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  #41  
Old 05-08-2010, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Odette View Post
Catherine the Great also had at least one daughter with Count Orloff she sent to hiding
Her eldest daughter Anna Petrovna's father was probably Stanisław August Poniwatowski (later last Polish King).

Stanisław August as a King had several out-of-wedlock children
- with Elzbieta Grabowska (his later morganatic wife):
Stanisław and Michał Grabowski,
- with Magdalena Agnieszka Lubomirska:
Konstancja Zwanowa,
Michał Cichocki,

August II the Strong King of Poland, Electorof Saxony had several out-of-wedlock children. According to Princess Wilhelmine of Prussia, Margravine of Brandenburg-Bayreuth he had from 365 to 382 children. However only few he recognized like:
- with Countess Maria Aurora von Konigsmarck: Herman Maurice Comte de Saxe,
- with Countess Joanna Teresa Estrele (nee Lamberg): son,
- with Fatima later Maria Anna von Spiegel:
Frederick August Rutowski
Maria Anna Katharina Rutowska,
- with Urszula Katarzyna Bokum/of Altenbockum wife of Prince Jerzy Dominik Lubomirski and later Frederick Ludwig von Wurttemeberg-Winnental:
Johann George Governor pf Dreseden,
- with Henriette Renard-Duval:
Countess Anna Karolina Orzelska mistress of Crown Prince Karl-Frederick of Prussia and wife of Charle Ludwic Frederick von Schleswig-Holstein-Sondrerborg-Beck,
- Anna Konstancja von Brockdorf Countess Cosel
dead son ?
Augusta Anna Konstancja Cosel
Fryderyka Aleksandra Cosel
Fryderyk August Cosel,
- with Maria Donhoff later Princess Lubomirska: child.

King Jan III Sobieski had one out-of-wedlock son born between 1646-48.

King Władysław IV Waza with Jadwiga Łukowska: Władysław Konstanty.

King Zygmunt II August Jagiellończyk and Barbara Gizanka: Barbara Woroniecka.
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  #42  
Old 05-23-2010, 08:36 PM
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Nowadays, do we still consider having illegitimate children as scandal even for the royals?
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  #43  
Old 06-26-2010, 10:51 PM
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children born out of wedlock

Several years ago when the Crown Prince of Norway was engaged to be married to a woman who had a child from a previous relationship, an issue was made about the fact that this child was born out of wedlock. Given that Norway is a much more progressive thinking country than the United States on this matter, why this even was made an issue is beyond me but in a way it is the double standard rearing its ugly head. If a male heir to a European throne fathered a child out of wedlock, it might be mentioned at the time (then dropped) but usually it would be years down the road if it were mentioned at all. In a lot of cases, it never would be mentioned at all. There would not be endless debates about it nor would he be judged as harshly as a princess would be. Any Crown Princess who did this would be judged very very harshly and would have to answer to her family and her country. A Crown Prince would not have to do this.
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  #44  
Old 06-26-2010, 11:30 PM
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Princess Wilhelmine of Baden, Grand Duchess of Hesse, married her much older cousin Grand Duke Louis II of Hesse. Her first two children, Louis and Karl, were definitely his. Louis would his succeed his father while Karl was the father of Louis IV, husband of Princess Alice.

But the paternity of her later children was questionable. The grand duke purchased a home for his chamberlain, Baron von Senarclens, in Heilingenberg. Grand Duchess Wilhelmine promptly moved out of her husband's residence in Darmstadt and moved into the property at Heilingenberg. She went on to have four (five) more children, but only the last two lived to adulthood. Grand Duke Louis acknowledged the children as his own, though everyone knew they really could not have been his.

So who were these last two children? One was Prince Alexander of Hesse, who was the ancestor of the Battenberg (Mountbatten) line. The other was Princess Marie, future consort of Tsar Alexander II and grandmother of Nicholas II.
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  #45  
Old 06-28-2010, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by LordMountbatten View Post
Nowadays, do we still consider having illegitimate children as scandal even for the royals?
No i don't think so. I remember when Prince Albert of Monaco revealed that he has two kids out of wedlock from two different women nobody was shocked,but when King Albert's of Belgium paternity to Delphine Boel was revealed the press treated him very cruel.Monaco's Prince didn't received negative publicity due to the fact that he fathers two illegitimate kids but for hiding it for so many years (i think that Rainier died without knowing for Albert's second child).
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  #46  
Old 06-28-2010, 08:52 AM
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Prince Christian Sigismund of Prussia, uncle of the Head of the House of Hohenzollern Prince Georg Friedrich of Prussia, has a child born out of wedlock. He is the heir presumptive, because Georg has no children yet.

Isabelle-Alexandra Grandmontagne-Prinzessin von Preussen (b. 18 September 1969)

Prince Christian-Sigismund of Prussia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #47  
Old 06-28-2010, 02:46 PM
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King Charles II of England had quite a few
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  #48  
Old 06-28-2010, 10:27 PM
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fathers of England King Charles & his brother King James

King Charles had at least 15 children. His brother King James had 5 children with 2 wives and then at least another 10 children with various mistresses. There is a total of 30 or more children between the two Kings. King Charles was often refered to as the Father of England. When you count the number of grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc, it adds up. The father of England fits well. How interesting given that he's the Defender of the Faith (Head of the Church of England).

