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  #241  
Old 06-10-2007, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyMichelle
from Polfoto...
For me this picture shows what she wants.
Look the her face.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e6..._POLFOTO-1.jpg

She wants money, flash, applauses, and people claim for her.
All thinghs that she never had...
she was a medium level swimmer. she is an ineducated girl. Without diploma. Without money.

I know , maybe I'm too hard with her. But, I'm that kind of woman that in her life had a lot of wars to win. Marry a man with $ is maybe the best thing to do. But I think that is not the good way to have what you need.

If you want something , you have to work work and work.
I was a chubby little girl, and I disliked my body... I worked hard and now I'm a nice girl, with a good body shape.
I was considered stupid, and after hours and hours of study, I'm taking my 2° deegree. (The first in Law, the second in Political Science)
when I was teenager I always use money (a lot of money tu buy dresses) of my parents... but growing up I decided to work hard and have my personal money.
I started my career working as receptionist... now I'm the assistant of a Politician...and I'll open soon my personal agency of PR.

And I'm sure that like me there are bilions of woman that everiday do it. Bilions of woman, who fighting for what they need. Fighting for what they believe.

Bilions of woman , but not CW...


Without him, she is nothing.

M.
There are also many women who cannot get what they truly want so they manage a way to get someone who has it (like Albert) and they purr all over him, make him feel young and interesting and soak in the benefit of being mistress to a rich man like Albert. Me, I'm not so sure about that approach, but ok, it works for some women. It is a way of accomplishing something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Come on... we haven't seen anything from her. Every new royal lady was met with scepticism. Yet all of them: Camilla, Letizia, Máxima, etc. have turned out to be great spouses. So why not Charlene.

I guess, CW might be ok - I still think it's not realistic to compare CW to any of them. The other royal families seem to have different way of dong things in public - many of the recent princesses (& Camilla) have complet education and had careers and imo, carried themselves quite well. They also had the full up-front support of their Princes (and the organization) with clearly stated their intentions for these women. Albert has clearly stated his intention not to marry anyone, which is quite opposite of what one would expect from 'royalty' at least imo. But, this CW thing is no precedent in history and we are talking (basically) about Albert of Monaco.

CW has achieved the Olympics a long time ago, but I just don't think she's quite got it for representing MC at the moment. That's just my opinion and it means nothing, in fact. She does seem to have hold of Albert's (*bleep* - I will censor myself), and that's probably all that matters. IMO PA seems fickle, spoiled and just not serious other than having a girl on his arm that cannot outshine him (my opinion only). Since they've decided to put up with each other, then they both have what they ask for. Again, history shows that there is no precedent being set in any of it. Nothing at all new about it at all.

In the end could this actually be good for Monaco?
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  #242  
Old 06-10-2007, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillia
maybe so, but at least Britain's Queen has beautiful manner and knows how to act in public! She at least has a flawless public manner, knows how to handle herself and there has never been a question about her ability. Britain has a true queen in HRH, not some cheap paper substitute! Perhaps it would be useless to compare someone like CW to Britain's queen. Things are just not like they used to be.
But do you think she was born like that? She has been trained to act perfect in public. That has been her life. The only life she knows. I think it would be unfair to compare Charlene to the Queen, just like it would be unfair to compare Charlene to any royal born.
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  #243  
Old 06-10-2007, 06:19 PM
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Grace Kelly

Remember that Monaco was not at all hullabaloo with the prospect of their Prince marrying an actress. In an interview (aired last week on Dutch TV, in a special on Princess Gracia) the late Prince Rainier himself stated he had to fight scepticism and even hostility in the principality and in his own palace.

Yet Princess Gracia is by many seen as a 'perfect Princess', at least, if we do not look furtherer than a superficial look at the sugarcake fondant.

And I fail to see why Charlene Wittstock would be lesser than the playboy Philippe Junot or the playboy Stefano Casiraghi, the bodyguard Daniël Ducruet, the circus artist Adans Lopes Peres, etc.
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  #244  
Old 06-10-2007, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Remember that Monaco was not at all hullabaloo with the prospect of their Prince marrying an actress. In an interview (aired last week on Dutch TV, in a special on Princess Gracia) the late Prince Rainier himself stated he had to fight scepticism and even hostility in the principality and in his own palace.

Yet Princess Gracia is by many seen as a 'perfect Princess', at least, if we do not look furtherer than a superficial look at the sugarcake fondant.

