Princess Lilian of Belgium (2nd wife of King Leopold III)

[Marengo]

Yes she was. And there are pictures of king Leopold III's funeral in this thread.

 

[Paty]

There are pictures of Princess Liliane Funneral?

 

[Marengo]

A few from ANP:

ANP Beeldbank

ANP Beeldbank

ANP Beeldbank

ANP Beeldbank

ANP Beeldbank

 

[maria-olivia]

Marie-Christine was not at her mother's funeral !

 

[grandlordbenji16]

what kind of a funeral was that ? As a consort to a king she deserve a mini-state funeral since she was not a queen she cant have a grand state one but this is like a private funeral and the pallbeares should carry her coffins on their shoulders not by the waste because even though she was born a commoner but she was a princess of belgium of her own right by her husband alson a noblewomen of the highest class princess de rethy

 

[maria-olivia]

We had an interesting film about HRH Princess Lilian Friday for "c’est du Belge*».
Prince Michel de Grèce said she was the most wonderful Princess he never met.
What I learned :
She never met the royal Children before she got married , so she was not their nurse.
She met Leopold III in Ostend , she was helping serving tea. She met also HM Queen Elisabeth and as the King was depressed , his mother thought it should be a good idea they met each other as Lilian was such a positive person.
The unexpected happened : lilian was pregnant . Their religious wedding (she said wrong planning !) was celebrated by Cardinal Van Roey with only Queen Elisabeth and her father Mr Henrik Baels.
Next day she met her mother , she saw the ring and said you are married with who ; Lilian said with leopold , who ? the King, and her mother was so angry about that.

What I learned also that she got a message from Sir Moncada asking to see her. She thought he wanted to dismissed from her scientific Committee but it was to tell her he wanted to marry Esmeralda ! and Alexander said I am married with lea since years.. boum boum..

She had to wait until she was 82 years to be grandmother from Alexandra Moncada.

She really wanted her children having royal weddings...

 

[Ally Priest]

We had an interesting film about HRH Princess Lilian Friday for "c’est du Belge*».
Prince Michel de Grèce said she was the most wonderful Princess he never met.
What I learned :
She never met the royal Children before she got married , so she was not their nurse.
She met Leopold III in Ostend , she was helping serving tea. She met also HM Queen Elisabeth and as the King was depressed , his mother thought it should be a good idea they met each other as Lilian was such a positive person.
The unexpected happened : lilian was pregnant . Their religious wedding (she said wrong planning !) was celebrated by Cardinal Van Roey with only Queen Elisabeth and her father Mr Henrik Baels.
Next day she met her mother , she saw the ring and said you are married with who ; Lilian said with leopold , who ? the King, and her mother was so angry about that.

What I learned also that she got a message from Sir Moncada asking to see her. She thought he wanted to dismissed from her scientific Committee but it was to tell her he wanted to marry Esmeralda ! and Alexander said I am married with lea since years.. boum boum..

She had to wait until she was 82 years to be grandmother from Alexandra Moncada.

She really wanted her children having royal weddings...

Does anyone have a link to watch this? I would love to learn more about the princess!

 

[Nico]

You can still see this very interesting film with this link :

Regardez en vidéo C'est du Belge - Vendredi 14 Septembre - 20:20 - La Une

 

[Bine221]

I am sad seeing Princess Mathilde wearing always the same tiara .. It is the only she have.. and it is a new one not one belonging to the tiaras from the past.. Could you imagine Queen Paola or Crown Princess Mathilde wearing Queen's Elisabeth wonderful Cartier tiara ..Queen Elisabeth was Baudouin and Albert Grandmother.
Princess Lilian sold this tiara to Cartier again after Leopold III dead !!
How was that possible ???

This is something, I cannot understand either.
Selling important Family Jewels, such as the Belgian Cartier Tiara, which did not "belong" to her, is unforgivable. Some of them has been gifted to Leopolds Mother, some others to Leopolds first wife Astrid. Surely Leopold has given them to his second wife to wear it, but those jewels were not in her POSSESSION.
It is even said, that she sold the Cartier tiara after Leopolds death without saying any single word to Boudouin - so with no possibility to give HIM a chance to "buy the tiara back" into the main line of the Royal Family.
Bye Bine

 

[An Ard Ri]

Princess De Rethy Celebrates 43rd Birthday (1959)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-UMHkT8jOw

 

[Nico]

This is something, I cannot understand either.
Selling important Family Jewels, such as the Belgian Cartier Tiara, which did not "belong" to her, is unforgivable. Some of them has been gifted to Leopolds Mother, some others to Leopolds first wife Astrid. Surely Leopold has given them to his second wife to wear it, but those jewels were not in her POSSESSION.
It is even said, that she sold the Cartier tiara after Leopolds death without saying any single word to Boudouin - so with no possibility to give HIM a chance to "buy the tiara back" into the main line of the Royal Family.
Bye Bine

Well technically the Cartier tiara belonged to her ...

