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  #21  
Old 10-19-2004, 02:00 PM
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See this is another one of those "let's get it right people" debates. Did he or didn't he finish school? Whether or not Ali has a degree/degrees doesn't mean a hill of beans to me.

I think I said before that having a degree won't always guarantee success in life. There is much more to judging someone than solely by whether or not he or she is a college graduate.

I think if Ali wants to pursue other goals in life out side of being head of security, he could do so, and be very successful in doing that with or without a degree. So for goodness sake, give the man a break!
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  #22  
Old 10-19-2004, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sommone
See this is another one of those "let's get it right people" debates. Whether or not Ali has a degree/degrees doesn't mean a hill of beans to me. I think I said before that having a degree won't always guarantee success in life. I think there is more to judging a person than solely on whether or not they finished school. The ability to obtain a degree doesn't measure the whole man. I think if Ali wants to pursue other goals in life out side of being head of security, he could do so, and possibly be very successful in doing that with or without a degree. So for goodness sake, give the man a break.
You are of course absolutely right that academic qualifications are not everything. ( But I should think that in the uncertain world of royal families it is very important that every young royal person try to equip themselves with internationally recognised qualifications, in cas e the unthinkable happens, and they find themselves having to get a job in the big bad world outside). But as an outsider and a non Jordanian, but with many Jordanian contacts, I have always got the impression, obviously mistaken, that thus far P. Ali has not really done anything very much, in personal capacity, so I am interested to read that " P.Ali is the most qualified prince in jordan beacuse when he start to do something he make it great". I am delighted for him that apparently he enjoys such a huge amount of popularity in Jordan. The contacts I have were generally of the opinion that he had rather a mixed bag of not always very 'suitable' friends, and one of the reasons he was given his
job was to give him a focus and a purpose. But anyone who thinks that he is the one who calls all the shots regarding the king's security is very much mistaken.

I agree that the King has not got a strong academic background but he certainly persued his military training with enthusiam, going to staff college and attending many courses in the UK and the US. I am not aware of P. Ali doing anything further even in the military line after Sandhurst.

And yes, I agree that for the average Jordanian a football team that is making its way to the top is probably of more interest than people who win medals in other sports. Unfortunately, that seems the way of footballers worldwide. David Beckham's exploits always seem to take precedence over everything and anyone. That is the way of the world.
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Old 10-19-2004, 02:37 PM
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You are of course absolutely right that academic qualifications are not everything. ( But I should think that in the uncertain world of royal families it is very important that every young royal person try to equip themselves with internationally recognised qualifications, in cas e the unthinkable happens, and they find themselves having to get a job in the big bad world outside). But as an outsider and a non Jordanian, but with many Jordanian contacts, I have always got the impression, obviously mistaken, that thus far P. Ali has not really done anything very much, in personal capacity, so I am interested to read that " P.Ali is the most qualified prince in jordan beacuse when he start to do something he make it great". I am delighted for him that apparently he enjoys such a huge amount of popularity in Jordan. The contacts I have were generally of the opinion that he had rather a mixed bag of not always very 'suitable' friends, and one of the reasons he was given his
job was to give him a focus and a purpose. But anyone who thinks that he is the one who calls all the shots regarding the king's security is very much mistaken.

I agree that the King has not got a strong academic background but he certainly persued his military training with enthusiam, going to staff college and attending many courses in the UK and the US. I am not aware of P. Ali doing anything further even in the military line after Sandhurst.

And yes, I agree that for the average Jordanian a football team that is making its way to the top is probably of more interest than people who win medals in other sports. Unfortunately, that seems the way of footballers worldwide. David Beckham's exploits always seem to take precedence over everything and anyone. That is the way of the world.


