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  #101  
Old 05-14-2016, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
It has nothing to do with trends. In the UK we have the Guardian and until recently the Independent who for years have wanted a Republic. In Denmark they have Ekstra Bladet.

And there is a myth that most of the media in Sweden wants a Republic, but thats not true, because I don't think they are critical at all. And the King has gotten away with most of his scandals.

When it comes to Norway: we is that country out of these 4 who have most debate on the monarchy.

There were TV-debates about the monarchy constantly from 1998 until they were taken off the air due to financial problems in the media in 2010.

It flared up again in 2013 (this time in the newspapers) because of the so-called scandals surrounding Haakon and Mette-Marit and the fact that the experts started accusing them of interfering in politics. They are also criticized for being snobbish and that they should be more like the King and Queen.

But as I've said in my above post: Scandals around Haakon and Mette-Marit in the past 3 years have weakened the monarchy's position in the Labour Party and the media, but as several experts says: There will never be any referendum as long as the King lives because that would mean political suicide, and probably not under Haakon's reign either. Because if Haakon and Mette-Marit stays away from trouble/scandals, then the monarchy will win by a large margin (propably by 70 to 80%) in a possible referendum.

I can't speak for the Netherlands, Belgium and Spain, because I don't follow these monarchies, and I don't speak the languages. And that should be discussed in their respective threads and not here.


You are wrong. We've had record high support for the UK and Danish monarchies in many polls for the last 4 years and some of the best polls for the monarchy in Norway (with the exception of a VG poll in 2014) for the last 10 years.

And most people will never replace a constitutional monarchy with an divisive president who will cost as much if not even more.

And please don't reply to my post, because I will never agree with you. But can I ask - are you from a country with a monarchy? Because everything of what you have written does not match with the facts.

And when it comes to Duc_et_Pair's comment:

You don't speak Danish, Norwegian or Swedish or do you? And as I and other have told you several times: If the Royals had lived as they did in the 50s and married each other, then the monarchies had been abolished long ago. And as most experts say, and as I am 110% sure of: The UK, Denmark and Norway (if Haakon and Mette-Marit stays away of trouble) will still be monarchies in 2100.

The same with Sweden (although the Swedish monarchy is not as strong as the monarchies mentioned above) and as I also have told you several times before: If the Spanish monarchy should be abolished, it will have notting to say for the UK, Denmark, Norway or Sweden.

And when it comes to me: I have a British Mother who live in the UK wit her family and a Norwegian father who live in Norway with his family. I'm the opposite of conservative and supports the Labour Party both in the UK and Norway, and I was born in 1988.

I am big fan of my two monarch Queen (Elizabeth II) and some of her family members, and King Harald and some of his family members. But I also suports the constitutional monarchy as an institution.


Experts disagree about that too, but the only party that wants a republic (the very small party SV which can be voted out of parliament in the election next year) agree with the other few politicians who support a republic that it should only be done with a referendum, but one expert who supports republic believes that the only way for Norway to become a republic is if the royal family go voluntarily because they can't bear the pressure any longer.

SV has campaigned for a republic since being formed in 1975. They even took it up for vote in Parliament on the day King Olav suffered a stroke in 1990.

They wants a committee who shall come up with how a republic/president should work and then have a referendum.

And to others posters here, it's only the Norwegian monarchy who shall be discussed in this thread.

If there are bad writing in my post, this is because I have difficulty reading what I writes due to dyslexia.
Monarchy lives by the support of the people
In times of crises there will always be more criticism, due to costs

The weakest point about monarchy for me personally is heredity.
And yes, I live in a monarchy and I am a believer in a united Europe (the only way to survive our future problems is to be united) and I don't think that that will be under a european monarch
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  #102  
Old 05-14-2016, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
We will wait and see if the existing monarchies have made the right choices indeed to ensure popular support needed to continue their existence ( I dare not to say "reign" as this means nothing at all).