 

[maria-olivia]

Exact , but sad Queen Elisabeth did not give the tiara to King Baudouin. It would remain in the family

I never understood how Queen Elisabeth loved her so much, She could have said , you are pregnant but wait to marry the King after the War and they should be certainly no Abdication.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Jacqueline Kennedy paid Liliane the highest compliment in 1960 when she directed her White House couturier Oleg Cassini to design her a wardrobe like the Princess de Rethy's..."only younger".

 

[episcogal]

I also read that Jacqueline Kennedy loved Fabiola's wedding dress and asked cassini to make her presidential inauguration dress similar to the Balenciaga design. Don't kill me but I'm not much of a Jacqueline Kennedy fan - her so called great fashion sense was completely derivative.

Anyway...

I am NOT a fan of Lilian at all. For all her sophistication and panache, she did not have tact or grace, in my opinion. She was brash and rubbed people the wrong way. She should have had the good grace to leave Laeken without being hoisted out at the last moment. I did not know about the wandering eye of Leopold during both his marriages. That is really a pity. I thought he was a man of more honour.

It was a crying shame that she also had such little tact as to sell the Cartier tiara. I really like that piece.

I have a real problem with all the pieces written by Time Magazine on Baudouin - they just didn't get him or have a realistic story of his life. I think he was certainly dazzled by Lilian, though.

All this being said, Astrid was a very hard act to follow.

 

[maria-olivia]

First book about Princess Lilian : Lilan et le Roi, la bibliographie , Olivier Defrance, Editions Racine 336 pages 29,90 euros.

He succeeded with the help of Princesses Esmeralda and Lea with new informations about what she really was , about she was thinking about her statute of non Queen, about her relationships with Queen Elisabeth and with Queens Fabiola and Paola.
Their family problems started before the furniture affaire ..

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Wasn't she Princess Lilian, not Princess Liliane?

 

[Marengo]

Correct. The title of the thread has been changed.

 

[maria-olivia]

Mr. Baels , Governor of Occidental Flanders's family prefer English to Dutch.
So it was Lilian who never spoke Dutch during her whole life.

 

[maria-olivia]

Marengo
Did you find in the Dutch newspaper articles about Olivier Defrance's new book.
It is too expensive to me and will buy it second hands.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Mr. Baels , Governor of Occidental Flanders's family prefer English to Dutch.
So it was Lilian who never spoke Dutch during her whole life.

I wonder if this is not just fantasy to paint a negative light on the Baels family. Hendrik Baels, born in Dutch-speaking Belgium and died in Dutch-speaking Belgium was married with Anne Devisscher, born in Dutch-speaking Belgium and died in Dutch-speaking Belgium. Hendrik Baels was an Alderman and a deputy Mayor of Oostende, a Dutch-speaking city. He was a member of Parliament for the district Oostende, he was minister for several departments and finally became a Governor of the Dutch-speaking province of West Flanders. And in all these years this very Flemish family only spoke English at home??? Lilian never spoke Dutch???



It is too unlikely to be true. According this article in Het Nieuwsblad, it was other than Hendrik Baels himself, as Alderman, who managed that the schools in Oostende (Lilian went to the Institut des Soeurs de Saint-Joseph) would become bilingual in French and Dutch. Lilian learned Dutch and managed to speak the local dialect. So this is completely the opposite what Oliver Defrance wrote in his book....

 

[Hannelore]

It is certainly not a fantasy.

The early 20th century reality of Flanders was very different from what you depict. The upper classes all spoke French, also the rich bourgeoisie who aspired to get higher on in life. Flemish was still very much the language of farmers and uneducated families. I specificly say Flemish and not Dutch because the linguistic reality was one of multiple dialects. A unified standard Dutch only became more common after the first world war, and only bit by bit.

It would last untill the 1960s for university city Leuven to be unilingual Dutch... The linguistic situation in Flanders has long time been a difficult one and had nothing to do with Holland.

So it is indeed hard to imagine a governor's daughter growing up speaking Flemish. Her environment would have been French (or in this case) English speaking. As a child Lilian attended public school in Britain. It's clear what her parents wanted for her.

 

[maria-olivia]

Nice answer Hanelore to Duc et Pair who is a young dutchman.
I was born in Bruges , we spoke french at home and dutch at School and in the kitchen. My mother went to a School and asked the Nun for a well educated Catholic young girl of 14 to be our servant. My Mother is still living she is 94...

