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  #41  
Old 09-19-2017, 12:21 PM
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There were rumors that Queen Silvia was not at all thrilled with the idea of Sofia Helqvist at first, but gradually came around, same as the king did for Victoria's husband Daniel.

Not that it would have done either of them any good to put their foot(feet?) down.
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  #42  
Old 09-19-2017, 12:23 PM
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I thought Queen Victoria approved of Princess Louise's marriage to the Marquess of Lorne and that it was Bertie, the future Edward VII, who disapproved. Victoria's response (IIRC) was to rightfully predict times were changing and that a marriage to a subject would be deemed than marriage to a foreign royal.
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  #43  
Old 09-19-2017, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
I thought Queen Victoria approved of Princess Louise's marriage to the Marquess of Lorne and that it was Bertie, the future Edward VII, who disapproved. Victoria's response (IIRC) was to rightfully predict times were changing and that a marriage to a subject would be deemed than marriage to a foreign royal.
I think that Victoria tended to want to control her children's marriages rather than actually forbid them. Yes its true that Bertie wasn't too keen on Louise marrying Lorne, partly because he felt it was better to marry a royal and partly because he feared that it mgith lead to controversy because of "favouring" one Political allegiance over the other. And Victoraia did point out to him that German princes weren't always that popular with the public, being seen as "German beggars" who came to the UK to find a royal bride and get a large income. However in this case Bertie was probably in the right as the Marriage to Lorne was unhappy.
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  #44  
Old 09-19-2017, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
Were Prince Carl Philips's parents against his marriage to Sofia? I don't follows this royal family like I do the British Royal Family.
They may have been privately against it at first as they were at first probably not thrilled either with Victoria's and Daniel's relationship, but, in the end, the King oficcially agreed to both marriages when he asked the government to give its consent to the unions (otherwise, both Victoria and Carl Philip would have been excluded from the line of succession upon getting married).
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  #45  
Old 09-19-2017, 02:29 PM
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True but it is possible that they ddn't feel they could refuse consent.. Carl Philip is not the heir, and while his bride was controversial its very unlikely that she would ever be queen. Probalby if they had refused consent, he would have married her anyway and put himself out of the succession?
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  #46  
Old 09-19-2017, 02:47 PM
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True but it is possible that they ddn't feel they could refuse consent.. Carl Philip is not the heir, and while his bride was controversial its very unlikely that she would ever be queen. Probalby if they had refused consent, he would have married her anyway and put himself out of the succession?
That is quite possible. However, that would have been an option. The Netherlands has been far more critical of potential brides (it might make a difference that the joint parliaments need to consent, which is harder to achieve than telling your prime minister that you gave your consent, so you expect him/her (or the government) to agree as well). In the last two generations three out of seven children of the (two) queen(s) have not asked nor received consent to marry and where removed from succession without any lasting effects to the monarchy.

However, it seems that the king would not wish that upon Carl Philip - as he has stated before that he (at least at that time) thought that CP was the rightful heir, so removing him completely from the line of succession would probably be too drastic.
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  #47  
Old 09-19-2017, 04:57 PM
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I don't think King Carl Gustaf and Queen Silvia were against Sofia Hellqvist - the King himself said at the engagement press conference that they got to know her a couple of years ago and found her a nice person.
I do realize that, of course, they wouldn't admit anything 'against' in public but had there been an 'against' I think it would have been phrased in a diplomatic way.

I rather think it was a cooking up of the press because of her controversial background and because of her predecessor (which mainly caused an issue with the old-school royal watchers). The press creates storms where it wants storms, but all has settled down for quite a while now and those storms have died.
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  #48  
Old 09-19-2017, 06:02 PM
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I'd say that we do not know whether the King and Queen were against a marriage between Carl Philip and Sofia; they might have been or not (and they may have changed their opinion over time; I assume they are quite happy with her willingness to do her part in the royal family these days regardless of their earlier thoughts being positive or more negative). Saying that someone is a 'nice person' doesn't suggest to me that they approved from the start, that is a quite basic thing that you can say about almost anyone even if you are truly unhappy about your son's choice of a bride - so actually, I would consider it quite 'diplomatic'; when you are happy you could use the same phrase, but there are many other ways in which that happiness could be expressed more convincingly.

Most people seem to think that the King did initially not support the relationship between Victoria and Daniel, so if that truly was the case it would be a little surprising if he had a hard time with Daniel and no objections at all to Sofia who had a far more questionable background. However, it might be that (1) those opinions were made up and he never objected to any of his children's partners, or (2) the king had overcome his objections and decided that any partner would be acceptable to him (progressive insight), or (3) he may have had serious doubts, but decided that if CP truly wanted to marry her, he was not going to withhold consent.
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  #49  
Old 09-19-2017, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
I thought Queen Victoria approved of Princess Louise's marriage to the Marquess of Lorne and that it was Bertie, the future Edward VII, who disapproved. Victoria's response (IIRC) was to rightfully predict times were changing and that a marriage to a subject would be deemed than marriage to a foreign royal.
Indeed Victoria did. She wrote to Bertie to convince him to support it.

