Beatrix's Sailing Yacht - The Green Dragon, Costs and Other Issues


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It still shoud be paid for by the people who use it. Who buys your car?
 
COUNTESS said:
It still shoud be paid for by the people who use it. Who buys your car?
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Yes, but if you use it for work purposes? Wouldn't you want some kind of payment for having to use it for work rather than just personal use?
 
But when it costs more to repair than to buy a new one, imo it's just a whim. And if it is only going to be used for personal activities the royals should pay for it.
 
Is it only going to be used for personal activities? Or is it used for royal events as well?
But this one has sentimental value to Queen Beatrix, replacing it for money reasons is a bit mean.
 
From the first post:
[FONT=verdana, arial]The boat is mostly used for private trips and only - occasionally - used by the Queen or the Prince of Orange in their official capacity, like when they are viewing 'Sailing Amsterdam' for example.[/FONT]
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I can understand that it has a sentimental value, but there must be an equilibrium between real needs and whims. Imo if it's so costly and the queen wants to maintain the boat she should pay it herself.
 
When businesses supply cars, they can ONLY be used for business and if they are used for personal use, you have to pay them a hefty sum. It is very easy to say this is sentimental or that and they use it here or there, but the realistic conclusion is very wealthy people want very expensive toys to be paid for by those who have a lot less. All of these families can welll aford a yacht, if they really want one.
 
It is always nice when you don't have to pay...I think that while we love reading about the royals, in this day and age, the royals are outdated. People have to pay for their status and the wellbeing of their children (royal children). I think that if they are healthy, then they should work like any of us. My mother in law who is Dutch disagrees. She loves her queen and believes strongly that she deserves all she gets...however, she does not live in Holland anylonger and does not have to pay for any of that. I have mixed feelings about this...I think it is taking advantage of her people in a way.
 
I like Beatrix very much, too. Wonderful lady, but in todays' day and age, everyone who can, takes care of themselves and those who have the most should, certainly, take care of themselves and their luxuries.
 
100,000 isn't a lot to maintain that boat considering how much yachts cost large yachts cost upwards of a million dollars to maintain a year . Since the country give it to her as a gift they should continue to pay for it.
 
COUNTESS said:
I like Beatrix very much, too. Wonderful lady, but in todays' day and age, everyone who can, takes care of themselves and those who have the most should, certainly, take care of themselves and their luxuries.
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That's not the point.She was given the ship on her 18th by the Dutch people,WITH the maintainance included for the rest of her life.That was the gift.Left wing non entities and what not should hush and care about what really matters in this country in the first place,but having said that,the extreme cost of this dinky toy of a ship are not and were not due to HM.

The Ministry of Defence takes care of maintainance and decided apparently to hire all sorts of folks for all sorts of prices and all took the opportunity to fill their pockets big time.The ship looked spic and span last time I saw it,three weeks ago in Muiden,yes,but I question the folks at the ministry who are in charge for the money sqandering.Not blaming HM for anything in this matter.At all.
And she,sick as she is of these brussels sprouts here decided wholeheartedly to take up the costs herself.And for a lot less I'm sure
 
Then she, as I know, is smarter than many and has taken responsibility. Times change, resources change. It is still a cost to people who have less ability to keep giving the gift. It won't make a dent in her purse. Why are left-winger non entities. Are those on the right so perfect?
 
COUNTESS said:
Then she, as I know, is smarter than many and has taken responsibility. Times change, resources change. It is still a cost to people who have less ability to keep giving the gift. It won't make a dent in her purse. Why are left-winger non entities. Are those on the right so perfect?
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No,but they just don't nag that much,especially not towards those with an extra buck...:flowers:

And,the people didn't give a hood either,it didn't make a dent in theirs either,taking in view
what a government messes around with moneywise and looses sight off in any given country.
This was absolute peanuts,but spilled peanuts as friends of friends of friends of people at the
ministry got contracts and mouth to mouth dealings.The ship isn't worth the amount spend on it,
that is another thing and true too.
 
Lucien, I see your point. But the last sentence, really, says it all. It isn't worth it, so if you want it, pay for it yourself. Beatrix is a wonderful and gracious lady, I think she knows this.
 
