Royals & Nobles and Wealth, Costs and Finances

[carlota]

Personal Wealth of Royal Houses

Is there information on the personal wealth of the heads of the royal houses or the families as a whole? If so, I'm curious as to how this wealth is generated given they receive a salary from their countries only and that they don't receive money for supporting specific companies, for example. I suppose some of it comes in the form of "personal gifts" which must indeed be very valuable in some cases.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The BRF do not receive a salary at all. They receive income from four sources:

The Sovereign Grant which covers their official expenses and the maintenance of the occupied royal palaces.

The Duchy of Lancaster which provides a private income for the monarch of the day and was established for this purpose in the Middle Ages. The Queen uses this for her day to day expenses as well as the official expenses of the extended family - from Andrew down in the line of succession. She has also used this to establish trust funds for her children and grandchildren

The Duchy of Cornwall which provides a private income for the heir apparent to the throne and his family. When there is no heir apparent the money goes into the state treasury. Currently this income supports Charles, Camilla, William, Kate, George, Charlotte and Harry.

The private properties of the royal family and investments made from their private incomes e.g. Balmoral and Sandringham.

Over the course of several hundred years an amount of wealth will have accumulated and it isn't going anywhere due to the Sovereign to Sovereign Tax Free situation so when the Queen passes she will leave most, if not all, of her estate to Charles as then there will be no inheritance tax. Anything she leaves to anyone else will be subject to inheritance tax the same as everyone else.

 

[Mbruno]

Is there information on the personal wealth of the heads of the royal houses or the families as a whole? If so, I'm curious as to how this wealth is generated given they receive a salary from their countries only and that they don't receive money for supporting specific companies, for example. I suppose some of it comes in the form of "personal gifts" which must indeed be very valuable in some cases.

Information on the personal wealth of royal families is limited since it is mostly private in nature. In general terms though, in addition to the income they receive directly from the State or from public trusts (like the Sovereign Grant or the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall in the UK), royals, like everybody else, also earn income from assets that are privately owned by the family like real state, stocks, bonds, etc. Moreover, they also usually own personal items such as jewelry or art that add to their net worth.

 

[Queen Claude]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_richest_royals

The World's Richest Royals

Europe's wealthiest royals revealed but the richest family isn't one you'd expect! | Daily Mail Online

 

[Mbruno]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_richest_royals

The World's Richest Royals

Europe's wealthiest royals revealed but the richest family isn't one you'd expect! | Daily Mail Online

From my limited understanding, the royal families of the Gulf and south-east Asia, or the princely families of Liechtenstein and Monaco, are set apart from the other "normal" European royals in the sense that they still personally own a significant chunk of the Crown properties or holdings, making them billionaires or, sometimes, even multibillionaires. By contrast, most European royal families historically came to an arrangement under which they transferred most of the Crown holdings directly to the State or placed them under public trusts in exchange for the monarch no longer being personally responsible for paying for things like the civil government for example and the State basically promising to fund the royal household perpetually and granting the king a right of disposal over certain assets plus, sometimes, tax exemptions.

What is now counted as the "personal wealth" of most European royal families is, therefore, their residual private holdings that were not transferred to the State, or were acquired a posteriori and, in some cases, multiplied by sound investment. For families like the Windsors or the Orange-Nassaus, those private holdings are still extensive, i.e. in the multi-million dollar range, though nothing compared to the Gulf monarchs or the sovereign princes of the small European states . By contrast, the private wealth of royal families like those of Belgium, Norway, or Spain is fairly modest, although that is somewhat mitigated in practice by the fact that some of them, e.g. the Belgians, actually have a personal right of disposal over considerable assets under the arrangements I alluded to in the previous paragraph. The Swedish Bernadottes on the other hand are generally thought to be in between the British/Dutch and the Belgian/Norwegian/Spanish (maybe also Danish ?) RFs, with a middle-range personal net worth by European standards.

 

[Frelinghighness]

Didn't the lichensteins sell some of their very valuable paintings in the sixties because they were almost bankrupt?

 

[Rudolph]

Some things are difficult to put a price on until it's put up for sale. The Royal Philatelic Collection, one of the best private collection of stamps in the world, was inherited by the Queen from her father George VI and is valued between £10-£100 million.

The same with her private art collection. On the auction block it could be worth a lot of money.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

To paraphrase the late Duchess of Alba, during life generally seen as one of Spain's wealthiest persons: one can not take a Rembrandt under the arm to go to the supermarket. With other words: royals and nobles often are rich in properties and are relatively poor in cash.

A nice diamond parure or a painting by Rubens represent a serious value but the money comes only free when it is sold. And often such historical pieces are so connected with the patrimonium of a Royal House that a sale would cause an outrage in media: "The already stupendously rich royals are selling out national treasures!", easily overlooking that exactly this alleged wealth is stuck in these treasures...