And I fail to see why Charlene Wittstock would be lesser than the playboy Philippe Junot or the playboy Stefano Casiraghi, the bodyguard Daniël Ducruet, the circus artist Adans Lopes Peres, etc.
I am sorry to say it but one expects that the future princess is qualities, innate qualities, Charlene shows us what exactly... she is not involved any more, she claims to occupy oneself of disadvantaged children, not only one photo which could support her action (there really exists)

she never speaks about her team for the relay of swimming... which must one think? what don't they want any more her??
which example does she show with the young people? not need to work??? even in the sport?? not need to go to the school since she did stop very early and is left there well??? do you put the question???

if your boy brought back Charlene to the house and his intention announced to you to marry her ??? which would be your reaction?
lckc
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  #245  
Old 06-10-2007, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Remember that Monaco was not at all hullabaloo with the prospect of their Prince marrying an actress. In an interview (aired last week on Dutch TV, in a special on Princess Gracia) the late Prince Rainier himself stated he had to fight scepticism and even hostility in the principality and in his own palace.

Yet Princess Gracia is by many seen as a 'perfect Princess', at least, if we do not look furtherer than a superficial look at the sugarcake fondant.

And I fail to see why Charlene Wittstock would be lesser than the playboy Philippe Junot or the playboy Stefano Casiraghi, the bodyguard Daniël Ducruet, the circus artist Adans Lopes Peres, etc.
...and the Gottleib fellow (?) and then Tamara R and Nicole Coste and probably a few other nameless ones given by Albert. It actually goes to the point that there is no historic precedent being set (no dis-respect to Princess Grace). Nothing new at all there in Monaco. At the moment, CW is just like the others...

I guess people just want Prince Albert to act like the other Princes when it comes to this type of thing.

Like the others, even PR at least stated that he wanted to marry Grace.
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  #246  
Old 06-10-2007, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindsorIII
I'd like to hear from Europeans as well. I always thought Europe had a very high level education system and offered many opportunities for its athletes. The IOC headquarters are there in Europe and they have an entire system dedicated to Education of athletes.

I had no idea Ysbel that Europe actually discourages its young aspiring athletes from getting an education. That is shocking to me.
Well, in America they did mock John Kerry for knowing French, didn't they No, I don't think athletes are discouraged from getting an education, but being an athlete won't buy you a place in the university either, like it does in America. My experience is (I'm in Oxford and judge accordingly) that the level of education varies from sport to sport - footballers like Beckham are sometimes practically illiterate, while athletes in some other disciplines have Ph.D.s. There is a multitude of reasons why that is.

I follow the Monegasque RF with only a superficial interest; I love Grace Kelly the actress though. My impression of Charlene is that she is a rather unremarkable person. That is why it puzzles me that so many people claim so violently to hate her. Okay, she isn't the most elegant of women, but neither are many born royals. She has blabbered? So have some others. Prince Albert isn't serious about her? I don't think he is serious, full stop.

Actually, she is just an ordinary girl, who got (sort of) lucky and now enjoys herself. And maybe that's it: if she, in all her ordinariness, pulled it off, why can't I? Or you? Or anyone else in here? Green rarely becomes anyone...
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  #247  
Old 06-10-2007, 07:22 PM
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i like her very much. i just like to know who is dressing her? Which designers? Her style is more stephanie than caroline.
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  #248  
Old 06-10-2007, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lisamaria
I follow the Monegasque RF with only a superficial interest; I love Grace Kelly the actress though
I am the same way. I think that Grace may have been an aberration in modern Monaco history. For a good part of the 20th century, Monaco was best known as a gambling spot and a tax haven for rich socialites who didn't want to pay taxes any more.

Rainier wanted to change that perception when he married Grace and whatever went on in Grace's personal life, her public life was full of dignity and decorum. She also seemed to truly care for her husband and children.

But like I said I think Grace was unusual in the long history of Monaco and people may be wishing for a little of Grace back. Charlene doesn't live up to Grace's image but I don't know of many women who could. Grace came from another simpler time.

So I think that's an impossible wish to want Albert's mate to fill Grace's shoes, the culture of Monaco is what it is and I think the people there have tolerance for things that in the rest of the world would be not quite kosher.

Oddly enough, with competing at the Olympics for the South African team, I think Charlene is the most accomplished of Albert's girlfriends. However, success in sports doesn't always equate to success in education or success in public relations.
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  #249  
Old 06-10-2007, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
I am the same way. I think that Grace may have been an aberration in modern Monaco history. For a good part of the 20th century, Monaco was best known as a gambling spot and a tax haven for rich socialites who didn't want to pay taxes any more.

Rainier wanted to change that perception when he married Grace and whatever went on in Grace's personal life, her public life was full of dignity and decorum. She also seemed to truly care for her husband and children.

But like I said I think Grace was unusual in the long history of Monaco and people may be wishing for a little of Grace back. Charlene doesn't live up to Grace's image but I don't know of many women who could. Grace came from another simpler time.

So I think that's an impossible wish to want Albert's mate to fill Grace's shoes, the culture of Monaco is what it is and I think the people there have tolerance for things that in the rest of the world would be not quite kosher.

