Princess Lilian of Belgium (2nd wife of King Leopold III)

[Nico]

Just read the biography of the Princess by Olivier DeFrance and i must say i'm not disapointed.
The point of view is unbiased, so if the Princess of Rethy was not a saint, she was not the evil stepmother either. Clearly She was a woman with a strong character and didn't hesitate to show it, for the better or worse. She was not politically correct for sure, and the politicians hated her (and she hated them in return) ! The result was these incredibly violent smear campaigns from the press in the 50's and 60's, stories (often untrue or exagerated) still believed by many nowadays (no she was not a Nazi sympathiser , no she didn't steal the furniture from Laeken..).
As her relations with her children ans stepchildren, she was loved and respected by them, sometimes too much as the young Baudoin was clearly mesmerised by her. In this family she wanted to play center stage, and it didn't go well with Paola and Fabiola. At the end she was ejected from this family after 20 years, for whatever reason (the only guess is that she, along Leopold III, clearly knew that Fabiola was sterile).
It's a great book about a fascinating figure, far from the usual cliché about a woman "too beautiful to be totally innocent".

 

[maria-olivia]

I did not buy the book , but thanks Nico for your point of vue.
In this book it was said that in 1960 King Leopold III had a Mistress since 5 years and wanted to divorce.

 

[Nico]

I did not buy the book , but thanks Nico for your point of vue.
In this book it was said that in 1960 King Leopold III had a Mistress since 5 years and wanted to divorce.

Indeed ! In fact it was in 1962 and it was Lilian who wanted the divorce. This French mistress was even a guest of Queen Elisabeth in Stuyvenberg and spent some times in Paris with Marie-José ! Lilian felt understandably betrayed. The divorce was seen as a sin by Baudouin and Fabiola, and the author thinks it's maybe one othe cause of the breakup with Argenteuil.

 

[Zonk]

I so wish I could read Dutch or the book was published in English.

Lillian is such an interesting character, and this book might answer a lot of questions.

For example, was she and the King involved prior to Astrid's death? I do recall reading that the King was unfaithful to Astrid as well.

I can't blame her for being hurt by an affair, and to find out that family members knew about it? Oh though to be fair, what could do they do to stop it? You certainly don't entertain the mistress though.

 

[Nico]

I so wish I could read Dutch or the book was published in English.

Lillian is such an interesting character, and this book might answer a lot of questions.

For example, was she and the King involved prior to Astrid's death? I do recall reading that the King was unfaithful to Astrid as well.

I can't blame her for being hurt by an affair, and to find out that family members knew about it? Oh though to be fair, what could do they do to stop it? You certainly don't entertain the mistress though.

Nope they were not lovers before Astrid's death. It's an other sad myth about Lilian.

 

[Zonk]

What I know about Lilian, I know from this forum and Wikipedia...which isn't saying much.

So I am curious on why you say that she was ejected from the BRF? Didn't she isolate herself towards the end but didn't that have more to do with the death of her husband, and the rise of her stepson?

 

[Marengo]

Thank you for your review Nico, it is much appreciated. I just checked the book on Lannoo publishing house and I may buy it. I feared that the book was only available in French (due to the authors name perhaps) but fortunate it is also in Dutch.

The explanation for the bad relationship between Fabiola and Lilian may be a credible one indeed. Though I understood the relationship between Leopold and Baudouin soured largely because Leopold wanted to influence his sons relationship with his ministers and continued treating Baudouin as a child. When he wasn't able to do this he became more bitter and difficult.

*
Something different: earlier on this thread was called 'Princess Liliane'. I changed it since somebody pointed out that the name was Lilian. However, I just did a quick search through our Dutch newspaper archives and they catagorically use Liliane. Is that something that happened in Flemish newspapers too? Or did our Dutch press want to make the name more French than it was?

Edit: I found some Flemish sources that refer to Liliane too, even in a biography of Gaston Eyskens. It seems that only around the year 2000 they all went for the correct form, without the e. Odd.

 

[Nico]

What I know about Lilian, I know from this forum and Wikipedia...which isn't saying much.

So I am curious on why you say that she was ejected from the BRF? Didn't she isolate herself towards the end but didn't that have more to do with the death of her husband, and the rise of her stepson?

The relations inside the royal family were excellent until 1960 and the marriage of Baudoin and Fabiola ( Paola had already some words with Lillian though ...). After the wedding Leopold, Lilian, and the three younger children moved from Laeken to Argenteuil . The next year Baudoin told to his father that he didn't want to see Lilian anymore. Albert told the same thing and Joséphine Charlotte followed her brothers the next year. Again the reason remains à mistery. The family remained more or less torn apart until Lilian's own death in 2002.

 

[Nico]

Something different: earlier on this thread was called 'Princess Liliane'. I changed it since somebody pointed out that the name was Lilian. However, I just did a quick search through our Dutch newspaper archives and they catagorically use Liliane. Is that something that happened in Flemish newspapers too? Or did our Dutch press want to make the name more French than it was?

She was born in London and her name was definitely Mary Lilian. I guess the very French Lilianne is à common mistake, seen in the Belgian press as Well.