Some Royal Houses have sold estates and properties and created investment portfolios. Not so interesting as a spectacular diamond necklace or a Flemish Master, but at least this generates revenues from dividends etc.

The Orange-Nassaus have placed all private properties which were considered "subservient to the execution of the royal dignity" into family foundations. With that move they suddenly "lost" the bulk of their wealth. In reality the family foundations give them ownership rights without being the legal owner. They have also sold estates and domains. Several Trusts have been created to ensure that the daughters of the late Queen Juliana, the sons of the former Queen Beatrix, and we may assume in the meantime also the daughters of King Willem-Alexander are/will be provided with financial support for the execution of their royal role. So cost-swallowing properties as Soestdijk Palace were sold and investment portfolios were created to feed these special Trusts. Sensitive planning and wise.

 

[Stefan]

Didn't the lichensteins sell some of their very valuable paintings in the sixties because they were almost bankrupt?

Yes the sold some of their paintings but in the meantime it is again different. they are even trying to buy new paintings. They also don't get Money from the State and Vaduz Castle where they live is owned by them and not the State.

 

[Bobbery]

What are the richest noble families in each country?

In the Great Britain it is the duke of Westminster, in Spain it is the duke of Alba and in Germany it is the prince von Thurn und Taxis. What about other countries like France or Belgium?

 

[Minute]

Andreas von Bechtolsheim * 5.000 Million Euro
Familie August von Finck * 5.000 Million Euro
Wilhelm von Finck jr. * 1.800 Million Euro
Familie von Metzler * 1.200 Million Euro
Stefan von Holtzbrinck * 1.150 Million Euro
Georg von Opel * 700 Million Euro
Familie Waldburg-Zeil * 650 Million Euro
Familie zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg * 600 Million Euro
Familie von Thurn und Taxis * 550 Million Euro
Georg Enoch von und zu Guttenberg * 500 Million Euro
Anton Wolfgang von Faber-Castell * 450 Million Euro
Botho von Schwarzkopf * 400 Million Euro
Dieter von Holtzbrinck * 400 Million Euro
Ernst August von Hannover * 350 Million Euro
Familie zu Fürstenberg * 350 Million Euro
Familie Castell-Castell * 300 Million Euro
Familie Castell-Rüdenhausen * 300 Million Euro
Familie Graf von Hardenberg * 300 Million Euro
Familie von Bismarck * 300 Million Euro
Familie zu Waldburg-Wolfegg und Waldsee * 300 Million Euro
Edler von Resch * 250 Million Euro

Figures from Manager Magazin

And a list for the UK: http://bit.ly/2o2NqEO

 

[Minute]

650 Million Euro
Princes of Waldburg-Zeil and Trauchburg
550 Million Euro
Princes of Thurn and Taxis
500 Million Euro
Princes of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg
350 Million Euro
Princes of Fürstenberg; Princes of Hannover
300 Million Euro
Princes of Bismarck; Princes of Castell-Castell; Princes of Castell-Rüdenhausen; Princes of Waldburg-Wolfegg and Waldsee

Figures are from Manager Magazin

 

[lucien]

How awkward and ordinair a thread is this?
Really.Who cares.Citing a rag,oh really,they
have to sell you see....Cheap!

 

[Daenerys Targaryen]

That's being a bit harsh to a new poster, dont you think?

 

[michelleq]

650 Million Euro
Princes of Waldburg-Zeil and Trauchburg
550 Million Euro
Princes of Thurn and Taxis
500 Million Euro
Princes of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg
350 Million Euro
Princes of Fürstenberg; Princes of Hannover
300 Million Euro
Princes of Bismarck; Princes of Castell-Castell; Princes of Castell-Rüdenhausen; Princes of Waldburg-Wolfegg and Waldsee

Figures are from Manager Magazin

Welcome!

That's quite interesting. Do you have the link to this article?

 

[Lee-Z]

How awkward and ordinair a thread is this?
Really.Who cares.Citing a rag,oh really,they
have to sell you see....Cheap!

Congratulations on showing a new member how *not* to be open-minded about other people's opinions.

Can't seem to find a working link to Manager Magazin (on Lucien's classification of it as a rag, I'd like a second opinion..), but the previous year's lists of wealthiest germans (from which the figures are taken imo) is also on wiki
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_500_reichsten_Deutschen

google translated

 

[michelleq]

Thank you both Minute and Lee-Z.