Oddly enough, with competing at the Olympics for the South African team, I think Charlene is the most accomplished of Albert's girlfriends. However, success in sports doesn't always equate to success in education or success in public relations.
His first swimmer girlfriend Mary Whate(sp) won 4 or 5 gold medals and is one of the most celebrated of American women swimmers. She is in the US swimming hall of fame as well. She went on to become a TV commentator in the sport. Also Alicia Warlick competed in the Olympics as well and then got a degree in economics from Stanford Univ. just two name two.
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  #250  
Old 06-10-2007, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hibou
His first swimmer girlfriend Mary Whate(sp) won 4 or 5 gold medals and is one of the most celebrated of American women swimmers. She is in the US swimming hall of fame as well. She went on to become a TV commentator in the sport. Also Alicia Warlick competed in the Olympics as well and then got a degree in economics from Stanford Univ. just two name two.
Well, I take that back, it looks like Albert does like Olympic athletes. However, both of the women you mentioned were Americans and as I said, the American sports culture puts more stress on athletes getting their degrees whereas I don't think the European or South African culture places that much importance on education for athletes.

It looks like the common theme for Albert though is that he doesn't care if they're educated but he does prefer competitive, athletic women.

That may not be so bad.
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  #251  
Old 06-11-2007, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel
Well, I take that back, it looks like Albert does like Olympic athletes. However, both of the women you mentioned were Americans and as I said, the American sports culture puts more stress on athletes getting their degrees whereas I don't think the European or South African culture places that much importance on education for athletes.

It looks like the common theme for Albert though is that he doesn't care if they're educated but he does prefer competitive, athletic women.

That may not be so bad.
Ysbel, very true, Prince Albert does swoon over those Olympic athletes, he has also dated the stunning Olympic Gold medalist Pasha for a few years. Pasha Grishuk, Prince Albert and other Pictures This is when Prince Rainier was alive and kept these things quieter, so the razzis couldn't do what they are doing now with CW.

I wonder exactly how many of the Olympians PA has actually dated. Going to the Olympics must be like a reunion of women he's dated. Charlene is the latest in that long list.

It is true that the women that Hibou mentions above and the many other athletes Prince Albert has dated over the years were much more accomplished than Charlene in both sports accomplishments and education. On the flip side, I'm sure he's also dated many others with a low education level like Charlene. At the end of the day its PA's decision.

I posted my POV on the subject, but Ysbel you are correct, if Prince Albert just wants an athlete and doesn't care to have an educated woman at his side for the moment, then Charlene fits the bill. Sometimes I believe PA just wants young, eye candy at his side, hence the Christmas package analogy.

If CW amuses him for the moment, fine, but I would like to see him chose something more when he choses a first lady for Monaco. JMO

Henri you are also correct, when you look at the long line of colorful others dated by the Grimaldi's (ie Circus trainers, etc), CW truely does fits right in.
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  #252  
Old 06-11-2007, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindsorIII
I posted my POV on the subject, but Ysbel you are correct, if Prince Albert just wants an athlete and doesn't care to have an educated woman at his side for the moment, then Charlene fits the bill. Sometimes I believe PA just wants young, eye candy at his side, hence the Christmas package analogy.

If CW amuses him for the moment, fine, but I would like to see him chose something more when he choses a first lady for Monaco. JMO
Actually, Windsor, my opinion of Albert went up when I learned that he did favor Olympic athletes because they have something the other pretty girls don't have - focus and discipline and they're used to setting ambitious goals and achieving them even if like Charlene they didn't achieve a level of academic excellence. That speaks well for their character. I don't think that Olympic athletes make great consorts though. They're rough around the edges because they're used to having to perform rather than make a pleasing appearance. They're like the worker bees rather than the star. However, a royal consort is a show person and has to be able to put together a pleasing appearance and by that I don't mean a physical appearance but a total presence that projects the best of the royal institution. Athletes have many good characteristics but they don't tend to have this one.

I think though that Albert is not really serious about finding a consort; if he were, he would have found one years ago. In the 80s, Prince Rainier was pushing him to find a nice girl to settle down with and if he hasn't done so by now, I don't think he will. But I don't think Albert wants eye candy either, because if he did, he wouldn't go for the Olympic athletes. There are a lot of beautiful women who don't have the discipline and focus that Olympic athletes have. When a person is that disciplined and focused for most of their lives, they become very sure of themselves and sometimes very stubborn so much so that a man who only wants eye candy may want someone more flexible for his woman than an Olympic athlete.