Calling someone "pompous" because of the expressed regret about the disappearance of standards, values and norms which once shaped today's royal and aristocratic families is hmmm... weak.
It is pompous to denounce someone for the sins of their fathers, as in the case of Queen Maxima, a woman who has done nothing to deserve derogatory remarks from anyone. It is pompous to demand that royalty only marry equal to deserve support and a continued position of trust in a society. The Norwegian Crown Princess has worked hard to overcome her start in life, and most Norwegians admire that. I am quite sure the Norwegian monarchy would be neither more or less safe if the Crown Prince had found a royal or serene Princess to marry.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say it might had been a bigger risk to the monarchy, adding to the criticism that it is an elitist and detailed form of government, not belonging to our time.

Whether or not one is regal, is more predicated on personal qualities, abilities and hard work than it is on being born to a certain station in life. One can be more than regal, dignified and hard-working enough to be a valued member of a RF, without being born into one, and in the end, if you're in a position to reign from a RF, you're born into it. The ones who join a RF from the outside, become consorts at the most, and just like born royalty, some of them carry themselves well and a few don't.

You'll find that in any family. Even inter-married, deep blue ones. C'est la vie, non?
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  #103  
Old 05-14-2016, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
These remaining European monarchies survived these revolutions, uproars, World Wars with royalborn spouses anyway. In Norway it were Princess Maud of Wales and Princess Märtha of Sweden. In Sweden it were Princess Viktoria von Baden, Princess Margaret of Counnaught, Princess Sibylla von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha. Apparently their darkblue-blooded descent was no hindrance for the survival of the monarchies in Norway and Sweden.

Well, that prooves that it is totally irrelevant of what origin spouses are, but if they manage to be popular in their countries.
I don´t hope you favour a "solution" like having been made by the Prince of Wales and his former mistress back in the 1970s for other Royals - we all know how this ended....! Or are you really that naive, that a person being in love simply forgetting his/ her partner just like a press of a button after gotten married a "fitting" partner?!
But I don´t want to go into THAT discussion with you again - there´s just no point.... This is the monarchy vs republic thread!
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  #104  
Old 05-14-2016, 12:16 PM
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This thread isn't about Queen Maxima, Queen Letizia or Prince Daniel. Let's stick to discussing the Norwegian monarchy.
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  #105  
Old 02-18-2017, 04:14 PM
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Record support to the monarchy in poll by (the very serious/reliable) Norstat for NRK, and record support by the young. It was the main news story in Norway's largest news program. Experts are surprised by the support (due to the Crown Prince couple's scandals and bad choices) but think the reason may be King Harald's extreme popularity:
http://nrk.no/norge/8-av-10-vil-beho...nge-1.13383378

Do you support that Norway is a monarchy, or will you change to another form of government, such as Republic?

Overall:
Monarchy 81%
Republikk 15%
Don't know 4%

Men:
Monarchy 79
Republikk 16
Don't know 5

Woman:
Monarchy 82
Republikk 14
Don't know 4

Under 30 years:
Monarchy 82%
Republikk 12%
Don't know 6%

30-39 years:
Monarchy 85%
Republikk 11%
Don't know 5%

40-49 years:
Monarchy 79%
Republikk 17%
Don't know 4%

50 + years:
Monarchy 79%
Republikk 18%
Don't know 4%

Similar polls from 2005, 2007, 2009, 2012 and 2015 showed 70% support for the monarchy.