The royal family still uses the yacht?
 
Blog Real said:
The royal family still uses the yacht?
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Yes, it was a gift for the 18th birthday of Princess Beatrix. Part of the gift was that the maintenance and the operation would be done by the Royal Netherlands Navy.

The traditional ship is just a small yacht but build to the highest standards and that makes the maintenance so expensive. Look at the carved dragon on the steer behind the Princess (picture).
 
Lee-Z said:
Yes; in 2015 there were again questions asked in government about the cost of maintenance (now close to 100000 eur), but it is still on the budget for 2016.

De Groene Draeck blijft veel geld kosten | NOS

translation
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Of course it will remain on the budget, or the State should say: "Eh... Your Royal Highness, we gave it to you, we promised to operate it, to maintain it, but... eh, Ma'am, now you have to pay for our gift..."

:ermm:

But the costs are beyond belief indeed. 100.000 Euro for maintenance! This while a couple of years ago there was already such an amount for improvements. Beyond belief. Several companies have stated in media that they can do it cheaper. So maybe -as so often- the State is poor in getting best value for the money? But of course De Groene Draeck is no polyester yacht, it will always cost a fortune to keep that little boat afloat. Picture.
 
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I must say, I do find it surprising that De Groene Draeck costs so much to maintain. Living near an estuary, I see many people with similar sized boats and wonder surely they haven't got £100,000 spare every year to keep it going.

But, I suppose it depends on how it is kept and maintained - cleaning the woodwork and touching up the paintwork, taking the sails down to wash etc, all this every week maybe instead of a couple of times a year. It will all add up to that amount I suppose.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
Of course it will remain on the budget, or the State should say: "Eh... Your Royal Highness, we gave it to you, we promised to operate it, to maintain it, but... eh, Ma'am, now you have to pay for our gift..."

:ermm:
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You and I posted at the same time, i didn't see that yours was posted first. My response was to Blog Real who asked whether it was still used; this is a valid question, it was quite well possible that the yacht had been retired by now, and if that had happened then it wouldn't have been on the budget anymore

So i don't see why the snide remark and smiley were necessary when i was just trying to answer a valid question
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
Of course it will remain on the budget, or the State should say: "Eh... Your Royal Highness, we gave it to you, we promised to operate it, to maintain it, but... eh, Ma'am, now you have to pay for our gift..."

:ermm:

But the costs are beyond belief indeed. 100.000 Euro for maintenance! This while a couple of years ago there was already such an amount for improvements. Beyond belief. Several companies have stated in media that they can do it cheaper. So maybe -as so often- the State is poor in getting best value for the money? But of course De Groene Draeck is no polyester yacht, it will always cost a fortune to keep that little boat afloat. Picture.
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:lol: You said it! They must be sweeping the deck with toothbrushes twice a day to justify that cost.
Or is the boat now in such a bad state?
 
Muhler said:
:lol: You said it! They must be sweeping the deck with toothbrushes twice a day to justify that cost.
Or is the boat now in such a bad state?
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The boat has been given in new-state in 1956 and has every year been maintained by the Rijkswerf (the immense State Wharf) in Den Helder, which maintains the fleet of the Royal Netherlands Navy. I can not imagine it is in a bad state.
 
Imo the best solution would be that P.Beatrix herself would say "i will pay for the maintenance from now on", that would save the government a lot of discussion. Don't think it will happen, but it is what i would do in her situation.
 
It is mainly a symbolic discussion, to be honest. In the immense fleet of transportation for all the ministerial departments, all the state and civil services, the military, etc. (for an example: the Corps National Police alone has been delivered no less than 11.000 brand new Volkswagen surveillance cars in 2014 and 2015 !) the maintenance of the little sail yacht is probably one of the microscopic small independent posts on the State Budget.

It would be interesting to know what the budget is for other Statenjachten, for an example the yacht of the Province of Friesland. More or less similar ships as De Groene Draeck.

Princess Beatrix steering: picture

Statenjacht De Friso: picture

Statenjacht De Utrecht: picture
 
To be honest, the Friso, the Friesian Statenjacht is smaller and is more basic than De Groene Draeck which has been build to the highest standard. It is also not clear what the costs exactly include. De Groene Draeck is sailed by the Royal Navy. Does that mean that when military from the Royal Navy sail the ship and make it ready for Princess Beatrix, that these costs are included? All by all it is the traditional annual hiccup, like the costs of the Fokker airplane. Discussion flares up and then it calms down again.
 
