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  #61  
Old 03-26-2007, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo
Mrs. Florentine Rost van Tonningen-Heubel died, she was also known as 'the black widow'.

Her death was announced by one of her sons this weekend. Due to her death the public station re-aired a programme that 'profiel' did on her. Apart from her usual talk (she was a staunch Nazi), she gave some comments regarding the royal family.
She apparently played tennis with Juliana (years before the war) and said that she was instructed to let the Princess win.
She also noted that Princess Juliana was in love with a Jhr. Roell (the father of Renee Roell?) but that he was considered not good enough and that people tried to keep Juliana away from him.
Another remark that she made was about the so-called stadholder letter of Prince Bernhard. She claims that her husband saw the letter and that he was uredered for that (however he commited suicide). This led me to wonder: from which circles came the alligations against Bernhard about this letter? Only from this clique of (former)Nazi's?
Her youngest son Ebbe was a history teacher at my highschool Rotterdamsch Lyceum for 1 or 2 years, he taught us history, WW 2. So a favorite subject of his was that his father had been pushed down stairs, murdered, because he knew a lot about so called high profiled duchmen being pro nazi and it had to be kept quite by the Dutch secret service. He never mentioned Prince Bernhard but he came to mind a ont of the possible men.
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  #62  
Old 03-26-2007, 04:50 AM
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How remarkable that he agreed with his mothers version of the story. From what I read her 3 sons did not agree with their mothers point of view and they all had a difficult relationship with her because of that (though suspecting your father is killed is not the same as supporting Nazism, as Mrs. Rost van Tonningen did).

Anyway, in the statement that announced her death the eldest son also said that he and his brothers regretted his mothers opinions and did not agree with them (the Nazism that is).
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  #63  
Old 03-28-2007, 05:00 AM
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Prince Bernhard's will.

It became known that the late Prince Bernhard has changed his will 6 days before his death, to open his inheritance for his two illegitimate daughters.

It is absolutely unclear how much the inheritance of the Prince was. He inherited nothing from his own spouse, the late Queen Juliana. He has had his own fortune and inherited from his German relatives.

For so far known there are only a few facts:

The sale of Prince Berhard's yacht, Jumbo VI, resulted in € 2.650.000,--.
The sale of Prince Berhard's yacht, Jumbo V, resulted in € 590.000,--.
Vogelhof House in Soest was bougt by the Queen and the three Princesses for € 1.500.000,--.
The house at Noorderweg 22 in Soest was bougt by the Queen and the three Princesses for € 250.000,--.
The house at Noorderweg 75 in Soest was bougt by the Queen and the three Princesses for € 725.000,--.
The villa l'Elefante Felice, Porto Ercole (Italy) has not been sold and is estimated for € 10.000.000,--.
Theworth of the late Prince's investments and stock-portfolio is unknown.
The worth of private heirlooms to be auctioned is unknown.
For so far some € 15.715.000,-- is traced by outsiders.

The three houses in Soest were bought by the Queen and the three Princesses and their two halfsisters were paid an equal share in the value of the three houses. Apparently to prevent the loss of these houses (rented to retired staff from the household). The money for Alicia de Bielefeld and Alexia Grinda was paid via the lawyer's firm De Braauw, Blackstone and Westbroek in The Hague.


The 6 heirs in Prince Berhard's will are, according to his testament d.d. 1 December 2004:

Her Majesty Beatrix Wilhelmina Armgard Queen of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, Princess of Lippe-Biesterfeld, aged 69, born Soestdijk Palace, the Netherlands, residing in The Hague, Huis ten Bosch Palace, the Netherlands, unmarried;

Her Royal Highness Princess Irene Emma Elizabeth of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, Princess of Lippe-Biesterfeld, aged 67, born Soestdijk Palace, the Netherlands, residing in Wijk bij Duurstede, the Netherlands, unmarried;

Her Royal Highness Princess Margriet Francisca of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, Princess of Lippe-Biesterfeld, aged 64, born in Ottawa, Canada, residing in Apeldoorn, Huis Het Loo, the Netherlands, married;

