Royals Who MUST Marry Nobility/Royalty

[USCtrojan]

I know of the Imperial family of Brazil and how the men are required to marry royal women or they loose their spot in the line of succession.

Are their other families that have this rule? Today we see the trend of royals marrying fellow blue blood dying as more and more commits marry into royal families, with that being said, are their others like Brazil?

Including non reigning families...

 

[monarchist-us]

Seems like none of the reigning European royal families hold to this anymore. Seems like it's only a concern among certain deposed dynasties (mostly German ones). Even the usually conservative Catholic monarchies like Lichtenstein allow commoner marriages without reservation these days.

 

[HRHHermione]

The only couple I can think of that have any problems at all related to rules about who royals can marry is Gustav, the Hereditary Prince of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg and Carina Axxelsson.

 

[doric44]

i think for a lot of European nobility its not a rule. but they run in the same circles go to the same schools. attend the same sporting and social functions in their various countries and around the continent .a lot of them seem to end up working in the same industries banking art etc. so its not surprising many of them find a spouse in those circles.but i don't think its intentional or mandatory

 

[fearghas]

he Duke of Wurrtemberg required it for his heir, Heriditary Duke Friedrich, who married Princess Marie if Wied. However his other son was allowed to marry a commoner and I'm pretty sure he didn't need to give up his position.

 

[LadyK]

The only couple I can think of that have any problems at all related to rules about who royals can marry is Gustav, the Hereditary Prince of Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg and Carina Axxelsson.

Actually, I believe the problem with that will is that it states that Gustav's bride must be Aryan. (highlight to read). You can guess what era that will was written in when you hear that, can't you? Carina is part Latina. They've been trying to fight that part in court.

 

[HRHHermione]

Actually, I believe the problem with that will is that it states that Gustav's bride must be Aryan. (highlight to read). You can guess what era that will was written in when you hear that, can't you? Carina is part Latina. They've been trying to fight that part in court.

I really hope they win. It should be obvious to any court how unreasonable a requirement that is.

 

[COUNTESS]

His grandfather was, obviously, an Nazi. The family should have adjudicated this many years ago.

 

[Lee-Z]

Please see the specific thread on this topic, but from what I remember, even if the Aryan-clause wasn't in it, there is also a stipulation that she would have to be of noble birth and protestant..
They can marry anytime they want, but he would loose his inheritance..

 

[BrazilianEmpire]

Hey, I'm from Brazil. Well, not only the princes, but princesses are also required to marry equally, in order to keep their succession rights.

The last time members of the Imperial Family marry equally was in 1981, when Prince Antônio married Princess Christine of Ligne, and his sister, Princess Eleonora, married Christine's brother, Michel (now, The Prince of Ligne), both marriages with issue.

Now, the younger generation of Royals are in a marriageable age. Their Prince Antonio and Princess Christine's children: Princess Amelia (29), Prince Rafael (27) and Princess Maria Gabriela (24). The oldest siblig, Prince Pedro Luiz, has died in 2009, aged 26, he was living in Luxembourg, as guest of Grand Duke Henri, and was looking for a royal wife.

 

[Alison H]

It used to be the case in a lot of German royal families, which is why the Tecks, Battenbergs etc weren't regarded as completely royal as they were descended from morganatic marriages due to one spouse "only" being noble and not royal. The same with the Habsburgs: Frans Ferdinand's marriage was morganatic as his wife was a countess rather than a royal. I don't know how many it still applies to, though. It all seems slightly pointless when there's no longer a throne to succeed to anyway.

 

[COUNTESS]

Hey, I'm from Brazil. Well, not only the princes, but princesses are also required to marry equally, in order to keep their succession rights.

The last time members of the Imperial Family marry equally was in 1981, when Prince Antônio married Princess Christine of Ligne, and his sister, Princess Eleonora, married Christine's brother, Michel (now, The Prince of Ligne), both marriages with issue.

