(Belgian) Congo and the Belgian Royal Family


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episcogal

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When I first started learning about Belgian royalty and Baudouin/Boudewijn in particular, I thought Congo was only peripheral to his life, but it's a bit more complicated than that. I am having real difficulty reconciling the man in all his wonderful character with his dealings in Congo both during the Independence process and beyond - basically to his death. :sad:

Anyone knowledgeable want to discuss this topic?
 
He was not better than the Kings before with their greed after Congolese minerals.

Leopold: "The independence of the Congo... is the culmination of the work conceived... by the genius of Leopold II. Undertaken by him with tenacious courage... and continued with perseverance by Belgium."

How can someone have the image of a Saint, while praising someone who started a genocide in Congo for profit?
 
When you say "Leopold: "The independence..." you mean that Baudouin is speaking of Leopold II, correct? Because, he is the one who made that statement. And, that is EXACTLY the statement that I'm having truly trouble assimilating into my knowledge base of Baudouin.

There are no two ways about it - Leopold II was a terrible ghastly initiator and propagator of a system in which terrible crimes and murder by the millions took place. I'm not surprised in the slightest that Lumumba had a problem with that statement.

Could Baudouin really have been *that* sheltered as to not know? Because I absolutely do NOT believe he was overly motivated by natural resources exploitation, because when he saw things were going south, he went from a step down exit to flat out all-at-once independence. If he had been so interested in exploiting the minerals, then I doubt that would have happened in that fashion.

I do think you're not being entirely even with Baudouin.

Baudouin is NOT equal to Leopold II.
 
I think Congolese independence was much more complicated than Baudouin had let it appear. There are valid points to be made that the all-at-once independence movement was made with the expectation that the Congo would fall apart and he'd be allowed to retake it for Belgium, which obviously didn't happen. There's also some speculation that he supported separatists against Lumumba to try to regain the Congo, especially the uranium-rich portions (which would have made Belgium extremely important in the Cold War era).

Was Baudouin equal to Leopold II? Probably not, but he was no saint either.
 
Aside from Cold War politics, part of the bad blood between the BeRF and Lumumba was that before Lumumba was overthrown and assassinated there had been race riots targeting Belgian expats in DR Congo and threats of nationalization of Belgian businesses (Belgian commercial interests in central and francophone africa is still extensive even today) that Baudoiun blamed on Lumumba.

To what extent Baudioun was aware of or involved in Lumumba's death is anyone's guess, but by and large Baudion got along better with Mobutu (at least until the two had a falling out), and I suspect that this understanding between the two may indicate a more ruthless and cunning side to the king's character. Even the pious and good can have their dark sides, and Baudioun's prior knowledge and/or involvement can't be ruled out. I'd quite happily put money him knowing and looking the other way actually.

I know that both Fabiola and Paola both recieved gifts of diamond jewelry from Marie-Antoinette Mobutu that are now property of the Belgian state that have not been worn due to political reasons. Much of the BeRF's Crown Jewels are made from Congolese diamonds (as are a couple of pieces in the Luxembourg Collection via Josephine Charlotte) and a substantial amount of their personal wealth has its origins in Leopold II's "business ventures" , on top of their generous civil list and Leopold I's British state pension. With that in mind, i'd really like to know what the BeRF makes of the late troubles in DR Congo, which despite being grossly undereported in the west and more so in the English language media, have constituted the world's bloodiest civil war in recent history with approx 5 million dead?

If some Vlaams Blok muckraker really wanted to embarrass the RF, they don't to talk about sex scandals or allegations of nazi collaboration. They just need to read King Leopold's Ghost by Adam Hochschild. It's really all they need to know.
 
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We just had on TV the story of President Mobutu's life in 4 parts.
The Independance in 1960 was given to early and Congo was not ready!
Mobutu who was a simple Sergent became Colonel, due to Lumumba.
After he wanted to be the highest in Congo and is involved in Prime Minister Lumumba 's Assasination. President Kasabuvu had to go go back to his lands.
Mobuta was the head of Zaire/Congo , head and after Dictator , Marechal wearing huge uniforms Decorations etc
At the End when he had all , he feeled depressed , had prostate cancer, thought he would live but died after have ruined his country.
There was at the beginning a relationship as friends , the President came to Belgium and our Royals went to Zaire. But after he became Dictator with its damages , the contacts were broken for ever.
King Albert II and Queen Paola went to Congo and Mrs Kabila gave jewels to our Queen who went to a Vault.
Princess Josephine Charlotte received wedding jewels from Congo because she was Princess of Belgium and Congo was ours.

