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  #21  
Old 10-27-2005, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
In the progressive Scandinavian monarchies, I think the people would accept an openly gay sovereign. Possibly it would be OK in the Netherlands too. I doubt it would be accepted in Spain or Monaco (even though rumors about Prince Albert have been around for years).
I think a openly gay king is possible in the Netherlands. But that's just my point of view as a young student with several gay friends. I don't know how other people would react to it.
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  #22  
Old 10-27-2005, 06:28 PM
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I just noticed this thread and haaaaad to have a browse!

I think its wonderful how the Scandinavian nations inparticluar have welcomed and embraced the gay communities so warmly. Its also very comforting to see how many royals are actually supportive of, and have many gay friends.

I think the homosexual movement has come a long way in recent years, but has a long, long way to go before it is accepted and respected for what it is, especially in the Roman Catholic nations. And who knows. It may never really be accepted!

Unfortunately, here in Australia the gay community does not share the same rights as that of the heterosexual community and it is (from what I have been exposed to) still finding it rather difficult to make that transition (of course having a homophobic Prime Minister does'nt help much).

Those who hold prejudiced views against us should realise that we ourselves are the result of a heterosexual union, so how are we so different from them?

Contrary to what people think, gay isnt a choice (those who claim to be Bi are just greedy.lol.). I know I had no say in the matter and had known from a very early age (early primary school) that I viewed things differently to the other boys.

So all I can say is that its the personality that makes a person, not their sexuality!

"MII"
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  #23  
Old 10-27-2005, 06:40 PM
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Re:

Well said Margrethe II! I think that its a good thing that the Scandinavians seem to have a good attitude to the gay community - but how far does it extend? They may welcome the gay community but would they welcome a gay King or Queen as quickly?

I too knew of my orientation from primary school and so I think that it must be common for people to know from an early age. But the family could be just as big an issue for Royals as it is for commoners. I don't think the Queen would welcome a gay grandson at all - she's well known for being a devoted christian and loves tradition.
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  #24  
Old 10-27-2005, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I don't think the Queen would welcome a gay grandson at all - she's well known for being a devoted christian and loves tradition.
I think the Queen is more progressive than people give her credit for. Yes, she takes her role as Monarch and Head of the Church very seriously. But, she is also well-known to have tolerated and accepted gay male servants for years, perhaps not quite to the extent her mother did, but tolerant nonetheless.

I know the Household is not the same as having a gay grandson, but I have to believe she would be supportive of her grandchildren no matter what.
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  #25  
Old 10-27-2005, 07:11 PM
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Which Quuen are we referring to here?

Elizabeth II or Margrethe II?

If Elizabeth, hen I beliee HM would be tolerant and understanding to the best of her ability.

Indeed, the Queen Mother did have a soft spot for her gay employees. I remember reading how she thought her gay staff to be well spoken, charming and could arrange a mean floral spray.lol. God love her!

"MII"
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  #26  
Old 10-27-2005, 07:14 PM
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Re"

Quote:
But, she is also well-known to have tolerated and accepted gay male servants for years, perhaps not quite to the extent her mother did, but tolerant nonetheless
The Palace once had a policy only to employ gay footmen. They wouldn't leave to get married nor would they get the housemaids into trouble. George V hated the idea and once refused to knight a homosexual chap saying, "I do not knight buggers". The Queen allows her gay servants to bring their partners but she doesn't like to see men dancing together. She's not overkeen on gay women but she doesn't mind gay men.

