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  #301  
Old 06-14-2007, 08:00 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaya
Charlene's Wittsock's inclusion in the Olympic team has been noted and lauded if you please read past posts.
She's only part of the national team at this point.
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  #302  
Old 06-14-2007, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by WindsorIII
The strangest thing of all is, if you look at this commission who is forming these programs and fighting the hardest to encourage athletes to get educations and careers after their sports career is over, Prince Albert himself is part of.
Maybe she is his own personal project

But quite frankly, I believe that the IOC should't be spending money on former athletes to get an education. They should be taught by parents and coaches from the very beginning that a good education is just as important and that an athlete always needs a plan B for times of injury. If sport structures are from the beginning supportive of education and sports, then they wouldn't have to rescucitate the baby after it fell into the well. prevention is always cheaper and easier than actual treatment. not smoking is easier then fighting lungcancer. Putting on sunscreen is less expensive then skincancertreatment. Putting a fence around your pool might not be estatically thrilling, but your toddler might stay alive. Putting on a seatbelt might put cringes in your fresh shirt, but who is going to care about that when you are being driven to the cemetary? ... And if they haven't learnt the lesson , they will have to suffer the consequences. people are also free to muck up their lives and most of them when they finished their careers are way into adulthood and shouldn't expect to be held by the hand from Jacques Rogge and Co. The money would be better spend on countries and athletes that have very limited opportunities to offer and actually are in desperate need of funds. Those old athletes have taken from federations for a long number of years, whether they are successful or not. Wen does their time come to give sth back in return, especially when they haven't fullfilled their side of the bargain? It seems to be quite symptomatic that everyone is always about taking. If everyone always takes without giving anything in return, who will be the ones giving then ultimately?
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  #303  
Old 06-14-2007, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paca
Maybe she is his own personal project

But quite frankly, I believe that the IOC should't be spending money on former athletes to get an education. They should be taught by parents and coaches from the very beginning that a good education is just as important and that an athlete always needs a plan B for times of injury. If sport structures are from the beginning supportive of education and sports, then they wouldn't have to rescucitate the baby after it fell into the well. prevention is always cheaper and easier than actual treatment. not smoking is easier then fighting lungcancer. Putting on sunscreen is less expensive then skincancertreatment. Putting a fence around your pool might not be estatically thrilling, but your toddler might stay alive. Putting on a seatbelt might put cringes in your fresh shirt, but who is going to care about that when you are being driven to the cemetary? ... And if they haven't learnt the lesson , they will have to suffer the consequences. people are also free to muck up their lives and most of them when they finished their careers are way into adulthood and shouldn't expect to be held by the hand from Jacques Rogge and Co. The money would be better spend on countries and athletes that have very limited opportunities to offer and actually are in desperate need of funds. Those old athletes have taken from federations for a long number of years, whether they are successful or not. Wen does their time come to give sth back in return, especially when they haven't fullfilled their side of the bargain? It seems to be quite symptomatic that everyone is always about taking. If everyone always takes without giving anything in return, who will be the ones giving then ultimately?
Absolutely agree! The wise athletes and their families know full well that the lifespan of an athletic career is often very short - the smart ones plan ahead.
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  #304  
Old 06-14-2007, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brother
She's only part of the national team at this point.
Thanks brother but I was alluding to the constant reference that she on the 2000 Oympic team.But thanks again.
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  #305  
Old 06-14-2007, 12:17 PM
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Every time I come into the Monaco forum and see the title of this thread, "What do you think of Charlene?" I get the same 2 thoughts running thru my head. Either, "I try not to (think of Charlene)" or "Not much". She has been around for over a year and she doesn't seem to be learning to quickly. I just had to finally say it out loud. Fewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, I feel better now.
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  #306  
Old 06-14-2007, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandsla
It's too little, too late & we have had a year and a half to form our opinions. As the saying goes...