 

[maria-olivia]

alas, Zonk is right. Leopold III was unfaithful to Astrid too.

 

[rominet09]

The relations inside the royal family were excellent until 1960 and the marriage of Baudoin and Fabiola ( Paola had already some words with Lillian though ...). After the wedding Leopold, Lilian, and the three younger children moved from Laeken to Argenteuil . The next year Baudoin told to his father that he didn't want to see Lilian anymore. Albert told the same thing and Joséphine Charlotte followed her brothers the next year. Again the reason remains à mistery. The family remained more or less torn apart until Lilian's own death in 2002.

It is widely known in Belgium that, when they moved to Argenteuil they took an important amount of furniture without asking of course. This caused a major break up in the family. Besides, as a Belgian I can tell you Lilian was HATED by the people of Belgium, as Astrid was ADORED ! I remember my grandmother who after SEVERAL décades was still crying about her untimely death !!!!

 

[melina premiere]

I am french but my grand mother cried a lot of years after the death of Queen Astrid, she said me that it was tragic because she was Young, she had three very Young children and she was expecting an another child, she hated the princess Lilian . When I asked her why she hated Princess Lilian, she answered me that she did not know only she said me also that she took the place of Queen Astrid

 

[Biri]

They got close after the death of Queen Astrid - King Leopold was a widower and had right to set his life again.

 

[COUNTESS]

And Lilian was a very lovely women. Baudoin, Albert and Josephine -Charlotte were close to her and their half siblings. Many outsiders made up these awful stories. I do nor know what the true story is, that caused the rift. .

 

[Hannelore]

I don't think the relations were "excellent" between Lilian and her stepchildren up to 1960. In a large interview a few years ago, king Albert II said that as a teenager he found it hard to accept his stepmother's authority... So that must have been in the 1950s (Albert was born in 1934).

Maybe that remark contains more valuable info than the speculation that "Léopold & Lilian knew about Fabiola being sterile" because, first of all, Fabiola suffered 5 miscarriages. Not being able to carry a pregnancy to term is very different from being unable to conceive - and so how could they know beforehand?

Secondly, I think Lilian's character made her a very difficult woman to live with. As her youngest -and most docile- daughter Esméralda has often stated in the press, Lilian was very stubborn and authoritarian. I'm convinced she was a fascinating, intelligent and fun character - not even mentionning her style and mesmerizing beauty, but I don't think there was anything moderate about her. And I think the rift in the family is simply due to that trait.

 

[Nico]

It is widely known in Belgium that, when they moved to Argenteuil they took an important amount of furniture without asking of course. This caused a major break up in the family. Besides, as a Belgian I can tell you Lilian was HATED by the people of Belgium, as Astrid was ADORED ! I remember my grandmother who after SEVERAL décades was still crying about her untimely death !!!!

According to this new biography, the furniture story is more or less a myth and was not the real reason of the breakup.

Maybe that remark contains more valuable info than the speculation that "Léopold & Lilian knew about Fabiola being sterile" because, first of all, Fabiola suffered 5 miscarriages. Not being able to carry a pregnancy to term is very different from being unable to conceive - and so how could they know beforehand?

Olivier De France has access for the first time to the private archives of the late Princess. He found some belgian and spanish medical records from 1959-1960 stating that Fabiola was indeed sterile. More extraordianry is that Leopold III and Fabiola's mother has a secret meeting in Paris about it. Apparently before Baudoin, Fabiola was engaged in Spain, but the engagement was broken due to the fact that she was unable to carry a child.

 

[rominet09]

I am french but my grand mother cried a lot of years after the death of Queen Astrid, she said me that it was tragic because she was Young, she had three very Young children and she was expecting an another child, she hated the princess Lilian . When I asked her why she hated Princess Lilian, she answered me that she did not know only she said me also that she took the place of Queen Astrid

Thank you, now I must tell this. I had a collegue at the office who was born with a heart defect, it was around 60 years ago.
As Prince Alexandre was born with heart problems, Liliane vowed to pay for heart surgery for other children whose parent applied to her.
My collegue's parents wrote Lilian and were asked to provide a full file of the case.
To cut a long story short, my collegue had surgery and her family didn't pay a thing.... not even the bottles of water in the hospital... Liliane paid ALL.

 

[Mbruno]

According to this new biography, the furniture story is more or less a myth and was not the real reason of the breakup.




Olivier De France has access for the first time to the private archives of the late Princess. He found some belgian and spanish medical records from 1959-1960 stating that Fabiola was indeed sterile. More extraordianry is that Leopold III and Fabiola's mother has a secret meeting in Paris about it. Apparently before Baudoin, Fabiola was engaged, but the engagement was broken due to the fact that she was unable to carry a child.

Are you saying that Leopold III (and, by implication, most likely Lilian) knew beforehand that Fabiola was sterile and deliberately concealed that information from Baudouin prior to his marriage ? Or did Baudouin also know about it and choose to go ahead with the wedding nonetheless ?