The Queen Mother had a whole host of gay footmen running after her. The wonderful story goes that two obviously and well-known gay footmen are having a heated argument when the Queen Mother glided past and said, "When you two old queens are finished, do you think you could get this old queen a gin and tonic?"
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  #27  
Old 10-27-2005, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
The wonderful story goes that two obviously and well-known gay footmen are having a heated argument when the Queen Mother glided past and said, "When you two old queens are finished, do you think you could get this old queen a gin and tonic?"
HAHAHAHA Oh I love it "B"

"MII"
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  #28  
Old 10-28-2005, 12:38 AM
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Ive heard of the rumors about Albert of Monaco
have there been rumors about Joachim , Frederik , Felipe ,Willem - Alexander , William or Harry
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  #29  
Old 10-28-2005, 02:15 AM
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I once read that Queen Mary II (as in the Mary of William and Mary) was actually in love with another woman when she was forced to marry Prince William of Orange and that she maintained a relationship with that woman for the rest of her life.
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  #30  
Old 10-28-2005, 03:57 AM
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Although not English, It was said that Her Majesty the Queen Consort Marie - Atoinette of France conducted a passionate love affair with her close friend and confidante, Madame de Polignac. So, history dictates that such rumours are not uncommon umongst the aristocratic circles of Europe and have been around for many centuries.

There is no doubt that Antoinette loved Madame and Madame her, but the likeliness of the two conducting an active lesbian relationship is most unlikely.

Such a shame that Polignac's influence over "the Austrian" proved to be most catastrophic.....

"MII"
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  #31  
Old 10-28-2005, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grecka
I once read that Queen Mary II (as in the Mary of William and Mary) was actually in love with another woman when she was forced to marry Prince William of Orange and that she maintained a relationship with that woman for the rest of her life.
Apparently King James was also gay - a fact which was publically known to the extent that somebody came up with the quip:
Rex fuit Elizabeth: nunc est regina Jacobus.
(Elizabeth was King; now James is Queen.)

It's wonderful to know that people lived their lives as they wished before stuffy Victorian moral codes shaped the way we look at history.
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  #32  
Old 10-28-2005, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilla
Apparently King James was also gay - a fact which was publically known to the extent that somebody came up with the quip:
Rex fuit Elizabeth: nunc est regina Jacobus.
(Elizabeth was King; now James is Queen.)

It's wonderful to know that people lived their lives as they wished before stuffy Victorian moral codes shaped the way we look at history.
I'm sorry but that is so cool! I never knew that King James was gay!
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  #33  
Old 10-28-2005, 07:47 AM
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One more wonderful tread we have to thank Beatrix for...
Quote:
Originally Posted by branchg
I think the Queen is more progressive than people give her credit for.
I sure agree with you. I do not think she would be very upset by a gay grandson but she would be worried for the Monarchy IMO.
Beatrix said in another thread that young people were not as accepting as people think they are and it's quite true. As a 20 something, I will say that I'm always surprised by the relatively high degree of homophobia in my groupe age comparing to 30 something people I know who are more open-minded. Still I'm talking for France, I did not have discussion about that with my English friends yet.
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  #34  
Old 10-28-2005, 08:02 AM
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Re:

The English are very very backward when it comes to homosexuality. There are still people who describe one as being 'not of the marrying kind' and it's all very hush hush. There are the clubs and the communities and I think that until recently, Lord Frederik Windsor (son of Prince and Princess Michael) was on the board of G-A-Y. It's very much kept behind closed doors here and we still haven't got used to heterosexual couples kissing in the street, let along homosexual ones.

There's that wonderful saying, "The Duke of Kent is exceedingly bent" - it's origin coming from Prince George of course. He was having a passionate affair since his youth and all through his marriage with Sir Noel Coward. One night, a policeman saw two elderly women struggling along the street, bent over and laughing - obviously roaring drunk. He arrested them and took them to the police station. Suddenly, one of them took off her wig and revealed that she was in fact the son of King George V and Queen Mary. When the Prince died, Coward was beside himself and Marina actually asked him to the memorial service personally. She knew what was going on but she bore it all with good grace.