The Department of Defense has stressed that the Second Chamber (the Lower House) knew about these costs because in September the Prime Minister has sent a letter to the Chamber, to inform about overspending up to € 223.000,-- Because the additional costs could be covered inside the Defense Budget (the maintenance is done by the Rijkswerf in Den Helder), no extra posts were needed inside the Budget.

The story "maintenance of the De Groene Draeck tonnes more expensive" is true but not new anyway. Everybody could see in the State Budget that in 2014 the standard annual maintenance has been raised from € 60.000,-- to € 95.000,--. This because the standard annual budgeted sum of € 60.000,-- was structurally overspend. So the new budgeted sum of € 95.000,-- should cover that, to get it more in line with reality.

The hullabaloo is about the years 2011-2012-2013 when this overspending apparently was not specifically accounted to the Second Chamber but was compensated elsewhere on the Defense Budget.

The maintenance costs of the De Groene Draeck are beyond belief. I have the idea that the Rijkswerf -without any problem- attributes the most ridiculous posts to the De Groene Draeck. Maybe the State should let the maintenance of the De Groene Draeck be done by a commercial wharf, but that would be painful for the own Rijkswerf, exposing it as an arch-expensive, in-efficient and badly managed state service. The maintenance of the naval fleet is also always and always overspent and the costs are astronomic. It is possible that when the State gives the De Groene Draeck and the naval fleet to wharfs in France, Germany or Poland, that the costs are easily halved...

„Kamer wist van meerkosten Groene Draeck” - Binnenland - RD.nl
 
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While this time it isn't about the cost, there is a new controversy regarding the Groene Draeck. Today the news was published that most likely the recent renovation of the Groene Dreack was done with wood from Myanmar. According to European rules (since 2013) no wood from Myanmar should be used as its origins cannot reliably be established. The supplier of the wood says that the wood is older than 2013 and therefore, their registration does not include the exact origins.

According to the RVD princess Beatrix would "regret it if the contractor or the suppliers did not follow the applicable laws and regulations or if they did not act with due care".

See this article by NOS (in Dutch)
 
De Groene Draeck... Does this mean "The Green Dragon"?

I did see now some pictures - It is a pimped out fishing boat (and sometimes a little cargo ship) for coastal waters! In Germany we call this type: Ewer...

So, as a working boat it should be rather easy to maintain! The only problem is the humidity and the resulting stress for the interior...
 
victor1319 said:
De Groene Draeck... Does this mean "The Green Dragon"?

I did see now some pictures - It is a pimped out fishing boat (and sometimes a little cargo ship) for coastal waters! In Germany we call this type: Ewer...

So, as a working boat it should be rather easy to maintain! The only problem is the humidity and the resulting stress for the interior...
Click to expand...

Yes, it indeed means 'Green Dragon' - it was named after the flagship of the famous Dutch admiral Piet Hein (there is even a song about this admiral), including the following chorus that most Dutch children (not sure if that still is the case though) -and adults- will know:
Piet Hein! Piet Hein! Piet Hein zijn naam is klein
Zijn daden bennen groot, zijn daden bennen groot
Hij heeft gewonnen de zilvervloot
Die heeft gewonnen, gewonnen de Zilvervloot

Translation:
Piet Hein! Piet Hein! Piet Hein his name is small
His deed are* big, his deeds are* big
He has won the Silverfleet
That (man) has won, has won the Silverfleet
*a local conjugation of the verb to be is used

In the current climate, I don't think the ship, that was a present to princess Beatrix for her 18th birthday, would have been named after a flag ship of a famous Dutch admiral. Those admirals from the past nowadays are looked upon rather suspiciously instead of representatives of a great past as would have been the general feeling at that time.

The ship is a 'Lemsteraak' - a specific type of Frisian sailing yacht. And unfortunately, the costs to maintain this 65 year-old royal yacht are very high. Because of security reasons it is maintained by the Dutch marine.
 
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