Congo is a shame now , all what the belgian and after did are broken !

Please do not involve our late King in the Lumumba Affair without serious proves.
The Leopold II affair will never embarras nowadays our Royal family.

King Philippe , Queen Mathilde and their 4 Children are doing their very best and we like them.
 
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I know that both Fabiola and Paola both received gifts of diamond jewelry from Marie-Antoinette Mobutu that are now property of the Belgian state that have not been worn due to political reasons.

That is actually an interesting piece of information. Do you think those diamond jewelry gifts will be ever worn by a Belgian royal lady ? What kind of items are you talking about exactly ?
 
Aside from Cold War politics, part of the bad blood between the BeRF and Lumumba was that before Lumumba was overthrown and assassinated there had been race riots targeting Belgian expats in DR Congo and threats of nationalization of Belgian businesses (Belgian commercial interests in central and francophone africa is still extensive even today) that Baudoiun blamed on Lumumba.

To what extent Baudioun was aware of or involved in Lumumba's death is anyone's guess, but by and large Baudion got along better with Mobutu (at least until the two had a falling out), and I suspect that this understanding between the two may indicate a more ruthless and cunning side to the king's character. Even the pious and good can have their dark sides, and Baudioun's prior knowledge and/or involvement can't be ruled out. I'd quite happily put money him knowing and looking the other way actually.

I know that both Fabiola and Paola both recieved gifts of diamond jewelry from Marie-Antoinette Mobutu that are now property of the Belgian state that have not been worn due to political reasons. Much of the BeRF's Crown Jewels are made from Congolese diamonds (as are a couple of pieces in the Luxembourg Collection via Josephine Charlotte) and a substantial amount of their personal wealth has its origins in Leopold II's "business ventures" , on top of their generous civil list and Leopold I's British state pension. With that in mind, i'd really like to know what the BeRF makes of the late troubles in DR Congo, which despite being grossly undereported in the west and more so in the English language media, have constituted the world's bloodiest civil war in recent history with approx 5 million dead?

If some Vlaams Blok muckraker really wanted to embarrass the RF, they don't to talk about sex scandals or allegations of nazi collaboration. They just need to read King Leopold's Ghost by Adam Hochschild. It's really all they need to know.

I have that book. It's gruesome, chilling to read about Leopold II and his influence and legacy in the Congo.

How can he he have gotten away with it all?
 
That is actually an interesting piece of information. Do you think those diamond jewelry gifts will be ever worn by a Belgian royal lady ? What kind of items are you talking about exactly ?

Queen Paola received an expensive diamond necklace, bracelet and earrings from President Kabila when she attended the 50th independence celebrations of Congo in 2010.

The items were never worn and handed over to the Donation Royale/Koninklijke Schenking a few days later.

Queen Fabiola donated her Wolfers tiara to the foundation, which is worn by Queen Mathilde.
 
I have that book. It's gruesome, chilling to read about Leopold II and his influence and legacy in the Congo.

How can he he have gotten away with it all?

The world in the late 19th and early 20th centuries was very different from the world today. Colonialism and imperialism were not only accepted in most European countries, but also actually seen as a positive force for progress and change. Having said that, Leopold II didn't completely "get away with it" as he evetually had to surrender control of the former Congo "Free State" to the Belgian state.
 
Prince Albert before being King Albert the First , when to Congo in 1909 .
He wrote in his book what they told him about the broken arms etc.
He noted 3 important points.
1) No roads He visited the country walking or with a bike !.
2)The European do not know anything about people of Africa,
3)No hygiene at all.
He was very angry when he came back because Leopold II wanted a brillant description of his Congo and the Prince could not give them .
King , he did an official Visit to Congo with Queen Elisabeth for the Inauguration of the Train at Leopoldville.
 
Sad the Congo jewels may not be worn since 1960 . The Royal Family of GB received glittering jewels ea from Arabie Saudite and may wear them during generations.
 
Sad the Congo jewels may not be worn since 1960 . The Royal Family of GB received glittering jewels ea from Arabie Saudite and may wear them during generations.
Unlike the British royals the Belgian royal family have more scruples. The Belgian atrocities in Congo are comparable to the atrocities of UK in India (the Bengali famine), Kenya (the Mau Mau uprising) and Ireland (the well-planned genocide of the Irish).
 
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Imo Belgian RF in relation to the history of Congo is a completely different situation to the british RF in relation to Saudi Arabia
 
Imo Belgian RF in relation to the history of Congo is a completely different situation to the british RF in relation to Saudi Arabia


Agreed, DR Congo was first Leopold II's personal fiefdom, than later was ruled by central dictat from Brussels as the tenth province of the kingdom, and its first independent government sabotaged on behalf of (among others) Belgiums commercial interests in the area.