I think that the upper classes especially are rather stuffy and old-fashioned and of course, in the forces it would be a huge problem. All those butch men laughing in their messes at the gay Monarch. Of Course, they're the biggest hypocrits of them all with 'forced buggery' still being a huge problem. (And can I say to anyone who is offended at that, it's still the way they class male rape in the armed forces). Can you imagine the fun they'd have in the barracks if a gay Prince was bunking with them?
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  #35  
Old 10-28-2005, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel
As a 20 something, I will say that I'm always surprised by the relatively high degree of homophobia in my groupe age comparing to 30 something people I know who are more open-minded.
I believe the attitude towards homosexuality shifts a bit with age. From my experience as a teacher I can say that especially for young male teenagers homosexuality is the big no-no issue. If you really want to demolish somebody's reputation you call them "gay". Well, it's not as if they could say what was so bad about it, it's just some handed-down prejudice.
But when they get older, young men become more tolerant. Maybe they feel less threatened by then, I don't know. It's all very sad.
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  #36  
Old 10-28-2005, 09:26 AM
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The husband of Marina was gay? Wonder if she knew before they married and whether she had lovers, it must have been a bit sad for her.
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  #37  
Old 10-28-2005, 09:30 AM
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Re:

Quote:
The husband of Marina was gay? Wonder if she knew before they married and whether she had lovers, it must have been a bit sad for her.
Apparantly she was made aware of George's sexuality by being told he was 'a bit flighty'. I think she just learned to live with it but she didn't have other lovers or partners. She threw herself into motherhood and when George was killed, she went into deep mourning and blamed herself for his 'condition'. Alexandra, Edward and Michael went to live with Queen Mary whilst Marina went through a deep depression.
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  #38  
Old 10-28-2005, 12:30 PM
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According to a biography of Princess Marina, she had a long-term lover during her widowhood, but nothing was said about marital infidelity on her part. Mind you, she was only married for eight years and had three children in that time, so she didn't have a lot of time for dalliances.

I remember reading that Queen Victoria, when asked why an act of Parliament outlawing male homosexual activities didn't also include female homosexual activities, saying that it wasn't necessary because women didn't do that sort of thing. Apparently when she did her history lessons, the friendship between Queen Anne and Duchess of Marlborough was presented in a very platonic light! I wonder if she was told about "Mrs Freeman" and "Mrs Morley."
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  #39  
Old 10-28-2005, 12:34 PM
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Re:

Quote:
I remember reading that Queen Victoria, when asked why an act of Parliament outlawing male homosexual activities didn't also include female homosexual activities, saying that it wasn't necessary because women didn't do that sort of thing.
LOL! I love that. Maybe that explains the Royal Family's attitudes now. According to Brian Hoey, "The Royal Family are at great ease with their male homosexual staff but are not as accomodating to women of a similar persuasion".
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  #40  
Old 10-28-2005, 02:10 PM
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4th attempt! My computer is bogus today

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth
I remember reading that Queen Victoria, when asked why an act of Parliament outlawing male homosexual activities didn't also include female homosexual activities, saying that it wasn't necessary because women didn't do that sort of thing. Apparently when she did her history lessons, the friendship between Queen Anne and Duchess of Marlborough was presented in a very platonic light! I wonder if she was told about "Mrs Freeman" and "Mrs Morley."
This remark turned out to be a blessing for lesbians. Their existance beeing totally ignored and their status not legally defined, they did enjoyed more liberty than their male counterparts who were hunted down like witches (see the Oscar Wilde trial).
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I think that the upper classes especially are rather stuffy and old-fashioned and of course, in the forces it would be a huge problem. All those butch men laughing in their messes at the gay Monarch. Of Course, they're the biggest hypocrits of them all with 'forced buggery' still being a huge problem.
I remember reading few articles about rapes in posh boy boarding schools (Eton included), but I wonder if it is still a huge issue as you say. I mean, compared to the 60's or 70's when it was nearly some initiatic stuff, a sort of fresher week 'joke':( )

About Kent. I believe homosexuality was the least of his "issues" (not that I suggest homosexuality is an issue, I have my gayfriendly member-card :p ). He was also a drunk and a drug-addict, or am I mistaken.
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