Abdication Issues & Rumours (2008-2013)

[Carminha Stalker]

I sincerely hope that Queen Beatrix will reign for a few years. But I do agree that it isn´t wise that the heir should wait until he is practically an old man, like Prince Charles, for instance. I know every country follows different rules, but I think the Dutch way is very intelligent.

 

[Marengo]

Thanks for the info.. really interesting facts about the Stadholders btw

I was sure that William I had married the belgian countess. I read about a trip to the Netherlands they made together after his abdication. They were referred to as the count and countess of Nassau (?)

Technicalities such as these aside, in my posts I was trying to show that there is no official tradition for abdication in the Netherlands

thanks for the correction..

I am sorry if I gave the wrong impression, but you are right, the king indeed married the Belgian countess and that was the reason he had to abdicate. But what I meant to say was that if the king would not have been as disappointed with the political state of his country he would most probably not have risked his throne and it is unlikely that he would have married morganatically .

 

[bartholomeus]

No stadholder ever abdicated, and unfortunately many of them died relatively young. Stadholder Willem V however signed a document in December 1801 in which he recognised the French rule over the seven provinces. By doing so he resigned his rights as stadholder, in the hope to get something in return (Fulda and Corvey). The stadholder hestitated for a long time though, and was only convinced after a lot of pressure from his son Willem (the future king Willem I) and his wife Wilhelmina.

The main reason why Willem I abdicated was probably his disappointment about the seperation of the Southern Netherlands and the unwillingness of the Northern elites to help him get that part of his kingdom back. If he would have been able to rule his kingdom succesfully it is very unlikely he would have married the catholic, Belgian countess Henriëtte d'Oultremont.

I'm sorry Marengo I misread your reply..

You obviously acknowledge that a marriage between (ex) king William I and Henriëtte d'Oultremont has taken place.

I'm still wondering how you can support these claimes about king William I's abdication?

 

[bartholomeus]

ok.. interesting theory!

will think about it..

 

[bartholomeus]

No stadholder ever abdicated, and unfortunately many of them died relatively young. Stadholder Willem V however signed a document in December 1801 in which he recognised the French rule over the seven provinces. By doing so he resigned his rights as stadholder, in the hope to get something in return (Fulda and Corvey). The stadholder hestitated for a long time though, and was only convinced after a lot of pressure from his son Willem (the future king Willem I) and his wife Wilhelmina.

The main reason why Willem I abdicated was probably his disappointment about the seperation of the Southern Netherlands and the unwillingness of the Northern elites to help him get that part of his kingdom back. If he would have been able to rule his kingdom succesfully it is very unlikely he would have married the catholic, Belgian countess Henriëtte d'Oultremont.

I read in a book that the 'd'Oultremont' affair was a very serious one. His own son, King William II, refused to recognize and meet his 'stephmother'.

To my oppinion there is no real concrete evidence (if there is I would really like to know it) that King William was so dissapointed, he was a very succesfull banker and had lots of investments in the country.

Besides that, there is the incident were he took the place of the king (which his son was at that time) in the order of precedence of the baptism of the future King William III, his grandson, perhaps he was frustated he couldnt marry the woman he loved and had to abdicate because of her...(remember the Duke of Windsor) ??

 

[lucien]

I read in a book that the 'd'Oultremont' affair was a very serious one. His own son, King William II, refused to recognize and meet his 'stephmother'.

To my oppinion there is no real concrete evidence (if there is I would really like to know it) that King William was so dissapointed, he was a very succesfull banker and had lots of investments in the country.

Besides that, there is the incident were he took the place of the king (which his son was at that time) in the order of precedence of the baptism of the future King William III, his grandson, perhaps he was frustated he couldnt marry the woman he loved and had to abdicate because of her...(remember the Duke of Windsor) ??

That was the main cause King Willem I abdicated,he was disappointed in his sons attitude towards Henriette and his person as well as the public opinion.After his abdication at Het Loo Palace he felt free to do as he pleased and married the woman.The only one in his family who didn't critizese but supported him and Henriette was his daughter Princess Marianne,married to a adulterous Hohenzollern Princelein,with whom the couple lived for a while in Berlin untill their own place was ready.

Fortunately,HM Queen Beatrix isn't in this position,her children support her all the way.A little happiness back in her live is so well deserved,
it's touching.

 

[Sonjapearl]

Just my two cents...

I think Queen Beatrix should wait till the Orange's daughters are older, this way WA and Maxima could spend time with them. Once they are King and Queen, Willem and Maxima would not have the time to be with the 3 A's as they do now.

 

[Empress]

Beatrix is still going strong, so I doubt that we will see her abdicate any time in the very near future, otherwise we would be seeing Willem and Maxima taking on more and the Queen less. Beatrix seems like a very intelligent woman so I presume this is the way that she would go about it, rather than just abdicating and not giving any lead up.

 

[Marengo]

True, HM seems healthy enough but a scenario as in Britain is usually considered a nightmare scenario in the press.