Well if the unthinkable should happen, not that I am wishing that, and Ali needs to gain employment, then in some capacity he still should be able to do that. If he wanted to obtain a job that qualifies that he have a certain degree then he can always go back to school. I think I said it before...It's never too late to go back to school if that is what a person wants or needs to do. Then again, he could start a business that may go on to be successful, etc. etc.
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  #24  
Old 10-19-2004, 02:55 PM
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I wonder what's his goal, is he happy doing this job he's now ? That's the only question which should matter us- me myself don't care a bit if he's got 3 degrees or no1- does a Royal Prince really need a degree ? What for- he must learn everything concerning his country's affairs and be very skilled in it- I think most of the Royal Princes ,except for P Charles of UK, have no degree at all, but they can serve their country alright-:p :( :)
I think you have an important point here ....does he want to spend the rest of his working life doing the job he is doing now, where he is neither security officier nor prince ? It must be very confusing, and not make for easy working relations with his colleagues. I once watched on television when it was K. Hussein's death anniversary ceremony and say his four brother lined up praying at their father's grave, and on that occasion, he was working. and then suddenly he is regent when the king is out of the country. And your remark asking if a Royal Prince needs a degree -I don't think they must have one but I think in this cut throat world they must have some form of specialisation in some field. You are wrong about only P. Charles having a degree. Off hand, so does P.Edward, all the Dutch Princes, all the Luxembourg princes, the crownprince of Belgium, the crownprince of Monaco, the crownprince of Japan, the crownprince of Bahrain, the king and the Moroccan princes, the crownprince of Norway. Crownprince Felipe went to university in the US as did princes Pavlos and Nicolas. I am pretty sure the Danes are well educated as Q. Margaretha is one of the best educated monarchs. And amongst his own brothers, P Feisal has a good degree and Princes Hamzah and Hashim also will soon. He will be in a minority even in his own family, and so if I were him, which I am glad I am not, I would at least go and do some more military training if that is where he plans to stay in his present job.
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Old 10-19-2004, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by shelley
I think you have an important point here ....does he want to spend the rest of his working life doing the job he is doing now, where he is neither security officier nor prince ? It must be very confusing, and not make for easy working relations with his colleagues. I once watched on television when it was K. Hussein's death anniversary ceremony and say his four brother lined up praying at their father's grave, and on that occasion, he was working. and then suddenly he is regent when the king is out of the country. And your remark asking if a Royal Prince needs a degree -I don't think they must have one but I think in this cut throat world they must have some form of specialisation in some field. You are wrong about only P. Charles having a degree. Off hand, so does P.Edward, all the Dutch Princes, all the Luxembourg princes, the crownprince of Belgium, the crownprince of Monaco, the crownprince of Japan, the crownprince of Bahrain, the king and the Moroccan princes, the crownprince of Norway. Crownprince Felipe went to university in the US as did princes Pavlos and Nicolas. I am pretty sure the Danes are well educated as Q. Margaretha is one of the best educated monarchs. And amongst his own brothers, P Feisal has a good degree and Princes Hamzah and Hashim also will soon. He will be in a minority even in his own family, and so if I were him, which I am glad I am not, I would at least go and do some more military training if that is where he plans to stay in his present job.