A poll by Norstat showed 82% support for the monarchy in 2014, but people didn't had the opportunity to say don't know.
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  #106  
Old 02-18-2017, 05:20 PM
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I am glad that support for the monarchy in Norway is strong.
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  #107  
Old 02-18-2017, 08:11 PM
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These are figures any politician would give his eye teeth for, and gladden this monarchist's heart. However, I do wonder, as with Queen Elizabeth in Britain, whether some is the result of a stable, long-lived and popular monarch being on the throne. Might those figures go down a bit when Haakon becomes King?
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  #108  
Old 02-19-2017, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
These are figures any politician would give his eye teeth for, and gladden this monarchist's heart. However, I do wonder, as with Queen Elizabeth in Britain, whether some is the result of a stable, long-lived and popular monarch being on the throne. Might those figures go down a bit when Haakon becomes King?
The numbers always fluctuate when there is a change of sovereign, that would not be something uniquely Norwegian, if it were to take place. The King has said publicly he was convinced he would struggle to gain the position his father, His late Majesty King Olav V had, and as 25 years has proven, he was blissfully wrong.
A good, dutiful and steadfast monarch will always be embraced in Norway, and as these numbers show, even in future, the monarchy has solid grounds of support.
Sometimes what is 'tabloidly' called a scandal happens within the Royal Family as well, because it's made up of actual people who won't always be able to please 80%+ of people with their words or choices, but when those waves settle, the Norwegian monarchy is as much a staple of tomorrow as it is of yesterday, and will be just as safe in the hands of the Crown Prince as they are in the hands of the King.
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  #109  
Old 02-19-2017, 04:06 PM
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One of many articles about this amazing poll:
Stadig flere vil beholde kongehuset - hegnar.no
Quote:
The support around the royal house is growing - eight out of ten Norwegians say they support the monarchy.

The survey conducted by Norstat for NRK shows that support for the monarchy is growing. In 2005, seven out of ten answered that they supported the monarchy, while in the recent survey, eight out of ten said that they support the royal house.

The support is highest in Northern Norway and in the south with Telemark, while it is lowest in Oslo with 69 percent.

The survey shows that more women than men support the monarchy, and that the support is highest in the 30-39 age group (85 percent), while the the second highest support are among those under 30 (82 percent).

''It is the most dynamic age group, and it bodes well for the monarchy. It expresses a desire for a national stability in a troubled time, and the king shapes our self-image'', says author and royal biographer Tor Bomann-Larsen.

''One might imagine that the support was strongest in the oldest groups, so it's interesting. It confirms that the King is on the right course'', he said.

Overall, 81 per cent responded that they support the monarchy, 15 percent want a different form of government, while 4 percent responded in the survey that they don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
These are figures any politician would give his eye teeth for, and gladden this monarchist's heart. However, I do wonder, as with Queen Elizabeth in Britain, whether some is the result of a stable, long-lived and popular monarch being on the throne. Might those figures go down a bit when Haakon becomes King?
I'm a big fan of both the Crown Prince and Crown Princess and I like that they are trying to make Norway an even better and more inclusive society (as King Harald and Queen Sonja have done since they married in 1968), but they do it in a wrong way.

After the criticism from people/media calmed down after the wedding in 2001, both Haakon and Mette-Marit become very popular (I would say even more popular than what Frederik and Mary are in Denmark now). They got some criticism for the controversial journey they went on in 2010/2011, but it calmed down quickly. Their approval ratings were above 80% until early 2013.

In the last 3 years, this has unfortunately changed. They have been criticized for being friends with wealthy people, politicians, actors, for going on luxury boat-trips and for taking the children out of the public school etc.

And this is not well received in a country where the Law of Jante is still very present. And as a female Danish expert said when Queen Margrethe celebrated her 75th birthday: It's much harder to be royal in Norway than in Denmark and Sweden because everyone expects you to be like them.

Haakon: He interferes in politics, uses the royal court's money to build organizations and is bad at dealing with the media.

Mette-Marit: She's even worse at dealing with the media and gets cranky when she gets asked critical questions.

Many expert/journalists (who are very pro royal) is concerned about the monarchy's future when Haakon becomes king. And even worse: He has said that he will not change when he becomes King.

Haakon will also have an enormous task of taking over after King Harald, who is extremely popular.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRohan View Post
The numbers always fluctuate when there is a change of sovereign, that would not be something uniquely Norwegian, if it were to take place. The King has said publicly he was convinced he would struggle to gain the position his father, His late Majesty King Olav V had, and as 25 years has proven, he was blissfully wrong.
A good, dutiful and steadfast monarch will always be embraced in Norway, and as these numbers show, even in future, the monarchy has solid grounds of support.
Sometimes what is 'tabloidly' called a scandal happens within the Royal Family as well, because it's made up of actual people who won't always be able to please 80%+ of people with their words or choices, but when those waves settle, the Norwegian monarchy is as much a staple of tomorrow as it is of yesterday, and will be just as safe in the hands of the Crown Prince as they are in the hands of the King.
1. Harald was a shy but popular crown prince who never interfered in political affairs. So he can not be compared with Haakon.

