Princess Liliane of Belgium (2nd wife of King Leopold III)

[Regina]

Liliane was certainly a very elegant woman. I read once that late Count of Paris said she was the most beautiful woman of her times.

[Marengo]

A dutch minister and later NATO Secretary General Joseph Luns was more nasty, he said she was a pretty woman but had horrible legs, which she usually hid well

[queenofcelts]

Lilian certainly was a remarkable woman.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by Marengo

A dutch minister and later NATO Secretary General Joseph Luns was more nasty, he said she was a pretty woman but had horrible legs, which she usually hid well

He's not the only person who dissed her legs....I also read that in a biography of King Baudouin. They used nicer language of course!

[Jo of Palatine]

Originally Posted by Marengo

A dutch minister and later NATO Secretary General Joseph Luns was more nasty, he said she was a pretty woman but had horrible legs, which she usually hid well

Well, when the industrial revolution allowed the British to produce the first silk stockings, the British gave some pairs of them to the then Spanish queen. Only to receive them back with a note saying that "The Queen of Spain has no legs". I have decided for myself to treat the legs or other prominent parts of Royal bodies accordingly - much more polite this way. But of course, if someone like a certain British princess flaunts her obviously rather prominent parts in public, I cannot leave that uncommented. Hm...

[auntie]

One thing I can say, King Leopold never looked at Princess Lilian (at least in pictures)the same tender and in love way he looked at Queen Astrid Does anyone else share this observation?

[brandon]

I read in a recent feature in Royalty magazine that King Baudouin never got on with her, and this only got worse after his marriage with Queen Fabiola, who apparently liked her even less. What were the known reasons if any for these family dispute? Possessions, residences? It seems as though Liliane got the boot out of the palace she was living in when Queen Fabiola arrived on the scene, for one thing. But maybe much about the background, lifestyle and attitudes of Liliane and Fabiola are so very different that it became probable they would not only have nothing in common but much to dislike about one another. Any comments or insights are appreciated.

[Regina]

I find this article (Time) a very interesting one about her - The Provocative Princess

About her relationship with Baudouin, the article says: "
As sickly in mien as he is diffident in manner, Baudouin as a child never had much fun until the Princess de Réthy became his maman. She was young* and frolicsome, with what one admirer called "the complexion of a rose and the shape of Venus." Baudouin adored his vivacious stepmother and, according to the gossips, is still strongly influenced by her. She got blamed for Baudouin's rude refusal to attend the funeral of Britain's George VI."

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by auntie

One thing I can say, King Leopold never looked at Princess Lilian (at least in pictures)the same tender and in love way he looked at Queen Astrid Does anyone else share this observation?

Yes, I have compared several pictures of the two couples and I share your observation. He cheated on both wives, but seemed to genuinely love and adore Astrid (as did most everyone)

I think Leopold and Lilian had a very strong sexual attraction to one another, at least in the beginnning.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by brandon

I read in a recent feature in Royalty magazine that King Baudouin never got on with her, and this only got worse after his marriage with Queen Fabiola, who apparently liked her even less. What were the known reasons if any for these family dispute? Possessions, residences? It seems as though Liliane got the boot out of the palace she was living in when Queen Fabiola arrived on the scene, for one thing. But maybe much about the background, lifestyle and attitudes of Liliane and Fabiola are so very different that it became probable they would not only have nothing in common but much to dislike about one another. Any comments or insights are appreciated.

Baudouin and Lilian got on like a house on fire until Baudouin got married. They got along SO well and were so close in fact that there were unseemly rumours about their relationship in the Fifties. Apparently they shared a sleeping compartment in a train while on holiday in the mid-50's and there is a story about their telephone conversations being secretly recorded, with "I am yours, I will never leave you" and other intimacies being exchanged.

I have no problem believing poor lonely Baudouin had a crush on his glamorous stepmother, who stepped into the void in his life that the death of his mother created. But I do not believe for a minute that they were ever lovers because of everything we know about the late King's character and personality, and his almost obstinate loyalty to his father Leopold at that time.