As long as KA is in charge, PA will have that job...I can't fathom anything other than a really bad disagreement of some kind, or PA's decision to leave on his own would be the reason for him to leave the position. However, should the unthinkable happens then he does have the option to return to school if he didn't finish to pursue his degree in whatever interests him so that he can get gainful employment. Also, I'm sure he has some connections, so that's optional as well, not saying he wouldn't or would ever use them if the need arises....Remember I don't know him personally.
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  #26  
Old 10-19-2004, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by sommone
As long as KA is in charge, PA will have that job...I can't fathom anything other than a really bad disagreement of some kind, or PA's decision to leave on his own would be the reason for him to leave the position. However, should the unthinkable happens then he does have the option to return to school if he didn't finish to pursue his degree in whatever interests him so that he can get gainful employment. Also, I'm sure he has some connections, so that's optional as well, not saying he wouldn't or would ever use them if the need arises....Remember I don't know him personally.
Well, I don't know him personally either, which is in a way what is amusing about these discussions as so many of us get heated about people and situations we can only surmise about! However, I would hope that he has some useful connections to fall back on should he need to. But it is always better to back up the best connection with something substantial as well, but that is only my rather old fashioned view. And I can never understand people who have every opportunity and no financial constraints who do not try and make something of themselves. But he has aquired a nice wife, and we are told the Jordanian football team has improved so radically, all due to his efforts, so there are some pluses on his account. Obviously this is the clue to his tremendos popularity with the youth of Jordan. Perhaps P. Charles should take a leaf out of his book and be seen cheering Beckham on. It might do wonders for his public image !
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Old 10-19-2004, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by shelley
Well, I don't know him personally either, which is in a way what is amusing about these discussions as so many of us get heated about people and situations we can only surmise about! However, I would hope that he has some useful connections to fall back on should he need to. But it is always better to back up the best connection with something substantial as well, but that is only my rather old fashioned view. And I can never understand people who have every opportunity and no financial constraints who do not try and make something of themselves. But he has aquired a nice wife, and we are told the Jordanian football team has improved so radically, all due to his efforts, so there are some pluses on his account. Obviously this is the clue to his tremendos popularity with the youth of Jordan. Perhaps P. Charles should take a leaf out of his book and be seen cheering Beckham on. It might do wonders for his public image !

You have made several good points...I do believe in a college education, but I think part of the reason that is is because I grew up poor. Not dirt poor, because I do realize there are people far worse off than anything that I have ever experienced. However, I knew that if I wanted to get somewhere in life, I was going to have to go off to school to do it. In PA's case, I don't know what his reason or reasons may have been for not finishing school...I mean one can speculate to infiniti, but unless we hear it from the horse's mouth, we will never know so...but as I said, he does have the option to return and complete school if he wants.


Also, I did point out in the past that having a degree doesn't mean anything if your going to use it to judge someone's value or worthiness because there is much more to evaluate if you are going to use it solely for this purpose. (And Shelley, I'm not saying you personally are doing this...I'm speaking in general). However, there have been people who questioned Ali's worthiness based on the fact that he didn't have a degree, and well that's just wrong on so many levels...so that was my reason for stating that Ali doesn't necessarily have to have a degree. Job wise, possibly, but not always the case. It's good to clarify these things because people have been known to take something someone says and imply other things about it, and before you know it, it has been blown completely out of proportion. There are many dimensions to Ali just as there would be to every other human on the planet.


Also, you are right about the heated arguments, which I have been known to be party to on the occasion...Not that I was out looking for an argument. That isn't who I am. However in most cases, I think that I may have tried to get people to keep an open mind about certain issues or other people...especially if, as you have stated, none of us know these people personally. However, I realized that isn't up to me to try to convince anyone to stay open minded about anything. I mean basically it was a total waste of time. I just concluded that if they wanted to do the opposite, then by all means so be it.

So, I am guilty of participating in heated discussions in the past just by contributing to them. So now I try not to even get involved. I hope no one thinks this discussion is heated because it isn't....Actually, IMO, it is far from it. But really PA has several options...right now to my knowledge his position isn't in any immediate danger. If he is happy with what he does for a living then I couldn't be happier. I'm not here to judge him.
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  #28  
Old 10-19-2004, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by sommone
You have made several good points...I do believe in a college education, but I think part of the reason that is is because I grew up poor. Not dirt poor, because I do realize there are people far worse off than anything that I have ever experienced. However, I knew that if I wanted to get somewhere in life, I was going to have to go off to school to do it. In PA's case, I don't know what his reason or reasons may have been for not finishing school...I mean one can speculate to infiniti, but unless we hear it from the horse's mouth, we will never know so...but as I said, he does have the option to return and complete school if he wants.


