people can do being treated properly, but we have to stay realistic.
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