As for Fabiola, she and Lilian could never have been close friends. Lilian was glamorous and worldly, Fabiola was a devout Catholic with a penchant for mysticism as was King Baudouin. When Fabiola met Baudouin she fell deeply in love with him and was determined to be everything to him-wife, mother confessor, friend, advisor-with NO interference from Lilian.

[jcbcode99]

I cannot imagine that he married Lilian without loving her, knowing the uproar it would cause. I think that the Princess de Rethy was a stunning and elegant woman--in fact, Jackie Kennedy, when consulting with fashion designers, said she wanted to be dressed like the Princess deRethy--but younger. I've always thought that Lilian got a "raw deal" because of the public's love of Astrid; they treated her unfairly. She should have received the title of Queen instead of the alternate title she was given.

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by jcbcode99

I cannot imagine that he married Lilian without loving her, knowing the uproar it would cause. I think that the Princess de Rethy was a stunning and elegant woman--in fact, Jackie Kennedy, when consulting with fashion designers, said she wanted to be dressed like the Princess deRethy--but younger. I've always thought that Lilian got a "raw deal" because of the public's love of Astrid; they treated her unfairly. She should have received the title of Queen instead of the alternate title she was given.

There is probably some truth in the idea that Liliane was unfairly treated and compared to Astrid. But I blame Leopold and Liliane herself...if they had handled their relationship in a more...shall we say discreet manner Liliane might have gotten the respect and approval that was her due.

She was pregnant when she secretly married Leopold and had been having a wartime affair with him. Was it too much to ask of them to hold off until AFTER the war and the grievous crisis the country was undergoing to be over? For pete's sake Belgium was under German occupation, the people were suffering. For them to then find out that their King was cavorting with and impregnating his children's nanny cannot have gone over well at all.

This was the 1940's, and Belgium at that time was an extremely conservative Catholic country.

[brandon]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaDreamin

There is probably some truth in the idea that Liliane was unfairly treated and compared to Astrid. But I blame Leopold and Liliane herself...if they had handled their relationship in a more...shall we say discreet manner Liliane might have gotten the respect and approval that was her due.

She was pregnant when she secretly married Leopold and had been having a wartime affair with him. Was it too much to ask of them to hold off until AFTER the war and the grievous crisis the country was undergoing to be over? For pete's sake Belgium was under German occupation, the people were suffering. For them to then find out that their King was cavorting with and impregnating his children's nanny cannot have gone over well at all.

This was the 1940's, and Belgium at that time was an extremely conservative Catholic country.

How far into the war did this all happen and could they have known at the time when or if the war might end anytime soon? Aside from which, I don't think human life and passion just comes to a full hiatus or stop because a war happens to be on. Supposedly we're in a "war" right now, yet here we all are, posting away, trying to relax and talk about our interests. Love and passion happen likewise. In any case, Leopold was likely to have abdicated anyway due to his decisions and actions at the onset of the war. Liliane was not a decisive factor in how things turned out for him, was she? People compare Leopold-Liliane to the Windsors or Charles-Camilla but except for some superficial facts I think each story is completely different.

[Marengo]

Ah, now that you nmention that brandon, I think this article at The Royal Articles might be helpful to awnser that question more elaborately. Queen Elisabeth was behind it too, worried that her son was too lonely at the palace (Leopold was suffering from depressions I believe, due to his isolated position and turn of fortunes). Lilian was used as a scapegoat and though she did not influence Leopold's behavior in the war she was important to the public opinion. The image of the lonely widower had been replaced by that of a king who enjoyed himself with a Flemish (!) woman while the country was suffering.

Now abot Lilian; I think history gave her a rough deal indeed. She wasn't the bitter woman at the beginning of her marriage, but slowly changed to such after she was unable to deal with several disappointments (the abdication, her children not being dynasts, the enormous amount of bad press she received and her husband enjoying pleasures elsewhere too - for a start). In the beginning she was a breath of fresh air indeed, also for Leopolds children who adored hr (they insisted on calling her 'maman'). Esp. Boudewijn was fond of her, so the artilcle in the royalty magazine is wrong here.