 

[Duchess Sophie]

650 Million Euro
Princes of Waldburg-Zeil and Trauchburg
550 Million Euro
Princes of Thurn and Taxis
500 Million Euro
Princes of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg
350 Million Euro
Princes of Fürstenberg; Princes of Hannover
300 Million Euro
Princes of Bismarck; Princes of Castell-Castell; Princes of Castell-Rüdenhausen; Princes of Waldburg-Wolfegg and Waldsee

Figures are from Manager Magazin

Interesting! Seems the Hannovers are more wealthy than articles from a while back where telling. Or the selling of things and Ernst-August jr. managing finances very well set them on the road of recovery.

 

[Marc23]

650 Million Euro
Princes of Waldburg-Zeil and Trauchburg
550 Million Euro
Princes of Thurn and Taxis
500 Million Euro
Princes of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg
350 Million Euro
Princes of Fürstenberg; Princes of Hannover
300 Million Euro
Princes of Bismarck; Princes of Castell-Castell; Princes of Castell-Rüdenhausen; Princes of Waldburg-Wolfegg and Waldsee

Figures are from Manager Magazin

350 Million Euro Princes zu Fürstenberg also.

 

[Grand-Duke]

According to the 2016 Sunday Times Rich List, there are 6 hereditary peers who are also billionaires in Britain:

1. The Duke of Westminster - £9350m
2. Earl Cadogan - £5700m
3. Baroness Howard de Walden - £3630m
4. Viscount Portman - £1890m
5. Lord Grantchester - £1200m
6. Viscount Rothermere - £1000m

Are there any in the rest of Europe?

 

[tommy100]

Sunday Times Rich List 2016: The aristocrats that are richer than the Queen - Business Insider

This article states that the Queen is the 15th richest titled member of the nobility (I guess you could argue she is above that but still you get the point, and I actually think their definition of nobility is pretty stretched). They refer to the Sunday Times Rich List which ranks the Queen as having £340million.
Those above her are:
The Duke of Northumberland - £365million
Charlotte Townshend - £425million (apparently the only other person other than the Queen who is allowed to own wild swans
The Duke of Sutherland - £580million
Lord Rothschild - £650million
The Duke of Bedford - £685million
Prince Jonathan and Princess Gesine Doria Pamphilj - £750million
The Earl of Iveagh and Guinness Family - £854million
The Duke of Devonshire - £870million
Viscount Rothermere - £1billion
Robert Miller & Princess Marie-Chantal - £1.58billion
Viscount Portman - £1.89billion
Baroness Howard de Walden - £3.63billion
Earl Cadagon - £5.7billion
The Duke of Westminster - £9.35billion

 

[Mbruno]

Sunday Times Rich List 2016: The aristocrats that are richer than the Queen - Business Insider

This article states that the Queen is the 15th richest titled member of the nobility (I guess you could argue she is above that but still you get the point, and I actually think their definition of nobility is pretty stretched). They refer to the Sunday Times Rich List which ranks the Queen as having £340million.
Those above her are:
The Duke of Northumberland - £365million
Charlotte Townshend - £425million (apparently the only other person other than the Queen who is allowed to own wild swans
The Duke of Sutherland - £580million
Lord Rothschild - £650million
The Duke of Bedford - £685million
Prince Jonathan and Princess Gesine Doria Pamphilj - £750million
The Earl of Iveagh and Guinness Family - £854million
The Duke of Devonshire - £870million
Viscount Rothermere - £1billion
Robert Miller & Princess Marie-Chantal - £1.58billion
Viscount Portman - £1.89billion
Baroness Howard de Walden - £3.63billion
Earl Cadagon - £5.7billion
The Duke of Westminster - £9.35billion

I assume the Queen's net worth in lists like that include only her privately-owned assets , i.e. those she can sell or will, including real estate, art, and jewelry, but does not include assets placed in public trusts from which the Royal Family actually earns income. It is a very old (and well-known) debate, but the Queen's "private" wealth gives only a small glimpse of her "true" wealth.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

And on paper the Bernadottes, Orange-Nassaus and De Belgiques are "poor" because their assests have been placed in legal entities which are the factual owners. We see Máxima wearing diamonds worth millions but these have been transferred from personal ownership into legal ownership. So the King of the Belgians enjoys a sprawling Château de Laeken, owned by the Donation Royale. Carl XVI Gustaf enjoys Italian Masters on his walls owned by the Galliera Foundation. Willem-Alexander is riding in a splendid Golden State Carriage pulled by eight horses, owned by one of the dozen Orange-Nassau Foundations. So who owns what and how is wealth contributed to? A very difficult question. Most magazines just stick a wet finger in the air and write from their sucking thumb.

 

[tommy100]

I assume the Queen's net worth in lists like that include only her privately-owned assets , i.e. those she can sell or will, including real estate, art, and jewelry, but does not include assets placed in public trusts from which the Royal Family actually earns income. It is a very old (and well-known) debate, but the Queen's "private" wealth gives only a small glimpse of her "true" wealth.