Saudi Arabia on the other hand was a British client state but still basically independent from its inception.
 
King Leopold II gave his Congo to Belgium in 1905. It was ruled by the Belgian Governor at Leopold ville .Congo was not our 10th Province because 80 x bigger that Belgium.
When Leopold III received the tittle of Duke de Brabant, Charles Count of Flanders Marie José nothing. She asked to be called Princess of Congo but this was refused by his Father King Albert the First.
 
King Leopold II gave his Congo to Belgium in 1905. It was ruled by the Belgian Governor at Leopold ville .Congo was not our 10th Province because 80 x bigger that Belgium.
When Leopold III received the tittle of Duke de Brabant, Charles Count of Flanders Marie José nothing. She asked to be called Princess of Congo but this was refused by his Father King Albert the First.



Many countries have their share of guilty as far as colonialism is concerned (Britain, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, France, etc.). In any case, whatever happened in the Congo after 1908 is the responsibility of the Belgian government, rather than the King personally. So, I don't think we can put Albert I, or Leopold III, or Baudouin in the same category as Leopold II.
 
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The very handsome Princess Caroline (WHAT A WOMEN !)is just on private Visit to Congo now. I don't know what it really means for Congo and its whole politic situation?
 
King Philippe, Current Events, Part 2 (Sept. 2017 - present)

On the 60th anniversary of Congo’s independance King Philippe expresses his deepest regrets of the Belgian wrongdoing in Congo’s history in a letter to the Congolese president.
It is the first time a Belgian King adresses the acts during Belgium’s colonial past.
Koning Filip betuigt "diepste spij...VRT NWS: nieuws https://vrtnws.be/p.3kOxjy1wJ
https://www.rtbf.be/info/belgique/...grets-pour-les-blessures-du-passe?id=10532781
 
On the 60th anniversary of Congo’s independance King Philippe expresses his deepest regrets of the Belgian wrongdoing in Congo’s history in a letter to the Congolese president.
It is the first time a Belgian King adresses the acts during Belgium’s colonial past.
Koning Filip betuigt "diepste spij...VRT NWS: nieuws https://vrtnws.be/p.3kOxjy1wJ
https://www.rtbf.be/info/belgique/...grets-pour-les-blessures-du-passe?id=10532781

I presume those who accused the Belgian Royal family of cowardise if not bordeline racism for not adressing its colonial past can stick that in their pipe and smoke it.
 
I presume those who accused the Belgian Royal family of cowardise if not bordeline racism for not adressing its colonial past can stick that in their pipe and smoke it.


Historic circumstances prompted a few western European nations, chiefly Portugal, Spain, England (later the UK), France, the Netherlands and then late comers like Belgium to be at different times in control of vast territories in the Americas, Africa, Asia and what used to be called Oceania. That is a historic fact which has changed the world as we know it now and, for better or worse, we have to deal with it.

European colonialism will always be controversial. Personally to me, as someone who was born and raised in the Americas, what happened in the so-called "settler colonies" (what is now the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and, somewhat differently, the major countries in Latin America) was even graver because we are talking here of even mass (direct or indirect) extermination of the native population and entire civilizations (their culture, languages, religion, institutions, etc.) that literally disappeared to be replaced by "new societies" whose mainstream is basically a western European offspring. On top of that, and as a separate (different) issue, the Americas and the Caribbean in particular were also the driving engines of the transatlantic slave trade


Curiously though, the "late" European colonialism in Asia and Africa, of which the Belgian Congo is an example, seems to attract far more attention.
 
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https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-53232105


https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/30/europe/belgium-drc-leopold-ii-regrets-scli-intl/index.html

Since when is King Philippe of The Belgians a descendant of King Leopold II? Am I forgetting something?


He is not, but they are both descendants of King Leopold I.



Sometimes, people use the word "ancestor" to mean a family connection that is broader than direct descent. Even Queen Elizabeth II is apparently guilty of that: at the state dinner in honor of King Willem-Alexander, when mentioning the Revolution of 1688, she referred to King William III of England and Scotland when addressing King Willem-Alexander, as "your ancestor, William III, Prince of Orange" even though Willem-Alexander does not descend from William III who, as everybody knows, did not have any children.