This was the past.. Since more than 45 years the money is in Flanders.

Hanelore could you tell me at what time the University of Ghent became Dutch ?

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is certainly not a fantasy.

The early 20th century reality of Flanders was very different from what you depict. The upper classes all spoke French, also the rich bourgeoisie who aspired to get higher on in life. Flemish was still very much the language of farmers and uneducated families. I specificly say Flemish and not Dutch because the linguistic reality was one of multiple dialects. A unified standard Dutch only became more common after the first world war, and only bit by bit.

It would last untill the 1960s for university city Leuven to be unilingual Dutch... The linguistic situation in Flanders has long time been a difficult one and had nothing to do with Holland.

So it is indeed hard to imagine a governor's daughter growing up speaking Flemish. Her environment would have been French (or in this case) English speaking. As a child Lilian attended public school in Britain. It's clear what her parents wanted for her.

So the article in Het Nieuwsblad which stated that Schepen (Alderman) Hendrik Baels himself made sure that the schools in Oostende should become bilingual, that his daughter Lilian Baels got the first courses flamand from the Soeurs de St-Joseph and continued in the Dutch-speaking department and even managed to speak Oostends Dialect is nonsense then?

Lilian's bomma Devisscher sold fish on the market in Oostende, Lilian's father was Flemish, Lilian's mother was Flemish, Lilian had Flemish classmates, started with courses flamand and continued in Dutch-speaking classes and still she could no speak Dutch...?

Sure... Pfff... When it is about Lilian Baels everything seems allowed to paint her as the devil in own person. By the way, in the book by Evrard Raskin (former member of Parliament) about Princess Lilian is also stated that she could speak Dutch. There were letters (in Dutch) with Flemish politicians as Achiel Van Acker and Gaston Eyskens. So the claim that Lilian never spoke Dutch is most unreliable.

 

[Lee-Z]

Mr. Baels , Governor of Occidental Flanders's family prefer English to Dutch.
So it was Lilian who never spoke Dutch during her whole life.

According to this article about an earlier book she did learn some basics of dutch/flemish at school
'Mooi als een Griekse nacht' - Het Nieuwsblad
In the circles that she mingled in i could imagine that french and english were used much more though

 

[Hannelore]

So the article in Het Nieuwsblad which stated that Schepen (Alderman) Hendrik Baels himself made sure that the schools in Oostende should become bilingual, that his daughter Lilian Baels got the first courses flamand from the Soeurs de St-Joseph and continued in the Dutch-speaking department and even managed to speak Oostends Dialect is nonsense then?

Lilian's bomma Devisscher sold fish on the market in Oostende, Lilian's father was Flemish, Lilian's mother was Flemish, Lilian had Flemish classmates, started with courses flamand and continued in Dutch-speaking classes and still she could no speak Dutch...?

Sure... Pfff... When it is about Lilian Baels everything seems allowed to paint her as the devil in own person. By the way, in the book by Evrard Raskin (former member of Parliament) about Princess Lilian is also stated that she could speak Dutch. There were letters (in Dutch) with Flemish politicians as Achiel Van Acker and Gaston Eyskens. So the claim that Lilian never spoke Dutch is most unreliable.

You've completely misunderstood what I tried to explain. I've given you historic facts on a historical linguistic situation, and not passed any judgement on Lilian at all! I don't care which language her family spoke at home, I've tried to explain what the customs of the day were.

You can not understand Belgian linguistic context unless you know it's history, and you clearly don't so don't make assumptions about what is true or false please.

 

[maria-olivia]

Well said !
I forgot to say that the writer Olivier Defrance met Princess Lilian .

 

[Marengo]

And on that note, let's move on...

 

[Tatiana Maria]

According to this article about an earlier book she did learn some basics of dutch/flemish at school
'Mooi als een Griekse nacht' - Het Nieuwsblad
In the circles that she mingled in i could imagine that french and english were used much more though

The second and third parts of Het Nieuwsblad's series of articles about Evrard Raskin's book are here.
'De mannen vloekten, de vrouwen weenden' - Het Nieuwsblad
Een Ferrari speciaal voor haar gebouwd - Het Nieuwsblad

 

[maria-olivia]

This are old stories.
I will try to buy Olvier DeFrance new book in second hand and will come back !

 

[An Ard Ri]

Black and White footage of King Leopold with Princess de Rethy in Havana,Cuba

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPGAJw3lf1g

King Leopold, & the Princess de Rethy in Paris

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZId-xmmNNI