Most such lists now only include the assets the Queen owns as an individual (Balmoral, Sandringham, the Stamp collection, jewels etc) rather than those she owns as Sovereign and Head of State (BP, Windsor, crown jewels etc).

I guess you could say that the Queen may own a lot of assets herself her job gives her access to even more magnificent assets.

 

[eya]

The American website 'Business Insider' has revealed a ranking of the richest monarchies in Europe

https://today.rtl.lu/life/royals/a/1378691.html

 

[theroyalfly]

The American website 'Business Insider' has revealed a ranking of the richest monarchies in Europe

https://today.rtl.lu/life/royals/a/1378691.html

Is this for real? The Bourbons came 9th place and the Belgiques at 10th?

Can someone shed a light on this?

 

[tommy100]

I'm not sure how Felipe has built up such a fortune and I'm not sure if the Luxembourg's can really be that wealthy?

 

[Mbruno]

Is this for real? The Bourbons came 9th place and the Belgiques at 10th?

Can someone shed a light on this?

The list is roughly in line with what I expected. It is widely known that the Belgian Coburgs or the Spanish Bourbons are not privately wealthy whereas the sovereigns of Monaco , Luxembourg and Lichtenstein are billionaires. In the case of the Belgians in particular, most of the family’s private assets were transferred by King Léopold II to the Royal Donation Trust . The Trust itself was worth 850 million Euros in 2018 according to the French Wikipedia ( I can’t tell if those estimates are accurate).

I was somewhat surprised , however, with the net worth of King Harald and , especially, Queen Margrethe, which was higher than I expected.

 

[theroyalfly]

I'm not sure how Felipe has built up such a fortune and I'm not sure if the Luxembourg's can really be that wealthy?

Yes I am also wondering if this list was legit because as I know the Spanish Bourbon's get the cheapest stipend from the tax-payers but they are one of the most hard-working ones. As for the Luxembourg Nassau-Weilburg, they are really one of the wealthiest.

BELOW is a link about how much money royal families get from tax-payers:

**https://www.independent.co.uk/money...milies-get-from-their-taxpayers-a7870711.html

The list is roughly in line with what I expected. It is widely known that the Belgian Coburgs or the Spanish Bourbons are not privately wealthy whereas the sovereigns of Monaco , Luxembourg and Lichtenstein are billionaires. In the case of the Belgians in particular, most of the family’s private assets were transferred by King Léopold II to the Royal Donation Trust . The Trust itself was worth 850 million Euros in 2018 according to the French Wikipedia ( I can’t tell if those estimates are accurate).

I was somewhat surprised , however, with the net worth of King Harald and , especially, Queen Margrethe, which was higher than I expected.

I just want to know how did they make it to the 9th before the Belgian Coburgs. I expected them to be the last on the list. When Alfonso XIII and Ena went to exile, they might have spent all their fortune.

 

[Mbruno]

Yes I am also wondering if this list was legit because as I know the Spanish Bourbon's get the cheapest stipend from the tax-payers but they are one of the most hard-working ones. As for the Luxembourg Nassau-Weilburg, they are really one of the wealthiest.

BELOW is a link about how much money royal families get from tax-payers:

**https://www.independent.co.uk/money...milies-get-from-their-taxpayers-a7870711.html




I just want to know how did they make it to the 9th before the Belgian Coburgs. I expected them to be the last on the list. When Alfonso XIII and Ena went to exile, they might have spent all their fortune.

I don't know about the private finances of the Bourbons, but some Spanish posters here on TRF have disputed the claim that the Spanish monarchy is actually the cheapest in Europe.



Apparently, there are several hidden costs ranging from maintenance of royal residences to security that are not explicitly included in the King's apanage as it is the case in other countries, so cross-country comparisons may be misleading. Perhaps some other members who are more knowledgeable about those matters could elaborate further.



In any case, regardless of that particular ranking, I tend to think the Belgians are in a more comfortable position than the Spanish RF. Not only do they get a higher stipend (at least nominally) for current expenses, but also they got a very good deal from King Leopold's royal donation.

Under the terms of the King Leopold's will, the Belgian RF has the private right of disposal in perpetuity to the castle and the surrounding park of Laeken (including the royal greenhouses) plus other residences such as the castles of Belvédère, Stuyvenberg, Ciergnon and Fenff, without nominally owning them. And the Trust's assets that are not used by the RF, such as office buildings in Brussels or agricultural land, are rented out for income making the Trust financially independent of the State in addition to being also run independently. Only the Royal Palace of Brussels is, I think, owned directly by the Belgian State.