I usually think that too much attention is given to Lilian vs. Fabiola - thing. Though the two women might not have gotten along very well the main reason for the icy atmosphere between Argenteuil and Laeken was that Leopold kept lecturing his son on politics, while the son's confidence grew and he slowly didn't accept being his fathers puppet anymore. Of course this story doesn't sell as many boulevard magazines, a catfight between a Queen and a princess does.

[brandon]

Marengo, thanks for your interesting link.

I also was interested in the history behind the three children of LIII and Liliane de Rethy being non-dynasts. Was this because they married without approval of the government? In fact, he was a widower so there was nothing in the religious dimension that was preventing the marriage, was there?

[Moonmaiden23]

Originally Posted by Marengo

Ah, now that you nmention that brandon, I think this article at The Royal Articles might be helpful to awnser that question more elaborately. Queen Elisabeth was behind it too, worried that her son was too lonely at the palace (Leopold was suffering from depressions I believe, due to his isolated position and turn of fortunes). Lilian was used as a scapegoat and though she did not influence Leopold's behavior in the war she was important to the public opinion. The image of the lonely widower had been replaced by that of a king who enjoyed himself with a Flemish (!) woman while the country was suffering.

Now abot Lilian; I think history gave her a rough deal indeed. She wasn't the bitter woman at the beginning of her marriage, but slowly changed to such after she was unable to deal with several disappointments (the abdication, her children not being dynasts, the enormous amount of bad press she received and her husband enjoying pleasures elsewhere too - for a start). In the beginning she was a breath of fresh air indeed, also for Leopolds children who adored hr (they insisted on calling her 'maman'). Esp. Boudewijn was fond of her, so the artilcle in the royalty magazine is wrong here.

I usually think that too much attention is given to Lilian vs. Fabiola - thing. Though the two women might not have gotten along very well the main reason for the icy atmosphere between Argenteuil and Laeken was that Leopold kept lecturing his son on politics, while the son's confidence grew and he slowly didn't accept being his fathers puppet anymore. Of course this story doesn't sell as many boulevard magazines, a catfight between a Queen and a princess does.

I agree with you that Fabiola and Liliane might have eventually come to some sort of peaceful co-existence....even though they got off to a very rough start. When Baudouin and Fabiola returned from their honeymoon and found all the furniture gone from Laeken Palace and moved to Argenteuil House, well let's be realistic. It was going to be an uphill battle from there.

Didn't I read from the HUMO articles you reproduced a few weeks ago that Leopold kept calling Laeken after the wedding, talking down to his son and lecturing him about various things and eventually was told to BUTT OUT by Fabiola? I can't say I blame her!

[maria-olivia]

I am sad seeing Princess Mathilde wearing always the same tiara .. It is the only she have.. and it is a new one not one belonging to the tiaras from the past.. Could you imagine Queen Paola or Crown Princess Mathilde wearing Queen's Elisabeth wonderful Cartier tiara ..Queen Elisabeth was Baudouin and Albert Grandmother.
Princess Lilian sold this tiara to Cartier again after Leopold III dead !!
How was that possible ???

[auntie]

Not only that, but some of the jewels she sold were worn by Queen Astrid!!!, even if they were not technically Astrid's, ie:being a gift from the king as long as they were married, they should by all right gone to her children. Lilian wore the 9 province tiara, whichis the only one worn by the Queen only. If Lilian had her way, her children would be sitting on the throne now and not QAstrid's.

[maria-olivia]

You are right Auntie , she even sold jewels worn by our beloved Queen Astrid.
They should by right gone to Josephine-Charlotte, Baudouin and Albert her childeren.
I never saw pictures of her woring the whole 9 province tiara .She wore a part of this tiara during the State Banket for the Visit of President René Coty of France at the Exhibition 1958 .. she was then our first lady ! and she wore the 9 diamands as necklace..

[Jose]

Princess Liliane was King Leopolds funeral? 1983? Photos on King Leopolds funeral.?