That which you object to [that Louise should marry a subject] I feel certain will be for Louise's happiness and for the peace and quiet of the family ... Times have changed; great foreign alliances are looked on as causes of trouble and anxiety, and are of no good. What could be more painful than the position in which our family were placed during the wars with Denmark, and between Prussia and Austria? ... You may not be aware, as I am, with what dislike the marriages of Princesses of the Royal Family with small German Princes (German beggars as they most insultingly were called) ... As to position, I see no difficulty whatever; Louise remains what she is, and her husband keeps his rank ... only being treated in the family as a relation when we are together ...
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  #50  
Old 09-19-2017, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Nothing public was ever said if they were...and they appear to get along with her.


LaRae
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Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
Were Prince Carl Philips's parents against his marriage to Sofia? I don't follows this royal family like I do the British Royal Family.
I think the real sticking point of the SRF was Victoria and Daniel. The had to wait so very long to marry that I wondered if the King thought they's grow apart and solve the problem,

Victoria grew up spending a lot of time with Prince Frederik and Prince Haarkon and I kind of think he hoped there would be a match there and Carl Philip would again become heir. But, the heart wants what the heart wants and all three found terrific life partners even if they weren't royal or aristocratic.
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  #51  
Old 09-19-2017, 11:20 PM
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[QUOTE=MARG;2020127]
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Nothing public was ever said if they were...and they appear to get along with her.


LaRaeI think the real sticking point of the SRF was Victoria and Daniel. The had to wait so very long to marry that I wondered if the King thought they's grow apart and solve the problem,

Victoria grew up spending a lot of time with Prince Frederik and Prince Haarkon and I kind of think he hoped there would be a match there and Carl Philip would again become heir. But, the heart wants what the heart wants and all three found terrific life partners even if they weren't royal or aristocratic.
Did Victoria have a serious boyfriend before Daniel? I can't remember, didn't follow them prior to her meeting him.

Interesting that none of them have married into another royal/noble family...seems to be a trend in most of the European (and Scandinavian?) Royals.


LaRae
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  #52  
Old 09-19-2017, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I think the real sticking point of the SRF was Victoria and Daniel. The had to wait so very long to marry that I wondered if the King thought they's grow apart and solve the problem,

Victoria grew up spending a lot of time with Prince Frederik and Prince Haarkon and I kind of think he hoped there would be a match there and Carl Philip would again become heir. But, the heart wants what the heart wants and all three found terrific life partners even if they weren't royal or aristocratic.
Well, that's an interesting idea! You really think so? What a scenario....
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  #53  
Old 09-19-2017, 11:37 PM
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[QUOTE=Pranter;2020129]
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post

Did Victoria have a serious boyfriend before Daniel? I can't remember, didn't follow them prior to her meeting him.

Interesting that none of them have married into another royal/noble family...seems to be a trend in most of the European (and Scandinavian?) Royals.


LaRae
Victoria dated another Daniel, Daniel Collert prior. Collert and Victoria knew each other for years. He moved to New York when she was in the states for school and their relationship was confirmed in 2000. They broke up in 2001.


As for the idea that the king wanted her to marry Fred or Haakon so CP could be king.... Daniel entered the picture in 2002. Haakon had been married to MM for a year and Fred had been in a serious relationship with Mary for two years. Mary had moved to Denmark by this time to become more serious. There is little reason to think CG could have any delusion his daughter would marry one of them and his son would be heir again.


Marriages, at least among reigning houses, has been uncommon for some time. The reality is the rules softening allowing them to marry for love, has shut the door on what was practically arranged marriages. Though some royal families do socialize like the Scandis, they now tend to choose to marry for love. Considering Haakon and Victoria's fathers both married commoners themselves, something which would have lost them their throne in previous years, set a firm example for their kids. Margrethe was little different, in choosing a French diplomat though he did have some aristocratic roots.

The wedding between two royals/aristos are more common among the former houses now a days. For many reasons. Some being that they move in the same social circles. Go to the same schools and such. For them its like marrying in your own social circle which is quite common.
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  #54  
Old 09-20-2017, 12:17 AM
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Thank you, Countessmeout. Good context. I learned some things.
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  #55  
Old 09-20-2017, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post

However, it seems that the king would not wish that upon Carl Philip - as he has stated before that he (at least at that time) thought that CP was the rightful heir, so removing him completely from the line of succession would probably be too drastic.
Why would the King think that Carl Philip is the rightful heir? I know this is changing subjects, but I just have to ask.
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  #56  
Old 09-20-2017, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
Why would the King think that Carl Philip is the rightful heir? I know this is changing subjects, but I just have to ask.
He is on record as saying that the change in laws being retroactive was wrong. And that his son should not have been stripped of his position as crown prince. That if the law had to be changed, it should have been done in Norway, and applied to future children. Though he has also made the comment he would prefer his son to inherit, and that he thought that most Swedish people would agree, that they would prefer a king on the throne.

For the record, it was not actually done retroactive. It was a long process, a process started not only before CP was born but before Victoria was born. It is similar to the UK. Though the succession was changed in 2013, it applies to children born after 2011. CG knew even before Victoria was born, that the government planned to make it so the baby would inherit the throne no matter its sex.
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  #57  
Old 09-20-2017, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
Has anybody ever thought about the royals who married against their parents wishes and it turned out their parents were quite right. The 2 who always come to mind is Nicholas II of Russia and the Emperor who insisted on marrying Sissi.
In the case of Nicholas & Alexandra, it does not mean their parents were right, simply because of what happened with Rasputin and the Russian Revolution, and the eventual slaughter of N&A and their children.

Any deletion of prior posts and/or removal to more appropriate threads is understandable, but a brief announcement or indication by an admin is truly appreciated.
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