Now, the younger generation of Royals are in a marriageable age. Their Prince Antonio and Princess Christine's children: Princess Amelia (29), Prince Rafael (27) and Princess Maria Gabriela (24). The oldest siblig, Prince Pedro Luiz, has died in 2009, aged 26, he was living in Luxembourg, as guest of Grand Duke Henri, and was looking for a royal wife.

Their succession rights to what?

 

[NotHRH]

Their succession rights to what?

Exactly - whether the government and people hold them in high esteem, which is the case according to certain forum member who is a university professor there, there ihas NOT been a monarchy in Brazil for well over 120 years. Besides, I think there were actually only two monarchs of the country. Yes, they were originally Portuguese royalty, but "were" is THE key verb here. It is pretentious, outright snobby, and utterly ridiculous for them to have to marry equally to maintain their succession rights to a throne that does NOT exist. The "faux " royalty of the world just really amazes me, especially this large bunch. There is a much-needed reality check for this family; time to let go of the past and move forward and quit misrepresenting themselves.

 

[jaro]

It is pretentious, outright snobby, and utterly ridiculous for them to have to marry equally to maintain their succession rights to a throne that does NOT exist. The "faux " royalty of the world just really amazes me, especially this large bunch. There is a much-needed reality check for this family; time to let go of the past and move forward and quit misrepresenting themselves.

Even though the Habsburg empire doesn't exist for 100 years, I still expect male members to marry equally according to Habsburg house rules. You never know, mornarchy could be restored one day in one of the former crown lands. Otto Habsburg had two sons - Karl and Georg. Even though Karl is 1st son, I would not support him due to unequal marriage and his son Ferdinand being a racing driver. 2nd son - Georg married equally. So in the event of restoration of monarchy, he would be preferred.

 

[Muhler]

Even though the Habsburg empire doesn't exist for 100 years, I still expect male members to marry equally according to Habsburg house rules. You never know, mornarchy could be restored one day in one of the former crown lands. Otto Habsburg had two sons - Karl and Georg. Even though Karl is 1st son, I would not support him due to unequal marriage and his son Ferdinand being a racing driver. 2nd son - Georg married equally.

Why?
I fail to see the logic.

I understand and support the notion of not marrying someone "unsuitable" in regards to royal families or families where they harbor a hope about becoming royal again.
The problem is that nobles (and indeed their closest relatives) are just as capable of being unsuitable as a coal miner.
Is Karl's wife a stripper? Has she expressed extremist views like demanding all rabbits kept as pets being clubbed to death in front of children? Is her name written in red on the lists at the credit card issuers?
What has she done except not having an appropriate background?

As for being a racing driver. Well, it's a fairly respected trade. Politically neutral and you work your way up based on merit. It that a problem?
There are other trades like politician, journalist or lawyer that scrapes the bottom in regards to respectability in the eyes of the public.

The famous Habsburg chin was as you know a result of inbreeding, so perhaps an injection of new blood here and there is beneficial?

 

[Countessmeout]

So Ferdinand is a race car driver, so what? He isn't alone. Carl Philip of Sweden is. His godfather Prince Leopold of Bavaria was as well. Albert or thurn and taxis, Prince Ferfried, the Uncle of the current head of the house of Hohenzollern are. The eldest son of the Prince of Lowenstein-Rosenberg was a race car driver and unfortunately died in an accident in 2010. Beyond CP, they are titleless royalty who have no duties and position, and live completely private lives like Ferdinand. There is a Saudi prince who seems to be quite a racer as well.

 

[Countessmeout]

Why?
I fail to see the logic.

I understand and support the notion of not marrying someone "unsuitable" in regards to royal families or families where they harbor a hope about becoming royal again.
The problem is that nobles (and indeed their closest relatives) are just as capable of being unsuitable as a coal miner.
Is Karl's wife a stripper? Has she expressed extremist views like demanding all rabbits kept as pets being clubbed to death in front of children? Is her name written in red on the lists at the credit card issuers?
What has she done except not having an appropriate background?