Her Royal Highness Princess Marijke Christina of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, Princess of Lippe-Biesterfeld, aged 60, born Soestdijk Palace, the Netherlands, residing in London, United Kingdom, unmarried;

Alicia Hala de Bielefeld, aged 55, born in San Francisco, United States of America, residing in San Francisco, United States of America, unmarried;

Alexia Bénédicte Irina Manuella Olivia Grinda, aged 39, born in Boulogne-Billancourt, France, residing in Paris, France, unmarried.
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  #64  
Old 03-28-2007, 05:36 AM
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I wonder how the press knows this? I can not imagine the court announcing it, or the sollicitors of the prince babbling to the press.
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  #65  
Old 03-28-2007, 12:25 PM
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I have no idea. It looks like a document has been leaked, or needs a document to be made public in a sort of registry? There is an inconsequence though: according to the Prince in his 'Volkskrant'-interviews, he inherited nothing from his spouse.

I thought that a surviving partner always has the right on half-plus-one child's portion?

This would have meant that Queen Juliana's personal fortune was split in 9 parts:

5/9 for Prince Bernhard (4 portions (= half) plus one child's portion)
1/9 for the Queen
1/9 for Princess Irene
1/9 for Princess Margriet
1/9 for Princess Christina
----
9/9

This would mean that on his turn Prince Bernhard's fortune needs to be divided by six:

1/6 for the Queen
1/6 for Princess Irene
1/6 for Princess Margriet
1/6 for Princess Christina
1/6 for Alicia de Bielefeld
1/6 for Alexia Grinda
----
6/6

I'm sure that Queen Juliana was absolutely not happy with the idea that illegitimate daughters of her surviving spouse get part of her own fortune. Maybe that some settlement was made, for an example, the bulk was a transferred as 'a gift' to her eldest daughter? That must have been done more than 5 years before her death, when she still was able to handle her affairs.
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  #66  
Old 03-28-2007, 03:00 PM
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Wills in the US are public; that's why people often set up trusts before they die (trust terms are not made public).
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  #67  
Old 03-28-2007, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaffir
Wills in the US are public; that's why people often set up trusts before they die (trust terms are not made public).
In the Netherlands testaments are strictly private and never made public. But Prince Bernhard already revealed that all his daughters (including Alicia and Alexia) will equally share in his inheritance.

I think it is part of detective work by the journalist. The yachts Jumbo V and Jumbo VI were sold and it was known these were property of the late Prince. It is also known that the Prince's villa Il Elefante Felice in Porto Ercole is for sale, with an estimated sum of € 10.000.000,- (some $ 13,000,000.--).

In the registry anyone can see which who is the owner of immovables. Man can see that the villa and the two houses, owned by the late Prince and used as grace and favour houses to retired staff have changed in ownership. Man can trace that the properties were bought by the four Princesses, to 'outbuy' their two halfsisters. And it was already known for years that the chique lawyer's firm De Braauw Blackstone & Westbroek in The Hague works for the Queen and her sisters.

So I think it was much of detective work. Still the bulk of the inheritance is unknown. We also already know that the execution of the wills of Queen Juliana and Prince Bernhard is a complicated affair and that the two illegitimate daughters have had to wait quite a long time. The newspapers claimed that € 800.000,-- (around $ 1,000,000.--) has been paid as an advance sum to both halfsisters. The newspaper also claims that the Queen and the Princesses want to outbuy Alicia's and Alexia's claims completetely and do not wish to have direct contact with them. All goes via lawyers.
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  #68  
Old 03-28-2007, 08:25 PM
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It might very well be that there are special circumstances at play with the will of a former monarch. There might also, and very likely, be a prenuptial agreement in place as there was so much wealth and national treasure at stake. In this case, Bernhard would not be entitled to one half, plus one childs portion. In fact, while I understand where you are coming from, in this case especially, it is highly unlikely that he inherited much from his late wife. The division that you speak of is often, even in the Netherlands, only valid if there is no will, or if the will specifically states so.

With the royal family, I doubt that one can marry into it, even years ago, without some serious thought and preperation going into the pre marriage documents. One of which surely concerned wealth and property.