 

[rominet09]

According to this new biography, the furniture story is more or less a myth and was not the real reason of the breakup.




Olivier De France has access for the first time to the private archives of the late Princess. He found some belgian and spanish medical records from 1959-1960 stating that Fabiola was indeed sterile. More extraordianry is that Leopold III and Fabiola's mother has a secret meeting in Paris about it. Apparently before Baudoin, Fabiola was engaged, but the engagement was broken due to the fact that she was unable to carry a child.

She told herself that she had had five miscarriage and among them a very late one

 

[Nico]

Are you saying that Leopold III (and, by implication, most likely Lilian) knew beforehand that Fabiola was sterile and deliberately concealed that information from Baudouin prior to his marriage ? Or did Baudouin also know about it and choose to go ahead with the wedding nonetheless ?

It seems a fact now that Lilian and Leopold knew that Fabiola was sterile, and that Lilian more or less said shas she was not a good choice for Baudoin, as she was unable to produce an heir (don't forget that the engagement with Baudoin was a big surprise for them) Apparently they made some research in Spain too. After the wedding, Baudoin and Fabiola discovered these invetigations and decided to break all ties with Lilian.

 

[Nico]

Thank you, now I must tell this. I had a collegue at the office who was born with a heart defect, it was around 60 years ago.
As Prince Alexandre was born with heart problems, Liliane vowed to pay for heart surgery for other children whose parent applied to her.
My collegue's parents wrote Lilian and were asked to provide a full file of the case.
To cut a long story short, my collegue had surgery and her family didn't pay a thing.... not even the bottles of water in the hospital... Liliane paid ALL.

The Fondation cardiologique Princesse Lilian is indeed her biggest achievement, so many lives saved thanks to her work !
A pity that it's always overshadowed by Lilian's, let's say, bad reputation in Belgium.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It seems a fact now that Lilian and Leopold knew that Fabiola was sterile, and that Lilian more or less said shas she was not a good choice for Baudoin, as she was unable to produce an heir [...]

That is not possible. Queen Fabiola had five miscarriages and one stillborn. That means she was not sterile at all. And how could they ever have known anyway?

 

[Nico]

That is not possible. Queen Fabiola had five miscarriages and one stillborn. That means she was not sterile at all. And how could they ever have known anyway?

Fabiola's mother told to Leopold and Lilian that the previous engagement of Fabiola to a spaniard noble was broken due to this "problem".
Again, Olivier DeFrance found some medical records in Lilian's private archives, and the proof that Leopold met secretely Fabiola's mother in Paris.

Olivier DeFrance is not the only one to give some details about this story :
See at 44:50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7fK4j1C9TA

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

But "sterile" means, in my understanding, that a lady does not conceive and can not form fruit. Doña Fabiola did. Six times even.

 

[Nico]

I agree, sterile is maybe the wrong word. But she was clearly unable to give birth anyway. And Lilian and Leopold knew it.
I guess there's WAY more to know about all this story...

 

[Mbruno]

But "sterile" means, in my understanding, that a lady does not conceive and can not form fruit. Doña Fabiola did. Six times even.

I believe Nico meant Leopold and Lilian knew that Fabiola could not carry a baby to term. Wrong technical choice of words, but still the same point. If they knew that and deliberately concealed that information from Baudouin, it would be indeed a very serious issue.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

How can someone in Belgium know that an aristocrat lady somewhere in Madrid is not able to carry a baby to term? Is it überhaupt possible at all to claim that someone is not able to carry a child? Queen Fabiola gave birth to a stillborn child. Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands suffered miscarriages and had a stillborn son too, exactly like Queen Fabiola... Only in the eighth year of her marriage, after attempts in vain, Queen Wilhelmina succeed to give birth (to Queen Juliana). This means that also Queen Fabiola had the chance to give birth as well.

 

[Lee-Z]

How can someone in Belgium know that an aristocrat lady somewhere in Madrid is not able to carry a baby to term? Is it überhaupt possible at all to claim that someone is not able to carry a child? Queen Fabiola gave birth to a stillborn child. Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands suffered miscarriages and had a stillborn son too, exactly like Queen Fabiola... Only in the eighth year of her marriage, after attempts in vain, Queen Wilhelmina succeed to give birth (to Queen Juliana). This means that also Queen Fabiola had the chance to give birth as well.

Unless it is proven that Q.Wilhelmina had the same cause for her difficulties carrying a baby fullterm are the same as Q.Fabiola's, I absolutely don't see the point why you would feel the need to drag a comparison to another royal in this thread...

As far as we know Q.Fabiola had several miscarriages and stilbirths, but apparently this new book about P.Lilian has some new information in this matter, so it would be interesting to know what the new information was....however...not in a thread about P.Lilian and not with comparisons to other royals

 

[Biri]

But even if they new, there was still Albert and his heirs, before Leopold and Lilian's children.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

For me it is impossible that Léopold and Lilian knew about the fertility and chances of carrying a baby full term by a Doña Fabiola somewhere in Madrid. Even now, in 2016, it is difficult to tell. Being aware or not: King Baudouin married his Spanish love anyway.