It's one thing to be thought a fool, and another to open your mouth and prove it!
GREAT POST, Thanks Sandsla,

I agree completely with you, by analyzing her acts, her words, her gestures, her past... one cannot like nor to appreciate this young woman, something in us (of deepest of our hearts) would like to leave and to shout "We know ourselves who she is really, we studied her, WE KNOW... made to us confidence...
an example which supplements your analysis. CW claims that she takes part in an association of assistance for disadvantaged children, not a photo, not of name of this association... Charlene was never photographed in company of children other than of the swimmers and still she seems badly at ease with them
and read my post #96 lckc571 http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...e-12875-5.html

here why one cannot appreciate her and find that it is a horror to see she becoming First Lady of Monaco...
she which likes only her, which doesn't loves the people Monegasque, neither medium of swimming, she speaks neither about her team nor other athletes... and importance should be given her???

lckc571
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  #307  
Old 06-14-2007, 12:42 PM
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I don't think Charlene has the "pizazz" that Caroline, Grace, or Diana and Stephanie or Jackie Kennedy had. She's just kind of there, where as the previous 5 ladies mentioned seemed to have a real "star" presence that makes you want to know more about them or makes you want to buy that magazine if they are on the cover. There's nothing wrong with Charlene, she just seems rather "blah" compared to the other ladies.
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  #308  
Old 06-14-2007, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hibou
I think what the objection has been is that for the past year we have had her give statements to Bunte and others about her training. Then she turns up with Albert here there and everywhere. Then we hear more about her training. Then more here there and everywhere. Even young swimmers can't keep that kind of schedule. So I think the objection is the integrity of her statements as she seems to say one thing and then do another.

Obviously she swam enough to get a third place finish but as paca pointed out the top SA swimmers were not there. Had she not surfaced all over the place with Albert, I'm sure we would applaud her effort. It is hard to applaud the effort when it appears not to be there. Again I am not saying she didn't train, I am saying it appears she did not put her best effort into it. If I were a fellow athlete spending my life in a pool trying to qualify I would resent her. JMO
BRAVO - I could not have said it better myself, hibou!

This is a very interesting thread, imo.

imo CW talks the talk, but then does not walk the walk - instead she and the magazines say a lot, then she parades around with Albert.

JMO

Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Has anyone ever stopped to think that Albert doesn't WANT a virtuous, educated, beautiful, and cultured woman who could stand beside the image of Princess Grace? It sounds a little gross, as if Albert were marrying his own mother.

And Princess Grace thought Ernst August of Hannover would be an ideal companion for her daughter and I am sure that Ernst makes Caroline happy but he is rather boorish acting and doesn't act very well educated or cultured. So Grace's judgment of character isn't 100% correct.

And as far as the assertion that Charlene has accomplished nothing but being able to chew gum and walk at the same time then all I can say is that some must have forgotten the discussion here about her inclusion in the Olympic team

Once all the members here can get on an Olympic team with no preparation and no work, then yes, I would say that getting on an Olympic team shows no merit or achievement whatsoever; however until then, I think you are wrong.
OK, once again, she was included in the Olympic team 7 years ago as many have said already. Her olympic glory was good, but it is a past glory. The past is a nice place to visit, but one should not and cannot live there.


Today it is not the case that she is on anyone's Olympic team. Her name is listed on the SA National team -- the 2007/2008 SA Olympic team has been named and Charlene Wittstock is not on the list.

we will have to wait and see if that changes or not.

you can see the list here: #279

Quote:
Originally Posted by WindsorIII
Very true, Very true. I think it is very apparent that no one is disputing that it is commendable that CW when to the Olympics in 2007. But come on people, it was 7 years ago and since then she has done nothing with her life but become a mistress to PA. That is a bit dismal.

Furthermore, her claims to be training and accepting sponsorship monies etc, while she is really just partying IMO is very dishonest and hense shows me that she did not entirely take on all the admirable characteristics of an Olympian.

After reflecting on all of this writing about Olympic athletes I went to our neighbor who is a skater and asked her opinion. She pointed me to the official site of the Olympic movment so I will put those links here.