So basically my thoughts are this. Bernhard probably had some personal wealth, as well as gifts from his late wife, as well as what he might have earned and invested as the consort of his late wife, as well as what he might have earned by outside ventures. But the most likely scenario with his late wifes will is that everything that was hers went to her daughters and grandchildren, or was put in trust, and Bernhard was likely given an allowance both from the state as well as from his late wifes trust.
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  #69  
Old 03-29-2007, 03:28 AM
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Pre-nuptial contract Princess Juliana and Prince Bernhard

You are right.

I forgot about the pre-nuptial agreements made 71 or 72 years ago, which is a loooong time ago, but still are in force.

If in the pre-nuptial contract is determined that the possessions of Princess Juliana and her future inheritance from her mother Queen Wilhelmina are completely out of the marriage, in change for a lavish annual dotation for the Prince, then it indeed can be true what the Prince himself said: "I have inherited nothing from my late spouse".

On the exhibition 'Ja, ik wil' (on marriages in the House of Orange-Nassau) there was a golden pen, used for the signing of the marriage contracts and documents between Her Royal Highness Princess Juliana Louise Emma Marie Wilhelmina of the Netherlands, Princess of Orange-Nassau, Duchess of Mecklenburg and His Serene Highness Prince Bernhard Leopold Friedrich Eberhard Julius Kurt Karl Gottfried Peter zur Lippe-Biesterfeld born Noble Seigneur and Count zu Lippe-Biesterfeld, Count zu Schwalenberg und Sternberg.

See pic.
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  #70  
Old 04-01-2007, 07:20 AM
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Executors of the late Prince Bernhard's will

According to the reliable newspaper 'Parool', the execution of the will of the late Queen Juliana and the late Prince Bernhard is coordinated by the office of De Brauw, Blackstone & Westbroek in Amsterdam/The Hague,a renowned firm of notaries, lawyers and fiscalists.

Pierre Nijnens, a partner from this office, Jacob van Lunteren, a fiscalist and the Baron Boetzelaer van Oosterhout, a former banker are in the board of the special Stichting Bewind (Foundation Custody) which is statutary vested at Noordeinde Palace in The Hague.
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  #71  
Old 08-31-2007, 05:21 PM
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I've just been reading a wonderfully moving book by Nel Halberstadt-Elfring who was an internee at a civilian camp in Batavia, 1945. In it, she tells of her home coming when Princess Juliana came onto the boat to meet the liberated women.

'Robke (her daughter) looked over the harbour and said loudly, "Wonderful isn't it mama?". Princess Juliana heard this and bent down, scooping Robke up into her arms and kissing her. "Welcome home", said the Princess, "And God Bless You!" '.

I found that very moving.
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  #72  
Old 08-31-2007, 06:02 PM
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Thanks for sharing that story, Beatrixfan. That sounds just like Juliana indeed. At one of those visits she got rubella/german measles which caused her daughter christina to be born with very limited eyesight. She felt guilty about this for a long time which was one of the reasons she turned to faithhealer Greet Hofmans, which caused the monarchy to fall into a crisis.
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  #73  
Old 09-01-2007, 06:42 AM
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Thank you for that story, it is very sweet! Personally I always loved Juliana and I think she was the most royal of them all. She didn´t need all the pump and ceremonies to be royal, she just was it from the heart. And what a warm heart it was! Also, she never felt herself above others and she always involved the public in things. I remember her birthday celebrations on television with for example Jos Brink. I don´t see the present Queen doing something simular.
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  #74  
Old 09-01-2007, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helena View Post
Thank you for that story, it is very sweet! Personally I always loved Juliana and I think she was the most royal of them all. She didn´t need all the pump and ceremonies to be royal, she just was it from the heart. And what a warm heart it was!
Actually, contrarily to the public image of a 'sweet granny', Queen Juliana has used far more pump and circumstance that her daughter ever has done, packing out with the grandest jewels and using all the maximum tralala!



Queen Juliana was not thát common as the media loves to miscast her.
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  #75  
Old 09-06-2007, 06:47 PM
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According to RTL Boulevard there was an article in ´the Guardian´ in June that Prince Bernhard was offered 60.000 pounds in 1967 to ´promote´ British militairy material in the Netherlands. It is insinuated that he was bribed.There isn´t an enormous amount of evidence though, just one letter.