I believe Princess Diana and Fergie were decesendents of two of these mistresses.
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  #49  
Old 08-28-2010, 09:50 PM
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We know that many royal households thoughout history have had children born out of wedlock, mostly fathered by male royals, although in recent times there have been a few females here and there. An interesting question would be of these children born out of wedlock and acknowledged, how many of male royals later married their child's mother. Or in the few cases involving female, how many marriages later took place. It would seem that in cases involving females, the percentage would be a little higher. My guess is that the percentages are not very high (1 to 5%) and I might be over estimating this as the true count of this will never been totally known. Only a small faction of these cases are really known.
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  #50  
Old 11-14-2010, 09:24 AM
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King Charles II of England had quite a few
As did William IV and several of Queen Victoria's uncles.
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  #51  
Old 11-24-2010, 07:59 AM
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Emily, Benjamin and Mark Lascelles (grandchildren of Princess Mary, daughter of HM King George V) were born out of wedlock so are excluded from the line of succession to the throne.
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  #52  
Old 11-24-2010, 08:05 AM
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The duke of Noto and his wife Sofia Landaluce had a son (b. 1993) before they were married (m. 2001). But I blieve that prince Jaime of Bourbon-Two-Sicilies has been legitimized and is number 2 in the succession (of this branch of the family).
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  #53  
Old 11-24-2010, 09:15 PM
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In recent times has any out of wedlock child been titled or given some type of title when the parents didn't marry? I know when they have married, then they are usually titled at some point.
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  #54  
Old 12-22-2010, 05:43 PM
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Legitimation and Pedigree??

I don't know how recent you think this is (1919), but Princess Charlotte, Duchess of Valentinois parents never married, and she was legitimated and adopted.
More specifically, I am curious how nobility of other realms recognize marriage after children.
i.e. Scots law allows noble inheritance if the couple subsequently marries, yet england, ireland, and uk peerages do not. Personally curious about Spanish nobles right now, but would like to hear others. Thx.
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  #55  
Old 12-23-2010, 05:56 AM
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Emily, Benjamin and Mark Lascelles (grandchildren of Princess Mary, daughter of HM King George V) were born out of wedlock so are excluded from the line of succession to the throne.
And also Tanit Lascelles and Martin Lascelles (and his daughter Georginia)
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  #56  
Old 12-29-2010, 10:41 PM
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Back in the old days there was no DNA or blood tests to prove paternity. The only way a King, heir to the throne or male royal could tell without a doubt if they were the father of their mistresses children would be if the child looked like him, looked like other family members of his (sister, mom,etc), was a carbon copy of him, or had some other feature would would connect him to his family. If the child looked like a clone of the mistress, it would be very difficult to tell. Some people you can't tell who their parents are as they don't look like either parent.

In my case, I have a very strong resemblance to my biological father's family. I looked like I'm related to him. No one could dispute this. It's very difficult to find any features of mine that are my biological mother (it's there but you really have to look at me to see them). Neither of them of course are heirs to any throne nor do they sit on any throne.

I imagine it was an unwritten rule that a mistress be completely faithful to the King, heir to the throne or other male royal if they wanted to continue to enjoy his company. Most probably were but some were not.
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  #57  
Old 12-30-2010, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
I imagine it was an unwritten rule that a mistress be completely faithful to the King, heir to the throne or other male royal if they wanted to continue to enjoy his company. Most probably were but some were not.
Well in two of the most recent cases that has not been true...although it depends on how you define mistress.

The mother of Jazmin Grace Grimaldi was married at the time she conceived her daughter with Albert of Monaco. It was only a one-night-stand if reports are correct so IMHO she was not a mistress.

Also in Monaco, Caroline was pregnant with Ernst August of Hannover's child before his divorce and their subsequent marriage. As he was still marriage to his first wife, Caroline was his mistress, although at the time she was apparently not involved with anyone else.

And the most prominent example is The Duchess of Cornwall. The former Mrs. Camilla Parker-Bowles was the mistress of the POW before, throughout, and after her marriage to her husband. Since she had two children by him, she certainly wasn't being faithful to the POW.
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  #58  
Old 12-30-2010, 08:06 AM
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The illegitimate children of Charles II

There were many children who apparently were of royal Stewart blood.But not all of them seem to be reliable.
For example,Duke of Monmouth was said to be the son of a different man and not Charles II.Only the Duke of Richmond seemed to be the son (on 100 %) of the king.
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  #59  
Old 12-31-2010, 01:49 PM
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A mistress is a woman (married or single) that has a relationship with a married man for a period of time. Sometimes it's a short time, other times it's long term or it's an on again off again relationship with may last for a long time. That my definition of a mistress. It's not a one-night stand.
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  #60  
Old 12-31-2010, 04:14 PM
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I think you are right. Good definition.
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