As for being a racing driver. Well, it's a fairly respected trade. Politically neutral and you work your way up based on merit. It that a problem?
There are other trades like politician, journalist or lawyer that scrapes the bottom in regards to respectability in the eyes of the public.

The famous Habsburg chin was as you know a result of inbreeding, so perhaps an injection of new blood here and there is beneficial?

Francesca is a former model/actress and party girl but nothing outrageous, certainly no soft porn and naked pictures out there.

Her family is a very wealthy German family who made their money in steel but moved to Hungary. Her father gained his title through his marriage. His father in law adopted him, and Franz Joseph allowed the titles to pass to her father through his wife. The family owns a major museum in Madrid.

Francesca is well known in the art world. She has established a foundation and purchases/commissions artists and their art work which she then displays. During the Croatian war she went into the country and helped to protect and preserve churches and works of art there.

I have trouble seeing how an aristocratic (at least through her mother) Baroness of wealth and a successful career, is not a suitable bride in these modern times. But who knows

 

[Muhler]

Thanks for the details, Countessmeout.

Nor can I.

Her background and presumably the circles she moves in, means that she is know which fork to use at a dinner, she knows how to small-talk, she know what it means to go to boring receptions simply because that was a part of her upbringing.
And in higher business circles unfortunate behavior is also very much frowned upon if you are to be taken seriously.

 

[jaro]

Is Karl's wife a stripper? Has she expressed extremist views like demanding all rabbits kept as pets being clubbed to death in front of children? Is her name written in red on the lists at the credit card issuers?
What has she done except not having an appropriate background?

As for being a racing driver. Well, it's a fairly respected trade. Politically neutral and you work your way up based on merit. It that a problem?
There are other trades like politician, journalist or lawyer that scrapes the bottom in regards to respectability in the eyes of the public.

The famous Habsburg chin was as you know a result of inbreeding, so perhaps an injection of new blood here in there is beneficial?

For me unequal marriage is a good enough reason for rejection if there is other son who meets this condition. It should be noted that the marriage received dynastic authorization of Otto Habsburg so it is not the same case like Franz Ferdinand who was allowed to marry but under harsh terms (I would not have accepted it). Karl was also involved in some financial scandal and is not very popular in Austria. His political carreer in OVP ended prematurely. Francesca and Karl live separated, their marriage didn't work out well. This all disqualifies Karl.

I do not consider racing driver to be occupation compatible with royal background. It doesn't develop skills required for being a monarch.

For me Georg is clearly preferred, even though he is not the current heir apparent. It would be interesting to hear what other people from Austria/Hungary think.

I do not see the Habsburg chin in pictures of Franz Joseph I, Charles I, Otto, Karl or Georg. Sure there may be some genetic damage due to marrying relatives but this is responsibility of the house of Habsburg to make sure they maintain reasonable genetic diversity.

 

[Muhler]

I see what you mean. But that Karl is unpopular that is af far as I can tell his own fault, not whom he married.
The he and his wife live separate lives is hardly novel. Even royals who marry suitable partners end up being divorced as we have witnessed in recent decades.
In fact history is littered with royal couples who were a best distant.

Even the legendary Sissy ended up living a separate life from her husband.

So if that is ground for disqualification the list will be very short.

 

[Bonnie Blue Butler]

What about Russia? I think they also have to marry an equal person to not lose the succession rights

 

[Rudolph]

These house rules exist because the families don't rule or reign over anyone or anything. If by chance Austria became a monarchy once again, the Hapsburgs would have to fall in line with the rest of western European parliamentary democracies.

Every monarchy has an approval process for marriages, either the sovereign or the government but you can't rule someone out based on their 'unequal' background. It would never fly in liberal democracies

 

[Cris M]

Exactly - whether the government and people hold them in high esteem, which is the case according to certain forum member who is a university professor there, there ihas NOT been a monarchy in Brazil for well over 120 years. Besides, I think there were actually only two monarchs of the country. Yes, they were originally Portuguese royalty, but "were" is THE key verb here. It is pretentious, outright snobby, and utterly ridiculous for them to have to marry equally to maintain their succession rights to a throne that does NOT exist. The "faux " royalty of the world just really amazes me, especially this large bunch. There is a much-needed reality check for this family; time to let go of the past and move forward and quit misrepresenting themselves.

