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  #501  
Old 07-29-2011, 08:15 PM
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Edward II was tormented by his wife and the way he lead his life not having to do with who he was sleeping with. I don't think Edward being straight would have helped his situation anymore; his wife was a "b" and he had bad advisors.
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  #502  
Old 07-29-2011, 08:38 PM
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I disagree. Who one sleeps with always affects one's life - no exceptions, not even for a King. Big effects, small effects - it's still an effect. His wife was no bitchier than many modern women - and his sexual practices did affect his reign (and his marriage, obviously).

Not everyone is delighted to find themselves dealing with a man like Edward II, and Isabella was a very strong-willed, sexual and acquisitive French-born Queen. The fact that Edward couldn't rein her in speaks volumes.

Of course it would have helped his situation if he was straight (have you not read what the priests and monks had to say? The chroniclers of his own day?)
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  #503  
Old 08-30-2011, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
...The problem with Edward II is that kings of England had real power, it was the Middle ages, and he did not conduct himself with discretion.
And ended up with a red hot poker as a suppository
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  #504  
Old 08-30-2011, 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by PaulaB View Post
And ended up with a red hot poker as a suppository
Making fun of medieval torture methods which lead to the victim's death?
What an utterly deplorable attitude, PaulaB.
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  #505  
Old 08-30-2011, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Princejohnny25 View Post
I do not understand the gay gene or believe in it either. I think you are born gay.
I believe a person is born gay but how can it be genetic when identical twins have a gay twin and a straight twin?
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  #506  
Old 08-30-2011, 04:28 AM
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This is kind of an off the wall theory but would have to be taken in context of beliefs held by some but not overly "scientific" nor in the mainstream of thinking.

It has been suggested that perhaps some people feel drawn to a certain lifestyle from the time of their birth stems from a viewpoint bringing in reincarnation and the living of many many lifetimes. One would not always be reincarnated as a male nor a female and over eons of lifetimes, build up a preference for one or the other or even perhaps still have "carryover" traits from the lifetime just previously experienced.

This topic can be explored further in the excellent book "Journey of Souls" by Dr. Michael Newton, PhD.

Just another aspect I thought worth mentioning.
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  #507  
Old 08-30-2011, 08:58 AM
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The argument of whether one is born homosexual or heterosexual or choose 1 of the two is definitely on going..
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  #508  
Old 08-30-2011, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Boris View Post
Making fun of medieval torture methods which lead to the victim's death?
What an utterly deplorable attitude, PaulaB.
As the word that he was killed in such a way was only mentioned several years after his forced abdication and murder its not known if he died in such a way. Its believed he was more likely to have been sufforcated or strangled. He played the game of politics and lost and in previous ages that meant death. You can't put our feelings or morals on the medieval period.
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  #509  
Old 08-30-2011, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by PaulaB View Post
You can't put our feelings or morals on the medieval period.
'A red hot poker as suppository' I consider to be a decidedly unfunny remark about this form of torture in exactly the period where you unfortunately made it, not the medieval age but the year 2011.
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  #510  
Old 08-30-2011, 01:49 PM
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I admire your straightness, Boris.
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  #511  
Old 08-30-2011, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Tilla View Post
I admire your straightness, Boris.
Now THIS is funny!
I take it as a very tongue-in-cheek compliment... Thanks.
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  #512  
Old 08-30-2011, 08:11 PM
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There has been a debate for a long time whether someone who is gay is born that way or if they chose to be gay. Because many of those who are gay say that they felt this way since they were very young, there would have to be possibly more of a genetic basis for this. This was not something their parents put into their minds or something that they encouraged. A lot of people who are against gays say that people put this in their minds.

I've yet to hear anyone who's gay saying that it was their parent's influence or preferences or anyone else's influence which caused them to be gay. The same is true of someone who is heterosexual.

If the gay person was heir to the throne, its doubtful that his (I saying he, since most heirs to the throne are male) family or parents influenced him or encouraged him to be gay. The same would be true of any royal but more so with the heir to the throne.

If the family or parents found out that the heir to the throne was gay, it would be interesting to know how they would handle this.

If the press didn't know about it, they would try to keep it that way.

If there were rumors of it that kept coming up, the family or parents might pressure the heir to get married to quell the rumors but people would probably still wonder. It might be difficult for the heir to get a wife as if this is well known among royal or elite circle, some women knowing this would turn him down or distance themselves from him.