She explained in great detail how The Internatnional Olympic committee is focusing many of its programs to facilitate life after the Olympics. She said the IOC President, (ironically the man sitting on the other side of PA and CW during the opening of the Games of the Small States last week,) has made it his mission to get the message out that the worst reflection on the Olympic Movement besides drugs, is to have an entire generation of Olympic bums who do nothing with their lives after the Games.

The IOC is spending millions of dollars to make sure athletes don’t turn out like Charlene and will go on to do something else, not just live off the past glory of one event.

http://www.olympic.org/uk/organisation/commissions/athletes/full_story_uk.asp?id=2053

INTERNATIONAL OLYMPIC COMMITTEE - ORGANISATION - STRUCTURES

INTERNATIONAL OLYMPIC COMMITTEE - ORGANISATION - STRUCTURES

The strangest thing of all is, if you look at this commission who is forming these programs and fighting the hardest to encourage athletes to get educations and careers after their sports career is over, Prince Albert himself is part of.
So, then CW is actually the poster child for the IOC effort on that
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  #309  
Old 06-14-2007, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paca
Avalon, There is an advert, I believe by mercedes, which assembles former champions in their sports (Boris Becker, mika Hakkinen etc etc) who are sitting together discussing sports and winning. One of the older ones says: it is all about winning and being number one. No one wants to be number 2. you give me a number 2 and I show you a loser. And that is basically summing it up. It adds up in the count to win a silver or bronze and is admittedly an achievment to finish in the top ten, some athletes are content when they achieve a personal best and are being allowed to compete with the very best ( the are often just as starstruck as the regular audience), but ultimately the gold is the only metal that counts. even very young children understand that and burst into tears when they don't get it. And it is very disappointing when you are not on top of your abilities or even injured to compete for the gold. My own grandfather was qualified for the Berlin Olympics running the 100m in less then 11secs. He unfortunetely was injured briefly before and could not compete. He never put his running shoes on after the war. He never went to watch his daughter compete in the nationals or any other competition. Only when we were training he would come near the track, but never to see a competition (unless he was secretly hiding in the bushes). All I knew as a child was that he used to be crazy about sports when he was young. He always watched it, like most people I knew, on TV, even the summer he died it appeared as if he had waited for the athletic world championships to be finished. I only learned at the funeral about his sportive past. Not being able to compete was a defeat that he has never overcome. My mother never got over the fact that her children lacked the abilities to compete at least at national level. She saw that as her own personal failure as much as ours. We children ended up, doing nothing related to athletics once we had our own say, not even getting our children signed up. My niece signed herself up and seems to have some talent for her age, so my mother is reconciled with the world, but indeed the fact that my grandfather was not able to compete due to his injury can be felt even generations afterwards. Personally of course I think he should have gotten over it and made the most of it, but that's not who he was. I wonder if Charlene as well had to struggle afterwards due to only being fifth. We know that her relationship broke down afterwards and that she suffered an injury. Now she seems to be hanging on to ALbert for dear life inspite of his infidelities and the humiliations she is being exposed to. Her life might have had a totally different course had she won the gold. Do you think that then she would have accepted to be cheated on or being ignored by Caroline and her family? I even think that these things wouldn't have happened to her in that case. A medal does not change who you are but it changes the way that you are being perceived and of course it gives an incredible boost to your confidence. So without wanting to put down her sportive achievements, there is a large difference between 1st and 5th in the Olympics and not only does the world know it, but most of all she knows it. And IMHO she has not put it aside yet. Otherwise she would not repetitively point out that she wants to be in Beijing. If it was finished in her head she could move on and do sth else with her life. Albert is just sth like an insurrance to her. She needs him more then he needs her ad that makes for quite an imbalanced relationship.
I think we should agree to disagree. You have formed your opinion and you give some excellent points and great ideas.