King Philippe may not be a direct descendant of Léopold II, but the Belgian RF is deeply connected to Léopold II's legacy, who in a way was, for the Belgian monarchy, what Queen Victoria now represents for her British successors. Most of the Belgian royal residences were either acquired or extensively upgraded/ renovated by Léopold II and, other than the highest ranked order of Léopold (which was created by Léopold I), all other royal orders of Belgium were established by Léopold II, including the extant orders of the Crown and of Léopold II and the now dormant orders of the African Star and of the Lion .



In fact, beyond the RF, Léopold II was a central figure in recent Belgian history as, like his father, he was a key figure in creating a Belgian national identity (in a somewhat artificial country) and securing little Belgium's place as a substantive industrial and colonial European state. That doesn't erase the seriousness of his actions in the Congo, but we cannot simply wish him away from Belgian history (as I said before, for better or for worse).
 
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He is not, but they are both descendants of King Leopold I.



Sometimes, people use the word "ancestor" to mean a family connection that is broader than direct descent. Even Queen Elizabeth II is apparently guilty of that: at the state dinner in honor of King Willem-Alexander, when mentioning the Revolution of 1688, she referred to King William III of England and Scotland when addressing King Willem-Alexander, as "your ancestor, William III, Prince of Orange" even though Willem-Alexander does not descend from William III who, as everybody knows, did not have any children.



King Philippe may not be a direct descendant of Léopold II, but the Belgian RF is deeply connected to Léopold II's legacy, who in a way was, for the Belgian monarchy, what Queen Victoria now represents for her British successors. Most of the Belgian royal residences were either acquired or extensively upgraded/ renovated by Léopold II and, other than the highest ranked order of Léopold (which was created by Léopold I), all other royal orders of Belgium were established by Léopold II, including the extant orders of the Crown and of Léopold II and the now dormant orders of the African Star and of the Lion .



In fact, beyond the RF, Léopold II was a central figure in recent Belgian history as, like his father, he was a key figure in creating a Belgian national identity (in a somewhat artificial country) and securing little Belgium's place as a substantive industrial and colonial European state. That doesn't erase the seriousness of his actions in the Congo, but we cannot simply wish him away from Belgian history (as I said before, for better or for worse).



Thank you for your explanation
 
Historic circumstances prompted a few western European nations, chiefly Portugal, Spain, England (later the UK), France, the Netherlands and then late comers like Belgium to be at different times in control of vast territories in the Americas, Africa, Asia and what used to be called Oceania. That is a historic fact which has changed the world as we know it now and, for better or worse, we have to deal with it.

European colonialism will always be controversial. Personally to me, as someone who was born and raised in the Americas, what happened in the so-called "settler colonies" (what is now the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and, somewhat differently, the major countries in Latin America) was even graver because we are talking here of even mass (direct or indirect) extermination of the native population and entire civilizations (their culture, languages, religion, institutions, etc.) that literally disappeared to be replaced by "new societies" whose mainstream is basically a western European offspring. On top of that, and as a separate (different) issue, the Americas and the Caribbean in particular were also the driving engines of the transatlantic slave trade


Curiously though, the "late" European colonialism in Asia and Africa, of which the Belgian Congo is an example, seems to attract far more attention.

And as far i can see it's far more easier to vandalize statues and to insult people than acknowledging this historic move from the KIng of the Belgians.

Less "Twitter compatible " i presume ...
 
I am not quite sure what you mean with that comment? The newspapers in Belgium are filled with articles and headlines about a 'historic' or 'brave' move etc.
 
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"This is the first time a Belgian monarch has formally expressed remorse for what happened during the country's colonial rule. The remarks, however, fell short of an outright apology."

On the one hand, at least this is getting somewhere. On the other, I guess the DRC wasn't colonized in a day and it will take longer to put this to rights.

Is there any other news of the proposed truth and reconciliation commission?
 
In a purely speculative sense (just thinking about Philippe not being directly descended), is there any way to determine whether Leopold would have become quite so monstrous had he not lost his son?

He was not a sympathetic man before Prince Leopold died, but he never got over it and it seems to have licensed him to do whatever he wanted, because nothing would make up for it.

Would he have pursued a legacy, any legacy, so unfeelingly if he still had his nice little boy? In which case we'd all be feeling even sorrier for the Belgian monarchy.
 
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This is a start for progress - Philippe is apparently the only head of state in Europe who has acknowledged their colonial pasts and apologised for them.

I presume those who accused the Belgian Royal family of cowardise if not bordeline racism for not adressing its colonial past can stick that in their pipe and smoke it.

Well, to be fair, a lot of the criticism has come from the Congolese community themselves and they have every right to want some sort of recognition to how brutally they were treated under colonial rule. I'm pretty sure that if your community had gone through an atrocity, you'd want some kind of reparations.
 
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