Also, I did point out in the past that having a degree doesn't mean anything if your going to use it to judge someone's value or worthiness because there is much more to evaluate if you are going to use it solely for this purpose. (And Shelley, I'm not saying you personally are doing this...I'm speaking in general). However, there have been people who questioned Ali's worthiness based on the fact that he didn't have a degree, and well that's just wrong on so many levels...so that was my reason for stating that Ali doesn't necessarily have to have a degree. Job wise, possibly, but not always the case. It's good to clarify these things because people have been known to take something someone says and imply other things about it, and before you know it, it has been blown completely out of proportion. There are many dimensions to Ali just as there would be to every other human on the planet.


Also, you are right about the heated arguments, which I have been known to be party to on the occasion...Not that I was out looking for an argument. That isn't who I am. However in most cases, I think that I may have tried to get people to keep an open mind about certain issues or other people...especially if, as you have stated, none of us know these people personally. However, I realized that isn't up to me to try to convince anyone to stay open minded about anything. I mean basically it was a total waste of time. I just concluded that if they wanted to do the opposite, then by all means so be it.

So, I am guilty of participating in heated discussions in the past just by contributing to them. So now I try not to even get involved. I hope no one thinks this discussion is heated because it isn't....Actually, IMO, it is far from it. But really PA has several options...right now to my knowledge his position isn't in any immediate danger. If he is happy with what he does for a living then I couldn't be happier. I'm not here to judge him.
Hey, Sommone, I don't think we are having a heated discussion on this occasion at all. Please don't think I am thinking that. I was just making a general remark that I guess it is rather amusing that we all on certain occasions are so convinced of our point of view, and guess most of us are often quite quite wrong ! I certainly do not think that one can judge someone only on the basis of their academic qualifications.I can line up ten people instantly who have good academic credentials and I would not want them to come through my front door. But I suppose what I have found interesting about the discussion about P. Ali is that here we have a young man who has had many opportunities in life, along with some blows as well, the worst being the loss of his mother, ( possibly the one person most people can rely on although I can think of people who have been hugely let down by their mother, or pushed around by step parents, and this has actually been a spur to encourage them to make something of their lives, so you cannot generalise about this) but who has really not made anything thus far of his life, by my rather old fashioned perception. And I am amazed that he is held in such high esteem by young Jordanians as the Jordanian friends I have, admittedly older people, but with children and grandchildren P. Ali's age, have commented rather negatively on his circle of friends , their propensity to drink too much and get into fights. Many people I believe will give a restaurant or cafe a wide berth if they know he is inside. And although some may consider it loyalty of a sort, he still mixes with many of these people even though he now holds a hughly responsible job. ( Many of them have benefited financially with contracts etc through him, but I guess that is normal for most Arab princes )Although there are those who will say that it is an attempt to bismirch his reputation, you do not hear the same crticism of the other princes' friends. So I wonder how much is truth , how much exaggeration and if indeed he is such a hero, what exactly do the Jordanian youth want from their princes ? Delivering the goods on football cannot be the only reason .
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  #29  
Old 10-19-2004, 05:39 PM
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Well Shelley, I can't speak about the choice of company Ali keeps...You obviously have friends or people whom you know that may know of these things...I remember growing up and having a questionable friend of my own. To say that my mom was unhappy would be an understatement. However, I didn't let her behavior influence mine. I used my own mind, and thought for myself. I'm sure other people thought the same negative things about my friendship with her, but then I am not a prince whose life is constantly under the microscope.

As far as his popularity in Jordan, maybe he's popular because he's kind, considerate, etc. etc. Maybe he's popular because people pity the fact that he grew up without his mother, whom I think it is safe to say was a good mother and person in her own right. Maybe he is popular because of other things...go figure. He could be popular for a number of reasons. I do have questions though...When he was made regent, what does that mean? And is he still regent?
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  #30  
Old 10-19-2004, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone
Well Shelley, I can't speak about the choice of company Ali keeps...You obviously have friends or people whom you know that may know of these things...I remember growing up and having a questionable friend of my own. To say that my mom was unhappy would be an understatement. However, I didn't let her behavior influence mine. I used my own mind, and thought for myself. I'm sure other people thought the same negative things about my friendship with her, but then I am not a prince whose life is constantly under the microscope.