I don't think it's all about winning. yes, I know that every single athlete hopes, dreams and aims at victory only and they say there is no more bitter medal then the silver one, because you are this close to the gold one, but I think even the fifth place in the finals (I'm not talking necessarily of Charlene) can inspire and adertise swimming in a country, where it's not very popular.
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  #310  
Old 06-14-2007, 09:21 PM
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Ladies, you all bring up good points but there is a great deal of difference between saying that a person achieved something and then let herself and everyone else down when she didn't follow up on it and saying that she is totally worthless and hasn't done anything worthwhile in her life.

The story of what happens to athletes once they leave their sport is a problematic one and it can be sad and fascinating at the same time because sometimes they're fantastically successful and sometimes they are not always successful. I read once where Charlene was doing some auto advertisements so it appears she is going into the product endorsement route. That's often been done by other athletes. Mark Spitz, a swimmer, who won more gold medals than any other athlete floundered around for quite a long time until he found his post-Olympic career. He tried acting, he tried commercials, he tried the public celebrity circuit. I'm not saying that athletes train for the Olympics just so they can do commercials afterwards but parlaying one's name to sell stuff on tv is a time-honored post-Olympic career.

So if Charlene has done the celebrity circuit, she's no different from a lot of other former athletes, she's done commercials, that's no different than a lot of other former athletes, she's dating a royal that's been done by other athletes too (well if you look at Inaki, Princess Cristina's husband, he's a forner Olympian that met a royal at the Olympics and married her) Her inelegance is also a mark of a sportsperson who has switched to the celebrity circuit.

The question is whether she will be the first lady of Monaco - God only knows the answer to that question. At first I thought Albert was a womanizer but it does look like he likes these Olympic athletes and incorrigible womanizers don't go for Olympic athletes. He's done a lot for sports in Monaco. He partnered with Michael Schumacher, the great car racer to sponsor some events in Monaco, like the soccer match Michael held. The Monaco soccer team is starting to get respect in the rest of Europe, Albert started the Small Countries Games.

Sports seems to be where Albert's heart is so it seems perfectly natural that he would choose a sportswoman as a bride. He couldn't choose a current sportswoman because her sports career would conflict with her being a princess. But with that interest in sports, he's not going to choose someone like Grace because Grace was too elegant, too ethereal, not down-to-earth enough and it appears he likes women who are a little rough around the edges. I don't think there's going to be a second Grace in the Palais de Monte Carlo anytime soon.

Are they going to get married? Like I said I have no idea but Albert has surprised me here; I didn't think he had this side to him so there is a possibility that he's sticking it out with the type of woman that HE likes best and is just biding his time till he can get one of his types of women into the Palais de Monte Carlo. But the fact that her wardrobe and behavior has gotten better is a sign that Albert may be positioning her as a potential bride.

Or maybe not. What the hell, we're only guessing.
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  #311  
Old 06-14-2007, 11:12 PM
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Time will tell

Albert, imo, seems to be including her in more public appearances , so girls this may be the one.I dont know. What do the citizens of Monaco think about her? =:patriot:
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  #312  
Old 06-15-2007, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish ladybug
What do the citizens of Monaco think about her? =:patriot:
From what I hear only the worst. They see the age gap, they see how ordinary she is, how much she likes to be paraded around, how bad her behaviour is etc etc. They see this all the time with other young women marrying significantly older rich men and they had hoped for sth better for their prince. But most importantly they are taking off their rosecoloured glasses when it comes to Albert now. So maybe this is not such a bad development after all, because they are doing what most people in democratic countries are doing everyday: they openly comment on developments in their country and they are not swallowing everything that is put in front of them. they might not be able to do anything about this, but they have the chance of making themselves heard in other matters. And that might actually change the political life in Monaco significantly.
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  #313  
Old 06-15-2007, 04:28 AM
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I remember when Rainier died, and some said Albert would never be able to properly replace his father...I guess 2 years later Albie has managed to prove them all right. Plus he took the great asset Grace brought with her from Hollywood, the "Fairytale" and glamour that attracted many many people from all over the world (like us here) to care about the tiny Principality, and threw it in the trash can. I personally have stopped buying mags about the family (except Caro) and am not even inetersted in what goes on in Monaco anymore, and I'm sorry to read that apparently the Moneguasque feel very disappointed as well. Well done Albie, well done!
I have just one advice for you: keep your sisters around as much as possible to balance Miss Wittstock's presence, and hope Char really becomes the next Caroline in terms of allure and glamour...