According to Marc van der Linden (not reliable but in thisit makes sense) Dutch newspapers thus far have refused to publish the document.

RVD: no comment.
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  #76  
Old 09-10-2007, 04:07 AM
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More on this in Dutch:

Royalblog
De Stentor

--

The article in the Guardian can be found here.

from that article:

Quote:
Brown went on to offer, according to the files, to bribe "an influential person in Dutch government circles" with Ł50,000 to sell Centurion tanks.

"An influential person in Dutch government circles is known to us and he is willing to assist us by promoting interest in the tank. We intend therefore to make an arrangement with this person."
A civil servant at the Treasury identified him as Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands, consort to the Dutch queen and, as far as well-placed businessmen there were concerned, widely known to be on the take.
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  #77  
Old 09-10-2007, 05:50 AM
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It is only speculation,the army contract the british were more then willing to bribe for never occurred,as mentioned in a 1967 memo from the MoD to the Treasury,as the dutch army aquired 415 far superior german Leopard tanks instead.It was a civil servant at the MoD who later wrote "Bernhard?" on the document.

The Guardian also mentions the fact that "bribes blend in with a longstanding british tradition".There never has been a transfer of funds in this case.
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Old 09-20-2007, 06:08 PM
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Phillip Droge, who previously wrote a book about the wealth of the RF now wrote a book about the Nazi past of Prince Bernhard. Apparently he has found new facts, Droge says he kept in tough with the SS even after his marriage to Juliana. The contact was that Bernhard helped his former commander and friend Walter Mundelich. The commander became one of the commanders of a Dutch concentration camps but the Prince helped Walter to evade judgement for crimes of war. Note that Prince Benrhard and Droge had some sort of vendetta. Bernhard denied most alligations in his letter to de Volkskrant and named Droge in this letter. Of course he didn´t have the chance to defend himself about this. And to be honest, Droge isn´t enormously reliable.
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
Phillip Droge, who previously wrote a book about the wealth of the RF now wrote a book about the Nazi past of Prince Bernhard. Apparently he has found new facts, Droge says he kept in tough with the SS even after his marriage to Juliana. The contact was that Bernhard helped his former commander and friend Walter Mundelich. The commander became one of the commanders of a Dutch concentration camps but the Prince helped Walter to evade judgement for crimes of war. Note that Prince Benrhard and Droge had some sort of vendetta. Bernhard denied most alligations in his letter to de Volkskrant and named Droge in this letter. Of course he didn´t have the chance to defend himself about this. And to be honest, Droge isn´t enormously reliable.
I highly doubt Dröge had access to archives,at all.He just can't stop kicking while a man already is down,and dead,and make a buck of it.Surely Bernhard was no saint,but he was vigorously anti-german from before the war,during the war and a long while after.This
contact points to the period very shortly after the war,say late '45 and 1946 when the trials were staged against the war criminals,
he (Bernhard) would never have meddled with that without us knowing about it by now,worse info surfaced while he was alive,so this
would have surely "hit the fan" in a far earlyer stage if true.I think.
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Old 09-21-2007, 07:17 AM
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Apparently Princess Juliana was worried by possible dementia.A few before she became seriously ill and suffered from loss of memory,she was already afraid of that prospect.During a luncheon at the Amsterdam RAI in 1988,during a symposium on dementia,she already expressed her worries on the matter to Mr.Huub Buijssen,a clinical psygologist.

As an expert on the issue,Mr. Buijssen was present as the main speaker of the symposium and sat next to the Princess during lunch."Mr.Buijssen,I keep forgetting so many things lately.Could I be suffering from dementia too?"

Mr.Buijssen then put her at ease by saying that most people who complain about forgetting things are far from dementia.
He then proceeded by asking her some usual test questions;"Do you remember what you had for dinner last night?".She knew."Do you know who is the Queen of The Netherlands?"Ofcourse she knew,her daughter."Well then,there's nothing wrong".That put her at ease.

A book by Mr.Buijssen on dementia is to be published today on occasion of World Alzheimer Day,today.

http://www.royalblog.nl/

Courtesy HJA.
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