If you want to talk about me, at least have the decency to mention me by name. And again, in your rush to belittle the Brazilian Imperial Family and Brazilian monarchists, you committed some History mistakes.

Also, it's time for some American members to learn to show some respect for other people's opinions and beliefs. You are going through the process of electing a new President, right? Republicans and Democrats are allowed to express and uphold their views in your democratic system, right?

Well, here in Brazil, monarchists are allowed to express and uphold their views. So I see no reason for people to belittle them (unless they want to show how disrespectful and narrow-minded they are).

 

[Marc23]

I have trouble seeing how an aristocratic (at least through her mother) Baroness of wealth and a successful career, is not a suitable bride in these modern times. But who knows

Well,from her father's side she has also descended from many great noble families such as Esterhazy, Zichy, Bethlen, Karolyi , Bathori, Forgach, Palffy, Batthyany, Fugger etc.

And if we go back few hundred years from families such as Nassau, Baden, Lorraine and even Habsburg Emperors themselves.

 

[NotHRH]

If you want to talk about me, at least have the decency to mention me by name. And again, in your rush to belittle the Brazilian Imperial Family and Brazilian monarchists, you committed some History mistakes.

Also, it's time for some American members to learn to show some respect for other people's opinions and beliefs. You are going through the process of electing a new President, right? Republicans and Democrats are allowed to express and uphold their views in your democratic system, right?

Well, here in Brazil, monarchists are allowed to express and uphold their views. So I see no reason for people to belittle them (unless they want to show how disrespectful and narrow-minded they are).

The point was I was trying to make is that the people of Brazil still seem to hold their ex-imperial family in high esteem. I did not realize that until you pointed that out to me in another forum post. I was not trying to belittle anybody nor was I disrespectful toward you or anybody else with the same opinion. I DO respect your opinion. Each of our opinions on this topic are in direct contrast with other though, and we will never agree. I always try to keep an open mind and learn from others. I am sorry you felt I was being disrespectful, but realize our opinions about this family seriously contrast and probably always will. I do not understand why you take it so personally. Understand my views about this family has absolutely nothing to do with you at all.

 

[Marc23]

I have trouble seeing how an aristocratic (at least through her mother) Baroness ...

Well,not just her mother,but also from her father!!!

Here is Francesca's line from Habsburgs via her father(I posted on another thread her line from from Habsburgs on her mother's side):


Emperor Rudolf I von Habsburg,reigned from 1273-1291
I
Emperor Albrecht I von Habsburg,lived from 1255-1308
I
Duke Albrecht II of Austria,lived from 1298-1358
I
Duke Leopold III of Austria,lived from 1351-1386
I
Duke Ernst I of Austria,lived from 1377-1424
I
Margravine Katharina of Baden,lived from 1424-1493
I
Margrave Christoph I of Baden,lived from 1453-1527
I
Margravine Sibylla of Baden,lived from 1485-1518
I
Countess Johanna von Hanau-Lichtenebrg,lived from 1513-1572
I
Countess Sibylla von Eberstein,lived from 1531-1589
I
Countess Maria Magdalena Fugger zu Kirchheim und Weissenhorn,lived from 1566-1646
I
Countess Katalin Palffy of Erdöd,died in 1639
I
Baroness Eva Forgach de Gasc,lived from 1613-1639
I
Count Istvan Csaky de Körösszeg et Adorjan,lived from 1635-1699
I
Countess Maria Klara Csaky de Körösszeg et Adorjan,lived from 1660-1688
I
Count Zsigmond I Kornis de Göncz-Ruszka,lived from 1677-1731
I
Count Zsigmond II Kornis de Göncz-Ruszka,lived from 1718-1777
I
Count Zsigmond III Kornis de Göncz-Ruszka,lived from 1750-1809
I
Count Janos Kornis de Göncz-Ruszka,lived from 1780-1840
I
Count Gabor Kornis de Göncz-Ruszka,lived from 1809-1877
I
Count Gabrielle Kornis de Göncz-Ruszka,lived from 1834-1902
I
Baron Gabor Bornemisza de Kaszon et Imperfalva,lived from 1859-1915
I
Baroness Margit Bornemisza de Kaszon et Imperfalva,lived from 1887-1971
I
Baron Hans Heinrich von Thyssen-Bornemisza de Kaszon et Imperfalva,lived from 1921-2002
I
BARONESS FRANCESCA ANNA DOLORES VON THYSSEN-BORNEMISZA DE KASZON ET IMPERFALVA,ARCHDUCHESS OF AUSTRIA,born in 1958