2. You write that, the monarchy ''will be just as safe in the hands of the Crown Prince as they are in the hands of the King''.

If he does not change? Then I'm not so sure about that.

If he change? Then I agree.
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  #110  
Old 04-03-2017, 12:59 PM
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Polls under King Olav V:

The monarchy was never criticized by the media under King Olav (with the exception of when Harald married Sonja) and it was therefore almost no polls.

Had the press done their job in the 70s and 80s (according to experts) so had the support been much lower. (I would say less than 50%)

I've read about a poll that was done in the 1970s, but I don't remember where. I think it had the support for the monarchy at around 70%.

1986: Monarchy 90%. This poll (the only one that was made in the 1980's) is mentioned in several articles, but it is not any more information about it.

There were some polls in the 1960s too, but it's impossible to find any information about them.

This is all the polls that have been done on the monarchy in Norway since King Harald V acceded to the throne in 1991:

In Norway, it's not common that we get information from the media or those who perform the polls on how the questions are asked. It's not always we get information about how many that support a republic or says ''don't know'' either.

MMI for Dagbladet:

May 2000: Monarchy 71% (the first poll since 1986)

September 2000: Monarchy 67%

December 2000 Monarchy 66%

April 2001: Monarchy 59% Republic 23% Don't know 18%

Summer 2001: Monarchy 58%

November 2001: Monarchy 68% Republic 15% Don't know 17%

TNS Gallup for TV2:

December 2003: Monarchy 66.5% Republic 28%

January 2016: Monarchy 67.1% Republic 32.9%

This is as an expert said, an idiotic poll which always has the support lower than others. They only ask the people who have an opinion.

They also did a poll (in what I think was) in 2000 and one (in what I think was) in 2007, but I can't find any information about them.

Norwegian Monitor (a major survey conducted by Ipsos Norway:

Should Norway be a Monarchy or a Republic?

2003: Monarchy 68: 8% Republic 24.2%

2005: Monarchy 63% Republic 22.2%

2007: Monarchy 65.5% Republic 21.6%

2009: Monarchy 66.9% Republic 19.3%

2011: Monarchy 71.8% Republic 16.8%

2013: Monarchy 70.3% Republic 16.7%

Opinion for Aftenposten:

January 2004: Monarchy 75%

October 2015: Do you think that Norway should remain a monarchy, or do you think Norway should become a Republic? Monarchy: 72% Republic 17% Don't know 10%

Infact for VG:

May 2009: Monarchy 71% Republic 17% Don't know 12%

May 2012: Should Norway remain a monarchy? Yes 74.6% No 14.8 Don't know 10.5

May 2014: Should the monarchy be abolished? No 65.4% Yes 19% Do not know 15.6

February 2017: Should Norway continue as a monarchy? Yes 71.5% No 15.2% Don't know 13.3%

Opinion for NRK:

November 2005: Monarchy 70% Republic 20% Don't know 10%

Norstat for NRK:

May 2014: Monarchy 82% Republic 18%

February 2017: Do you support that Norway is a monarchy, or will you change to another form of government, such as a Republic?

Overall:
Monarchy 81%
Republic 15%
Don't know 4%

Men:
Monarki 79
Republic 16
Don't know 5

Woman:
Monarki 82
Republic 14
Don't know 4

Under 30 years:
Monarchy 82%
Republic 12%
Don't know 6%

30-39:
Monarki 85%
Republic 11%
Don't know 5%

40-49:
Monarchy 79%
Republic 17%
Don't know 4%

50+ years:
Monarchy 79%
Republic 18%
Don't know 4%
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  #111  
Old 04-03-2017, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
One of many articles about this amazing poll:
Stadig flere vil beholde kongehuset - hegnar.no