ETA: Paca, thanks for the insight.
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  #314  
Old 06-15-2007, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paca
From what I hear only the worst. They see the age gap, they see how ordinary she is, how much she likes to be paraded around, how bad her behaviour is etc etc. They see this all the time with other young women marrying significantly older rich men and they had hoped for sth better for their prince. But most importantly they are taking off their rosecoloured glasses when it comes to Albert now. So maybe this is not such a bad development after all, because they are doing what most people in democratic countries are doing everyday: they openly comment on developments in their country and they are not swallowing everything that is put in front of them. they might not be able to do anything about this, but they have the chance of making themselves heard in other matters. And that might actually change the political life in Monaco significantly.
I hope this galvanizes the citizens of Monaco to take matters into their own hands so that they are not taken down by a Prince who appears to think that all he has to do is smile at the cameras and shake hands in which case that's about all Charlene can do too. Tweedle dee...
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  #315  
Old 06-15-2007, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace
I personally have stopped buying mags about the family (except Caro) and am not even inetersted in what goes on in Monaco anymore.
I've even stopped buying articles about Caro. In the 70s the Grimaldis were one of my favorite families but I think they hav gone the soap opera rather than the royal circuit. Between Caroline's string of husbands (playboy, the most boorish titled person in Europe), Stephanie's significant others (bodyguard, circus clown, etc. ) and out of wedlock children and Albert's out of wedlock children and string of girlfriends over 20 years, I think the main interest in the Grimaldis now is for shock value.

But I think that Monaco has always had this mercenary type of reputation although Grace's presence put a shiny veneer of respectability on it. Wasn't Monaco's main claim to fame before Grace its gambling casino and its tax haven status for the rich? To a lot of Monagesques, Grace's main value is that she attracted a lot more people to visit Monaco and gamble in the casinos. I even think a large number of the people you see in Monaco are not originally Monagesque but they are either in town for the gambling or they've moved to Monaco to save on taxes. Monaco seems supported by a (shall I say) a mercenary population?

But then again, that may be all it can support. Its a very tiny country and it doesn't have any room to grow and support industry and jobs if a lot of people decide they want to make Monaco their home. I think because of Monaco's size, its hard for it to escape its main value being an entertainment spectacle and a guilty pleasure for the rest of the world. Albert seems to do something with sports which is more reputable than other types of entertainment so maybe he and Charlene could make a good pair for Monaco. Its not Rainier and Grace but it could work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hibou
I hope this galvanizes the citizens of Monaco to take matters into their own hands so that they are not taken down by a Prince who appears to think that all he has to do is smile at the cameras and shake hands in which case that's about all Charlene can do too. Tweedle dee...
I think Monaco's population are a bit too mercenary to get up in arms. If Albert starts to endanger some of their privileges, I think they will revolt but I don't think they will revolt if he just chooses a consort they think is unsuitable. As others have mentioned they thought Grace was unsuitable but then they were able to turn the situation to their advantage.
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  #316  
Old 06-15-2007, 09:23 AM
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Well, I for one hope that she manages to gain a bit more elegance before any wedding plans are announced. She is just not elegant, not in the way that she moves (although that might have something to do with her swimmers body type) nor in the way that she looks or dresses.