 

[Jacknch]

These house rules exist because the families don't rule or reign over anyone or anything. If by chance Austria became a monarchy once again, the Hapsburgs would have to fall in line with the rest of western European parliamentary democracies.

Every monarchy has an approval process for marriages, either the sovereign or the government but you can't rule someone out based on their 'unequal' background. It would never fly in liberal democracies

I think this is absolutely right. It seems that most of the current reigning royal houses have updated their rules and requirements as to who their members can marry in line with the laws of that country, which in turn would have been amended in line with changes in society.

Some of the non-reigning houses appear to have retained these strict rules, but I am not sure why really.
In hopes of their country becoming a monarchy again, one would have thought they would do what they can to become more acceptable to the people. On the other hand, if they know they will never reign again, I suppose they wish to keep on with the traditions so as at least to be set apart from normal society.

 

[NotHRH]

I think this is absolutely right. It seems that most of the current reigning royal houses have updated their rules and requirements as to who their members can marry in line with the laws of that country, which in turn would have been amended in line with changes in society.

Some of the non-reigning houses appear to have retained these strict rules, but I am not sure why really.
In hopes of their country becoming a monarchy again, one would have thought they would do what they can to become more acceptable to the people. On the other hand, if they know they will never reign again, I suppose they wish to keep on with the traditions so as at least to be set apart from normal society.

Only "officially" is it considered "tradition," it's really only a superiority complex and their refusal to accept reality. They refuse to accept their now "commoner" status. If the families allowed marriages to unequals, they would eventually assimilate into non-royal, albeit wealthy, society and that thought makes them stare reality in the eye. Somehow, they feel no government has the right to strip them of their royal status, but governments can and do, and it is legally binding. C'est la vie!

 

[Jacknch]

Only "officially" is it considered "tradition," it's really only a superiority complex and their refusal to accept reality. They refuse to accept their now "commoner" status. If the families allowed marriages to unequals, they would eventually assimilate into non-royal, albeit wealthy, society and that thought makes them stare reality in the eye. Somehow, they feel no government has the right to strip them of their royal status, but governments can and do, and it is legally binding. C'est la vie!

I do think this is the case for a lot of people, not only non-reigning royal houses. But it's up to them to decide I suppose.

One thing that springs to mind is that by restricting who one should marry means that surely potential spouses become fewer and fewer as time goes on. Wouldn't the Line eventually die out?

I've said this elsewhere on the forums, but it is hard enough trying to find a wife for some of the princes in reigning families (no names will be mentioned as there are separate threads for that!) where no such rules or restrictions exists, let alone narrowing the field to such a extent.

In many ways I am traditionalist myself, but I think it is enough to find what in the old days people would say "just find a nice young man/lady to marry".

 

[Muhler]

I think you have a point there, NotHRH.

However, if these families eventually wish to become royals again, it's important they will not be considered too aloof. Otherwise their future subject cannot relate to them and as such will find them irrelevant. And why reestablish someone who are aloof and irrelevant?