And this is not well received in a country where the Law of Jante is still very present. And as a female Danish expert said when Queen Margrethe celebrated her 75th birthday: It's much harder to be royal in Norway than in Denmark and Sweden because everyone expects you to be like them.
I apologize for my ignorance, but I had to google "Law of Jante" to know what it was. The explanation I got from the Wikipedia link looks satisfactory, but maybe you would care to explain the meaning yourself for the sake of the broader audience.
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  #112  
Old 04-03-2017, 05:49 PM
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I hope people find post 110 interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I apologize for my ignorance, but I had to google "Law of Jante" to know what it was. The explanation I got from the Wikipedia link looks satisfactory, but maybe you would care to explain the meaning yourself for the sake of the broader audience.
I urge those who are interested to read (as you did) the Wikipedia article about it. In addition to the their explanation, I must add that the Law of Jante (Janteloven in Norwegian) is much more present in Norway than in the other Scandinavian countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...ecial%3ASearch

I will now try to explain how the Law of Jante has affected Haakon and Mette-Marit's popularity:

As I said in post 109: After the criticism from people/media calmed down after the wedding in 2001, both Haakon and Mette-Marit become very popular (I would say even more popular than what Frederik and Mary are in Denmark now). They got some criticism for the controversial journey they went on in 2010/2011, but it calmed down quickly. Their approval ratings were above 80% until early 2013.

This was because we liked that they were like us, we liked that Mette-Marit had a history and we liked that Haakon was a caring stepfather to Marius.

In the last 3 years, this has unfortunately changed. Let me make some examples:

They have been criticized for:

1. They took the children out of the public school etc.

Most Norwegians reacted like this: They think they're better than everyone else. They don't think that the public school is good enough for them. Who the heck do they think they are.

2. Being friends with wealthy people, politicians, actors and for going on luxury boat-trips etc.

Most Norwegians reacted like this: They are snobbish. They are not like the King. They live like royalty did in the past. They are trying to reintroduce the nobility in Norway etc.

3. Haakon: He interferes in politics, uses the royal court's money to build organizations and is bad at dealing with the media.

Most Norwegians reacted like this: He behaves like a politician. He is arrogant etc.

4. Mette-Marit: She's even worse at dealing with the media and gets cranky when she gets asked critical questions. And she uses expensive clothing.

Most Norwegians reacted like this: She is arrogant. She can't handle criticism. She is snobbish. She is too grand etc.

Queen Sonja was also criticized for being snobbish, a bit cold and too grand, but it has calmed down over the past 10 years.
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  #113  
Old 04-03-2017, 06:54 PM
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thank you for the explanation. Very interesting
I has seen some articles on Haakon's use of the public money and properties.
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  #114  
Old 04-03-2017, 07:46 PM
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I want to add that I was not aware that it had been done so many polls on the monarchy (like the ones I went through earlier in the day in post 110) before I and a colleague started going through them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by polyesco View Post
thank you for the explanation. Very interesting
I has seen some articles on Haakon's use of the public money and properties.
You're very welcome!

That is another thing, but yes, he is criticized for that too.

He is even criticized for his visit to Liberia.
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  #115  
Old 04-07-2017, 10:20 AM
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Royal Norway: I have learned very much from your informative posts.

Norway: Republic or monarchy?

I can see that support for monarchy grew between 2005 and 2011 and that it is lower among Norwegians who are older than 50 years of age.

Why were critics of the monarchy cowed into silence under King Olav V? Was it the same with King Haakon VII?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROYAL NORWAY View Post
[...]Their approval ratings were above 80% until early 2013.

This was because we liked that they were like us, we liked that Mette-Marit had a history and we liked that Haakon was a caring stepfather to Marius.

In the last 3 years, this has unfortunately changed. Let me make some examples:

They have been criticized for:

1. They took the children out of the public school etc.

Most Norwegians reacted like this: They think they're better than everyone else. They don't think that the public school is good enough for them. Who the heck do they think they are.

2. Being friends with wealthy people, politicians, actors and for going on luxury boat-trips etc.

Most Norwegians reacted like this: They are snobbish. They are not like the King. They live like royalty did in the past. They are trying to reintroduce the nobility in Norway etc.

[...]
It is pleasingly demonstrative of Norwegian culture that Norwegians do not criticize their royal family for being "common", quite the contrary.
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