As far as his popularity in Jordan, maybe he's popular because he's kind, considerate, etc. etc. Maybe he's popular because people pity the fact that he grew up without his mother, whom I think it is safe to say was a good mother and person in her own right. Maybe he is popular because of other things...go figure. He could be popular for a number of reasons. I do have questions though...When he was made regent, what does that mean? And is he still regent?

No, he is only regent occasionally, when none of the other brothers are around, and beign regent is normally only for a few days at a time. But it is odd that at this moment he reverts to being a prince and not security officer even though his 'principal' is travelling which is potentially a dangerous situation. Which is why I wonder how much actual guarding responsibility he has. And I am still not convinved how popular he actually is across the board.....maybe with a certain number of teenage groupies. Now I sound very middle aged as indeed I am.
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Old 10-19-2004, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by shelley
No, he is only regent occasionally, when none of the other brothers are around, and beign regent is normally only for a few days at a time. But it is odd that at this moment he reverts to being a prince and not security officer even though his 'principal' is travelling which is potentially a dangerous situation. Which is why I wonder how much actual guarding responsibility he has. And I am still not convinved how popular he actually is across the board.....maybe with a certain number of teenage groupies. Now I sound very middle aged as indeed I am.

I can't say just how popular he is in Jordan...I think it was a couple of Jordanian members on here who mentioned his popularity among the youth...I know why I admire him, but then I'm only one person who is not Jordanian. What I find interesting is how some people won't leave his past alone....Sure he may have made some mistakes, but at least to my knowledge, he is doing much better. So, I hope that will continue. His past mistakes make no difference to me as long as he has learned from them.
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  #32  
Old 10-20-2004, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by shelley
I think you have an important point here ....does he want to spend the rest of his working life doing the job he is doing now, where he is neither security officier nor prince ? It must be very confusing, and not make for easy working relations with his colleagues. I once watched on television when it was K. Hussein's death anniversary ceremony and say his four brother lined up praying at their father's grave, and on that occasion, he was working. and then suddenly he is regent when the king is out of the country. And your remark asking if a Royal Prince needs a degree -I don't think they must have one but I think in this cut throat world they must have some form of specialisation in some field. You are wrong about only P. Charles having a degree. Off hand, so does P.Edward, all the Dutch Princes, all the Luxembourg princes, the crownprince of Belgium, the crownprince of Monaco, the crownprince of Japan, the crownprince of Bahrain, the king and the Moroccan princes, the crownprince of Norway. Crownprince Felipe went to university in the US as did princes Pavlos and Nicolas. I am pretty sure the Danes are well educated as Q. Margaretha is one of the best educated monarchs. And amongst his own brothers, P Feisal has a good degree and Princes Hamzah and Hashim also will soon. He will be in a minority even in his own family, and so if I were him, which I am glad I am not, I would at least go and do some more military training if that is where he plans to stay in his present job.
He's got a Standhurst grad, though he never did any military training, that's very odd, as all his bros has done it, I remember Hamzah and Hashim often do a military training, Hamzah even did it in Polonia and in kosovo, that's 1 thing which is very important for a Royal Prince to do-
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Old 10-20-2004, 04:05 AM
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He's got a Standhurst grad, though he never did any military training, that's very odd, as all his bros has done it, I remember Hamzah and Hashim often do a military training, Hamzah even did it in Polonia and in kosovo, that's 1 thing which is very important for a Royal Prince to do-
do you need to a some kind of degree to be able to get into Sandhurst or is the fact that he is a prince gets him access automatically?
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  #34  
Old 10-23-2004, 08:20 AM
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I'm curious to see what role P. Rym will have in Jordan.
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Old 10-23-2004, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by bluetortuga
I'm curious to see what role P. Rym will have in Jordan.
i think she is going to start from football as she is going to open women football game i dont think she is realy like football
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Old 10-23-2004, 02:46 PM
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It is difficult to say what is suitable for P. Ali and Rym.