It isn't impossible to combine raising children with being a ruling monarch, the Swedish king and queen seem to have succeeded in that, though others might have been less succesfull.

 

[bartholomeus]

I personally hope that Queen Beatrix reigns for the rest of her life. I'm not a fan of abdication...must be the British in me

That being said, I think we'll see an abdication sometime in the next 5 years.

Saw the pictures of the Royal visit to Hull on the website of the English royal house. The Qeen and the Duke seemed a bit tired.. I wonder if you British should perhaps take a more relaxed attitutde towards abdication.

In these times where the monarch performs so much more duties in the public eye (or lens)compared to the past. Perhaps abdication isnt the worst thing that could happen to the British monarchy. If only Will was the next in line

I believe that the British Queen could still remain a powerfull symbol and royal personality after her abdication. The Dutch queens that abdicated also kept public profiles and duties.

I think the unofficial tradition of abdication in the Netherlands shows that the Dutch have a 'working' monarchy, that is not just a symbol or a representation but a vibrant part of the government.

 

[Kotroman]

It's not good if an heir has to wait untill he is 50-60 imho. Not here anyway.

Why? I thought that there can never be too much preparations for the role of the head of state.

Can someone tell me how exactly the abdication works? Do they announce the abdication few days before it actually happens (so that people know when to expect the procession, balcony appearance or whatever) or does it come as a surprise? Both ways seem odd, but I guess I'm not a fan of abdication either. Queen Beatrix's reign seems to be passing with constant speculations about abdication...

 

[Stefan]

Why? I thought that there can never be too much preparations for the role of the head of state.

Can someone tell me how exactly the abdication works? Do they announce the abdication few days before it actually happens (so that people know when to expect the procession, balcony appearance or whatever) or does it come as a surprise? Both ways seem odd, but I guess I'm not a fan of abdication either. Queen Beatrix's reign seems to be passing with constant speculations about abdication...

In Queen Juliana's case she announced on the birthday of Beatrix (31. january) in a speech on TV that she would abdicate. The abdication took then place on her 71th birthday. in the morning she signed the Act of Abdication at the Royal Palace at Amsterdam and afterward presented Beatrix as new Queen on the Balcony of it. In the afternoon Beatric took the oath in the Nieuwe Kerk.

 

[Vanesa]

I think it's not time to Queen Beatrix abdication. She is an elder lady, yes, but she is still fresh and her brain is working O.K. So...what's the use to an abdication? I think it's still premature....

Vanesa.

 

[bartholomeus]

well one has to remember that the little castle she lived in before she became Queen is now restored/rebuild with extra security gates, a new elevator etc.

If I had restored or rebuild my home.. I wouldnt want to wait too long before moving in... and she's definately not moving in there before her retirement... because its too small...

 

[bartholomeus]

Any speculation on a possible abdication is not only premature but ungreatfull too for the work HM does/has done for the past 29 years.
It's not on the agenda for years to come as HM still very much enjoys her work.

I wonder why possible premature speculation about HM's abdication is ungreatfull..

I love speculating about it.. although I would love to have HM on the throne as long as possible, mostly because she is probably the most professional Queen the Dutch have ever had..

The possible abdication of HM is open for speculation because it has been a sort of unofficial tradition and is a part of Dutch history, speculation on a scientific level is therefore not at all ungreatfull, but a reflection on the history and the future of the Dutch monarchy...

 

[HRHofNothing]

Saw the pictures of the Royal visit to Hull on the website of the English royal house. The Qeen and the Duke seemed a bit tired.. I wonder if you British should perhaps take a more relaxed attitutde towards abdication.

In these times where the monarch performs so much more duties in the public eye (or lens)compared to the past. Perhaps abdication isnt the worst thing that could happen to the British monarchy. If only Will was the next in line

I believe that the British Queen could still remain a powerfull symbol and royal personality after her abdication. The Dutch queens that abdicated also kept public profiles and duties.

I think the unofficial tradition of abdication in the Netherlands shows that the Dutch have a 'working' monarchy, that is not just a symbol or a representation but a vibrant part of the government.

Abdication is dependent on the person holding the job as well: Queen Elizabeth II, IMO, probably views abdication as a violation of her duty to GOD- no matter how tried she is. She will sit on the throne until she falls off DEAD.

Abdication is a tradition in the Netherlands but I sure there are other reasons behined it as well besides being too old....From what I have read Juliana never was too comfortable with the trappings of state and Whilimenia had health problems... Beatrix is in good health and thoroughly enjoys her work. If an abdication is forthcoming it may be announced at Queen's Day this year but I honestly don't know if she has ever seiously given a though to the matter.

 

[prinsesbeagle]

I think by now she will have given it a lot of thought. I don't think the question is IF she is going to abdicate but WHEN. My guess is at a moment/date when no one expects it. Probably next year or the year after that.

 

[bartholomeus]

definitely!

