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  #21  
Old 10-17-2006, 09:11 AM
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Anyway, what did the royals do before there were fertility tests?? I really don't think infertility is grounds for divorce, but royals may think otherwise.
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  #22  
Old 10-17-2006, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZandraRae
Anyway, what did the royals do before there were fertility tests?? I really don't think infertility is grounds for divorce, but royals may think otherwise.
....well, in Japan there were concubines who could produce the needed male, in other countries there are stories of a child being "hurried in" to the birthing bed of a "formerly" infertile woman and from then on it was thought to be her child (hence the later practice of official people standing around to be witness a birth to insure it was legit -- as if that would prove it was the fathers ) and, certainly, there was divorce. The woman's main duty was to provide an heir, so divorce in those circumstances was understandable...in those days.
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  #23  
Old 10-17-2006, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZandraRae
Anyway, what did the royals do before there were fertility tests?? I really don't think infertility is grounds for divorce, but royals may think otherwise.
They checked the family. Habsburg-princesses eg were quite notorious for their good breeding qualities after the Lothringen-genes were added (before the Habsburg-Lothringen marriage the Habsburgs had a problem with breeding sons).

Same for the Wittelsbachs - good breeding stock. BTW - it is very plausible that the Lothringen-qualities were originally Wittelsbach-genes, as the grand-mother of Stefan of Lothringen from his Bourbon-Orleans mother's side was a Palatinian Wittelsbach princess. She was Elisabeth Charlotte of the Palatinate, duchess of Orleans, niece of the electress Sophia of Hanover, who was a Palatinian Wittelsbach herself. IIRC the breeding qualities of "Liselotte of the Palatinate" were one reason why the French wanted her for the brother of Louis XIV.

The Italian princesses were not very coveted for their breeding qualities, but for the Habsburg that didn't matter - they were good breeders themselves, so often the marriage was showered with offspring. Or they they were searched for as second wifes - that was the other side of the coin: because the Italian reigning families were not good breeders, it was quite plausible that the princess would become the heiress of her father's realm. Thus, some Habsburg princes married an Italian princess who became the heiress.

Eg Maria Beatrice d'Este. Her mother had herself been the heiress of the dukedoms of Massa and Carrara and from her father's side she inherited Modena and Reggio. She was happy in her marriage with the third son of emperor Stefan of Lothringen and his empress Maria-Theresia of Habsburg and they had 9 children!

Or Maria Bianca Sforza, the princess of Milano. She was the second wife of emperor Maximilian, who already had two children by his first wife Maria, the heiress of Burgundy. While the marriage with the Italian princess remained childless, the Habsburg received an inheritance claim to Milano, which they got after the male line of the Sforza ended in 1535.

Or emperor Joseph II: He married in his first (Love) marriage Isabella of Parma, but she could only give him a daughter. When she died, he tried a Wittelsbach: Maria Jospeha of Bavaria, but the marriage (of convenience) remained childless. When Josepha died, the emperor decided not to marry again. Maybe the thought if even a Wittelsbach could not give him kids....
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  #24  
Old 10-17-2006, 10:15 AM
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It's a very private question, but it's because Mathilde of Belgique didn't seem to have a very active sentimental life before her wedding that she didn't have one. In my opinion, this very descreat woman could have sentimental affair before meeting Phillipe, but as she is a very reserved woman, it was not on the public place; She is not Ferguie.

The question of the private life of the crown princess belong, by essence, at their past and they can give a good figure of herself what the trubble today ? It's actually a question of customs of our times but not of virtue.

May be if the beautyfull but too young Diana could have a sentimental ( and sexual) life before her wedding with Charles, she could manage her relations with her husbad in a better way! it's only a supposition of my part, but, remember she looked so innocentyoung thing and the dear Charles could be very odious because at the begining Diana was absolutly defenceless. As a gentelmen,Charles was not very fair...
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  #25  
Old 10-17-2006, 10:15 AM
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The late Diana, Princess of Wales definately had been examined by a doctor to prove that she was a virgin. Diana later confessed this herself to sources but it was well known in the Royal circles that she was asked to has the medical examination.
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  #26  
Old 10-17-2006, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyK
Actually, yes, they have. King Henry VIII divorced his first wife, Catherine of Aragon because of her infertility.
Catherine of Aragon and King Henry VIII did have children though. They actually had 7 of the but only one of them, a girl (future Mary I) survived. Henry divorced his first wife because she was unable to produce a son.
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  #27  
Old 10-17-2006, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Avalon
Catherine of Aragon and King Henry VIII did have children though. They actually had 7 of the but only one of them, a girl (future Mary I) survived. Henry divorced his first wife because she was unable to produce a son.
And because of Anne Boleyn.
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  #28  
Old 10-17-2006, 05:42 PM
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O.k this is what I found:

Her first child, a daughter, was stillborn in 1510. Prince Henry, Duke of Cornwall was born in 1511 but died after 52 days. Catherine then had a miscarriage, followed by another short-lived son. On February 18, 1516 at the Palace of Placentia in Greenwich, London, she gave birth to a daughter named Mary (later Queen Mary I of England). There was another miscarriage in 1518

Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_of_Aragon
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  #29  
Old 10-17-2006, 05:48 PM
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Says here: http://ftp.cac.psu.edu/~saw/royal/r19.html

He had 6 kids with Catherine of Aragon, but only Mary survived.
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  #30  
Old 10-17-2006, 07:56 PM
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Jo of Palatine - that is very interesting post. I didn't know any of that information on "breeding". Thanks.
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  #31  
Old 10-17-2006, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by sm1939
surely they would be checked out for that ! even in ths day and age they would have to know for sure if she could have children !
Well there is also a thing called unexplained infertility; meaning that although there is no reason that the woman can not conceive and yet she still cannot become pregnant. Do you think they also test the Prince's swimmers?
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  #32  
Old 10-18-2006, 09:12 AM
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No, I don't think they test that, because even if the Prince was the one who was infertile, it's not like they would be able to replace him.
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  #33  
Old 10-18-2006, 09:24 AM
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Where is the source for CP Mary's having lived with a man for seven years in Australia??? That's the first I've heard of that.
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  #34  
Old 10-19-2006, 05:21 AM
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check the cpmaryboard. There are lots of picures of this handsome ex-boyfriend Mary has lived with for 7 years.
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  #35  
Old 10-19-2006, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyK
With the exception of Mathilde, who has never had a known boyfriend prior to CP Phillipe
Though we might not know the name, it is sure that Mathilde had a serious long-term relationship with a (Belgian) aristocrat before she met the Duke of Brabant.
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  #36  
Old 10-19-2006, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Marengo
Though we might not know the name, it is sure that Mathilde had a serious long-term relationship with a (Belgian) aristocrat before she met the Duke of Brabant.
Thats good that she had a life before getting married !
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  #37  
Old 10-19-2006, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sm1939
Thats good that she had a life before getting married !
Right, because the opposite, today, can be strange!
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