Or some women might try to change his sexual orientation with or without the assistance of his family. Then you have depending on the country religion and politics playing into this as well.
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  #513  
Old 08-30-2011, 08:50 PM
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Gay people are gay, because that is how God made them. No one choses to be an outcast. It must be awful to think that people hate you because of something that is not your fault. We have had philanderers who were kings, and Lord knows whatever else. It is the 21st Century, use your brain. If you resort to the Bilical prohibitions, Charles would be a street cleaner. I am a heterosexual, but I cannot imagine the suffering of those who are gay and are excoriated.
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  #514  
Old 01-26-2012, 11:00 PM
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I'm not sure whether this should go here, or in the Questions of Titles thread, but I just had a theoretical question, and wanted some opinions. If Harry were gay, or say one of William's sons is gay and he (or in the case of Harry, Charles) were king, do you think the male partner would receive a title upon marriage? Would they use a lesser title of the royal son? Like Harry would be Duke of Clarence and his partner would be Earl of Wherever? Or do you think they Harry would be given two Dukedoms, say Clarence and Avondale, and one would use Clarence and the other would use Avondale, but their children (permitting new LP's are passed to say that surrugate children are royal) would be of Clarence and Avondale? I know it's kinda out there, but I'm just curious what people think would happen.
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  #515  
Old 03-06-2012, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
True...as long there are other heirs in the line of succession. then providing the heir would not be a big deal. But I guess the bigger question is....would be the public be open to a gay heir. And I don't think they will.
There is always an heir, yes? Queen Anne's surviving heir was her Protestant 3rd cousin, I think, George I.
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  #516  
Old 03-06-2012, 03:06 PM
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Hi everybody! Interesting thread!
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Originally Posted by vanderpuch View Post
There is always an heir, yes?
Actually, no, not everywhere. As it happens, in Japan there is but one single heir in the second generation after the present Emperor Akihito, five-year-old Prince Hisahito, the only son of the emperorīs second son, Prince Akishino. There is no hope that another heir of his generation will be born. If Prince Hisahito should turn out to be gay or remain childless for whatever reason, that will be it for the Japanese monarchy.

(Background info: In Japan, only men can ascend the throne. It would be possible to change the law in order to allow women to become tenno. But at present, there are no plans to do so.)
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  #517  
Old 03-06-2012, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
...the foreign ministry of his country will face some interesting diplomatic challenges as homoseksuality is not accpeted in the same way everywhere and certainly not among heads of states.
I would have thought the same but our foreign minister since 2009, Guido Westerwelle, is openly gay, and - admittedly to my surprise - this does not seem to be a problem at all. He does not take his partner with him on official visits to countries where homosexuality is considered a crime, but thatīs as far as heīll go with making compromises. By himself, he visits even countries like, for example, Saudi Arabia, expects to be treated with respect and is, as far as I know. Nobody dares to say that they wonīt receive him because of his sexual orientation. On his trips to China and Japan, he took his partner Michael Mronz with him. (We do not have gay marriage in Germany but it is possible to register as partners.)

It is true that recently Belarussian President Alexander Lukashenko tried to insult Westerwelle by saying that it was "better to be a dictator than gay", but as far as I know it was the first time that such a thing happened. Besides, like German government spokesman Steffen Seibert remarked, "It's interesting to find out this way that Mr Lukashenko too now classes himself as a dictator."

Do not take me wrong: I know that a foreign minister is absolutely NOT the same as a monarch, he does not have to produce offspring etc., I am only answering to that detail about gay heads of state not being internationally accepted. It seems that if people are given no choice, they somehow manage to behave politely, whatever they may think in secret...
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  #518  
Old 03-06-2012, 04:01 PM
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As you pointed out yourself, there is a considerable difference between an elected political figure, minister or head of state, and a royal head of state.

A royal is a national representative for life.
And the whole concept of royalty is to a large degree based on tradition and conservative values, also traditional religious values.
According to that, royals, European royals at least, are expected to enter and stay in a monogamous marriage and have children. Even such a common thing as a divorce is frowned upon.
It destroys the ideal (and idyllic) image of the nuclear family.

And that's my whole point. A secondary royal can get away with being an open homoseksual. (We just won't send him to countries X & Y). It will of course cause considerable interest and controversy.
But the heir or the head of state? There'll be big problems for the first one to leave the closet. That's for sure!

It'll certainly be interesting to follow the children growing up now. According to some statistics I know of, 5-10 % of the population is homoseksual. So statistically speaking at least a couple of the children growing up in the European RFs now, will be gay. Or at the very least active bisexual.

ADDED: I would accept a secondary royal in my own country being openly homosexual in a heartbeat. But the heir? I have to admit that it will take some getting used to. Because the royals in general, and the heir and monarch in particular are living representatives of traditional values.
For the same reason I would have problems accepting an heir or a monarch who is openly a transvestite in his sparetime.
I know, I know, it's politically incorrect and biased and goes against what I believe in, but royals are special.
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  #519  
Old 03-06-2012, 04:13 PM
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There are always difficulties when one is the first of anything, but people seem to eventually come around and adapt.
I think today only the aged Duke of Bavaria appears publically with his male partner, but I am not sure if he has ever come out and said he is gay.
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  #520  
Old 03-06-2012, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincePatrick View Post
I'm not sure whether this should go here, or in the Questions of Titles thread, but I just had a theoretical question, and wanted some opinions. If Harry were gay, or say one of William's sons is gay and he (or in the case of Harry, Charles) were king, do you think the male partner would receive a title upon marriage? Would they use a lesser title of the royal son? Like Harry would be Duke of Clarence and his partner would be Earl of Wherever? Or do you think they Harry would be given two Dukedoms, say Clarence and Avondale, and one would use Clarence and the other would use Avondale, but their children (permitting new LP's are passed to say that surrugate children are royal) would be of Clarence and Avondale? I know it's kinda out there, but I'm just curious what people think would happen.

Good question!
I think the partner would get a title, simply because it would be politically incorrect, not mention a political minefield, not to.
What kind of title is debateble. - It would very much depend on the public opinion, I believe.
However, being the first to live in an open gay partnership, I don't think the partner should expect a title as grand as if Harry chose to live with a woman.
There is also the question of where the Church of England stands in regards to gay relationships let alone marriages.
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