To reply to the previous post of tired QEII abdicating: off course QEII outwardly shows no sign of thinking of retirement, a Dutch monarch would also keep the date of the abdication a strict secret, to show that one is considering abdication undermines authority...

so who knows, maybe QEII will abdicate in the near future...

 

[lucien]

definitely!

To reply to the previous post of tired QEII abdicating: off course QEII outwardly shows no sign of thinking of retirement, a Dutch monarch would also keep the date of the abdication a strict secret, to show that one is considering abdication undermines authority...

so who knows, maybe QEII will abdicate in the near future...

..something is brewing here,I have removed the pigsfly emoticons.
Something is the matter I can not entirely get my head around....

 

[TLLK]

I sincerely hope that Queen Beatrix will reign for a few years. But I do agree that it isn´t wise that the heir should wait until he is practically an old man, like Prince Charles, for instance. I know every country follows different rules, but I think the Dutch way is very intelligent.

I have to agree.

 

[TLLK]

When W-A assumes the throne, is he going to be known as King Willem, Willem-Alexander or Alexander?

 

[The Watcher]

When W-A assumes the throne, is he going to be known as King Willem, Willem-Alexander or Alexander?

King Willem IV, according himself in an interview a couple years ago.

Rumours btw in The Netherlands that the Queen would announce her abdication today (did not happen) or monday (birthday of the crownprince). We will see

 

[Principessa Cano]

And will Maxima become queen? I believe she isn't officially a crown princess, like the other wives of the crown princes, but will she become queen automatically as the wife of a king?

 

[TLLK]

And will Maxima become queen? I believe she isn't officially a crown princess, like the other wives of the crown princes, but will she become queen automatically as the wife of a king?

I've read that the Dutch constitution states that the consort of the monarch will be Prince or Princess of the Netherlands. Could one of our Dutch posters clarify if this is true?

 

[Empress]

Maxima holds the title Princess of the Netherlands in her own right, as well as Princess of Oranje Nassau (I believe) in her own right. As far as I am aware, Maxima will become Queen once her husband becomes king. I will have to find it, but we do have a thread on the subject.

 

[Stefan]

Maxima holds the title Princess of the Netherlands in her own right, as well as Princess of Oranje Nassau (I believe) in her own right. As far as I am aware, Maxima will become Queen once her husband becomes king. I will have to find it, but we do have a thread on the subject.

It is not yet decided. The govermentr at the time of their marriage was of the opinion that the Title King/Queen should only be held of the monarch and the spouse Prince/Princess. But public opinion was very much in favour that Máxima should become Queen. The goverment then decied to delay the Question and it should be decided by the Goverment who is in Office at the time Willem-Alexanders becomes King.

 

[bartholomeus]

According to law Maxima will actually automatically become Queen, the government has to pass a bill to change that..

even so it is her right and it would be very unorthodox to deny her the title. I think this strange position has to do with the fact that the Dutch became to accustomed to the Queen also being the head of state and gender/feminist issues also off course.

Personally I think they just have to get used to it again, in historic perspective it would be very revolutionary to have a king and princess instead of a king and queen.. It would be comparable to the wife of the Crown Prince Franz Ferdinand of Austria -for instance- who could also not receive the title of Empress after her husbands accession, because they were married morganatic. In this view one could see the possible decision of the government to withhold Maxima the title of Queen as if HRH is seen as not worthy enough for it...

I guess she'll be Queen.

 

[Marengo]

I think she will be queen too, referring to international customs instead of to equality to all (we men seem to be discriminated here ).

--
In the mean time the largest newspaper launched an article on their website two days ago about the abdication of queen Beatrix. They claim she will do so tomorrow, on her sons birthday. However in their printed edition they are more careful and only claim that there are rumours of an abdication.

This is all very tiresome and will pop up until HM will actually abdicate (which won't be tomorrow). The RVD had a hectic day, awnsering phonecalls. According to the newspaper the RVD bought airtime on the public channel, so HM would be able to announce her bdication. However, the newspaper was sloppy and forgot that IF HM has something to announce she certainly doesn't have to 'buy' time on the public channel. Some German and Belgian channels/newspaper took the Telegraaf seriously (a mistake not too many locals make, fortunately ) and were asking film footage of Willem-Alexander etc. And even in Argenina it was big news.

 

[prinsesbeagle]

De Telegraaf quickly pulled the story on their website within several hours and replaced it with the reaction from the RVD that it was not true. I don't think the first story ever made it to the print edition.

The media needs to quit this game. Everyone knows only Queen B knows when it will happen. And everyone knows no one will be told about it untill the moment is there. Even Juliana only informed the PM less than a week before she made it public and I think even beatrix herself was only told by J a few weeks before the announcement.

 

[White Princess]

Of course Máxima will became queen! The consorts of the late kings were, why shouldn't her be too? Queen Sophie, Queen Emma, they all hold that title. This is not a doubt. What I doubt if Beatrix will become a HRH like her mother and grandmother, since it's strange to see a reigning queen called "Queen Mother".