I think becoming a princess will be one heck of a shock for her.
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  #317  
Old 06-15-2007, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
I've even stopped buying articles about Caro. In the 70s the Grimaldis were one of my favorite families but I think they hav gone the soap opera rather than the royal circuit. Between Caroline's string of husbands (playboy, the most boorish titled person in Europe),
Well, I like her for who she is, not her husbands.
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  #318  
Old 06-15-2007, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
I've even stopped buying articles about Caro. In the 70s the Grimaldis were one of my favorite families but I think they hav gone the soap opera rather than the royal circuit. Between Caroline's string of husbands (playboy, the most boorish titled person in Europe), Stephanie's significant others (bodyguard, circus clown, etc. ) and out of wedlock children and Albert's out of wedlock children and string of girlfriends over 20 years, I think the main interest in the Grimaldis now is for shock value.

But I think that Monaco has always had this mercenary type of reputation although Grace's presence put a shiny veneer of respectability on it. Wasn't Monaco's main claim to fame before Grace its gambling casino and its tax haven status for the rich? To a lot of Monagesques, Grace's main value is that she attracted a lot more people to visit Monaco and gamble in the casinos. I even think a large number of the people you see in Monaco are not originally Monagesque but they are either in town for the gambling or they've moved to Monaco to save on taxes. Monaco seems supported by a (shall I say) a mercenary population?

But then again, that may be all it can support. Its a very tiny country and it doesn't have any room to grow and support industry and jobs if a lot of people decide they want to make Monaco their home. I think because of Monaco's size, its hard for it to escape its main value being an entertainment spectacle and a guilty pleasure for the rest of the world. Albert seems to do something with sports which is more reputable than other types of entertainment so maybe he and Charlene could make a good pair for Monaco. Its not Rainier and Grace but it could work.



I think Monaco's population are a bit too mercenary to get up in arms. If Albert starts to endanger some of their privileges, I think they will revolt but I don't think they will revolt if he just chooses a consort they think is unsuitable. As others have mentioned they thought Grace was unsuitable but then they were able to turn the situation to their advantage.
Paca pointed out that they didn't think Grace was suitable because of Rainier's mistress Gisele Pascal who was an actress. Yes Grace had to overcome alot and had Rainier not been so successful in bringing Monaco to fame and fortune (which Grace helped to do) she would have remained unpopular. Their team work was brilliant and Grace knew how to push Rainier's agenda. Albert on the other hand is not turning out to be the leader his people had prayed for when his father died. If the economics of Monaco start to tank, Albert and Charlene will get the blame and people will take matters of their economic well being into their own hands. Ultimately, Albert could end up being a figure head of a Governement his father once ruled with an iron fist. Grace was the velvet glove. I don't see Charlene having the brains to pull that off. Her interviews which were designed to introduce and and promote her have been negatively received. JMO
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  #319  
Old 06-15-2007, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace
Well, I like her for who she is, not her husbands
I like Caroline too but at some point, I believe that one must judge a person's character on the people that they choose to associate with so I think its fair to judge Caroline's character by the character of the men she has chosen to share her life with.

To be honest, I think Albert's girlfriend Charlene shows a bit more character than any of Caroline's consorts. I admit that showing greater character than Caroline's husbands is really no great accomplishment for Charlene or anybody else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress
Well, I for one hope that she manages to gain a bit more elegance before any wedding plans are announced. She is just not elegant, not in the way that she moves (although that might have something to do with her swimmers body type) nor in the way that she looks or dresses.

I think becoming a princess will be one heck of a shock for her.
I totally agree but I think this just may be what she is. It depends on what kind of image Albert wants his house to project. We're used to the glamourous look of royalty but they may come up with a different image for themselves and the Monaco house. That is if he's looking for marriage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hibou
If the economics of Monaco start to tank, Albert and Charlene will get the blame and people will take matters of their economic well being into their own hands.
I totally agree, I think the people of Monaco are looking after their own bank accounts. If Albert's programs succeed then he can marry anybody he wants and pull it off. If his programs don't, then it doesn't matter who he marries.
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  #320  
Old 06-15-2007, 11:05 AM
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As for who Caro associates herself with, I'd take them over CW anytime but it is very much a matter of opinion.
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