I think it is easy to say: a degree doesn't matter, doesn't make a good person, husband or wife. But unfortunately we don't live only with emotion, love, and so. There are many things that should be considered in everyday life.

So, if we keep emotion apart and think logicaly, I beleive when a man has lower degree than his wife, it makes situation more difficult than when she has lower degree than him. This is true in western as in eastern societies.

Love is important, but being equal in education and interests, brings harmony to the couple, and selfesteem.
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Old 11-25-2004, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Safaa Batin
I want to say some thing about having a degree, there is a theory that I believe in, may be we can call it the roles theory , according to which the value of any person in the society is determined by his work - what she/he did for the society, every one has role in this life so the educated person has the same value as the farmer for example as long as each of them is doing his role, but unfortunatly in most societies being educated or intellectual give you a brivilage , in the same time where the need of a farmer or a seller...etc, even without a degree is not less. Unfortunatly too that we the educated along with intellectuals try to preserve our brivilages by promoting the idea that the educated are superiors, through media, press and books, that -unfortunatly too- we do monopolize.

Reflecting that on P Ali case, he has a job, he make very useful task in football federation...still (need) a degree?
I do agree about some of what you said: it's important to have a job, either by being educated with a degree or just a farmer without a degree, since in each case they bring something useful to people.

But the question that we have to ask is how much important the job we are doing, and specialy when the person who does this job has power and possibilty to do better. So what does football bring to people and how much does affect their lifes?
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Old 11-25-2004, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by abir
I do agree about some of what you said: it's important to have a job, either by being educated with a degree or just a farmer without a degree, since in each case they bring something useful to people.

But the question that we have to ask is how much important the job we are doing, and specialy when the person who does this job has power and possibilty to do better. So what does football bring to people and how much does affect their lifes?
i want to say that what P A occupied now is more that any one else i mean he appear too much on TV as a bodygaurd and as a prince you feel how much they recpect him when he is travling with the king waht is requiered from him is more than that but i think he started to put his foot in the right way
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Old 11-25-2004, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abir
I do agree about some of what you said: it's important to have a job, either by being educated with a degree or just a farmer without a degree, since in each case they bring something useful to people.

But the question that we have to ask is how much important the job we are doing, and specialy when the person who does this job has power and possibilty to do better. So what does football bring to people and how much does affect their lifes?
the effect of football is the effect of sport, knowing that football i the most popular sport.
beside being the national passion and a symbol of the national character, sport develops strong ,healthy and confident individuals, so productive citizens.
sport has the power to raise aspiration, inspire generations, and affect the communities , it has effect on culture and values.
Some believe that international sport competetions are important part of the foreign policy.
Besides it is the source of income of the players.
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Old 11-26-2004, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Safaa Batin
the effect of football is the effect of sport, knowing that football i the most popular sport.
beside being the national passion and a symbol of the national character, sport develops strong ,healthy and confident individuals, so productive citizens.
sport has the power to raise aspiration, inspire generations, and affect the communities , it has effect on culture and values.
Some believe that international sport competetions are important part of the foreign policy.
Besides it is the source of income of the players.
Again, I do agree about what you said, healthy brain bcuz of a healthy body.
But I am thinking about what jordanian people do need beside football. I don't think football does occupied their thinking all the time, and not all do gain their lives from football.

People have daily needs and problems, they watch football only the weekends and doesn't occupied them whole day. So it's petty that the prince is busy only in football and nothing more, something more fruitful to the majority of jordanian people.
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