I see what you say about other girlfriends of Albert being more accomplished than Charlene, and you are right but if you compare these women to the rest of us, all of the Olymipic athletes, including Charlene, are so much more accomplished than the majority of women, that the difference between a Charlene Wittstock and a Mary Whate is like saying that Roman Abramovich is not as rich as Bill Gates. Well of course Abramovich is not as rich as Bill Gates but since they both have billions of dollars, they're both incredibly more wealthy than most of us ever dreamed of being.

Compared to the rest of us, even without an academic education, Charlene has been trained for several years at the highest level for her profession. The people that reach that top level is less than 1/10 of 1% of all the women who compete in sports. All of these Olympic athletes are in a pretty exalted group. Even if Charlene did not get a medal, just getting on the Olympic team is so much higher an accomplishment than most of us could ever dream of that we really can't compare our own modest accomplishments to getting on an Olympic team. To get on a Olympic team requires extensive training that produces athletes that are focused, disciplined, and used to hard work. Some athletes can be more disciplined and hard working than someone with the same level of accomplishment in academics and that focus and discipline doesn't just disappear because an athlete is not training any more.

I certainly couldn't get up every morning at 4am to swim 80 laps and then back in the afternoon to practice relay with my team but these athletes do this four seasons long year after year. When they are at the height of their training, they don't have a social life and they are not thinking of anything other than their sport. Olympic swimming is not a profession for a woman whose greatest goal is to be eye candy on the arms of some rich playboy. Its too much hard work and there are easier ways to find a rich man to pay your way. I also think this type of training produces women of stronger character than is required for women who want someone else to pay their way. So asI said, my opinion of Albert went up a bit when I realized that he was interested in Olympic athletes. I think it speaks well of his character but I still don't think he's in the mood to find a consort.
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  #253  
Old 06-11-2007, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindsorIII
Henri you are also correct, when you look at the long line of colorful others dated by the Grimaldi's (ie Circus trainers, etc), CW truely does fits right in.
Not only dating... even marrying or being the fathers of....
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  #254  
Old 06-11-2007, 10:02 AM
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Ysbel, I do agree that Olympic athletes can be very good examples of great character, but I wouldn't worship them as you do above, remember just as there are many with good character and determination there are just as many examples of steriod use, cheating and that attitude to do anything and everything, even if immoral or unethical just to to win the prize.

I am not saying Charlene is in this category, I just don't generalize a group like that. Its dangerous.

Thus far I have seen nothing that shows Charlene is in serious training other than her proclaimations that she is "training for Beijing, training 8 hours a day, doesn't drink, etc" You say above that a serious athlete has no social life and can think of nothing but training. I agree with you which is why I am skeptical of Charlene's self proclaimed training stories. We all see clearly photos every day of the colorful social life of Charlene's party days in Monaco while proclaiming to be in serious training, and futher is accepting cars and sponorships for that "so called" serious training. IMO it is untruthful. Thus not representative at all of the Olympic standards. In fact it makes a mockery of the others in serious training now. I don't buy the injury thing either watching her party day after day, night after night. No serious athlete would do that.

I understand she had to drop out of school for her Olympic training when she was 16 or 17. I don't agrue that many athletes put their academics and careers on hold for a few years. But now she is nearly 30 years old and still has not even a high school diploma. Are you saying that just because she went to the Olympics nearly a decade ago, she will never have to do anything else to advance herself for the rest of her life?

This is not true of Olympians at all or there attitudes. Go to the Olympic websites and see how most of them, when their olympic careers are over, go on to get educational degrees, get great jobs and transfer that same dedication and ambition to create an equally successful career life. Charlene, not having a job or fulfilling any education for 7 years after her olympic games puts her in the minority of Olympic athletes and their post careers.

IMO Charlene has done nothing with her life since her Olympic swimming days in Sydney. All swimming stats show she's competed in about 5-6 swim events in the past 7 years. This is not serious training. She is not serious about anything.

If, at the moment, she was doing all you describe above then I would have to agree with you, but it is clear by all the photos we've seen that she is not and is just saying she is in training and using the Olympic thing to her advantage because she knows many people worship Olympic athletes as you do, thus you will worship her. Very smart PR I have to say on her part. Look at the people that fall for it, including you.

I will not take away anything from her accomplishment of making the Olympic team back in 2000. I do admire that, regardless of how she performed there.

My issue is now, present day, seven years later.

IMO, she's a former swimmer, who's career ended years ago. Without reason she is still putting off getting any jobs or pursuing an education or facing the real world so she can live off her Olympic thing until she can't anymore. Now she has found a rich prince to latch onto and hopes she never will have to get a job or go back to school.

JMO
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  #255  
Old 06-11-2007, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M.
Not only dating... even marrying or being the fathers of....
Yes Henri I forgot that part. Aye aye aye

Quote:
originally posted by Ysbel

I think though that Albert is not really serious about finding a consort; if he were, he would have found one years ago. In the 80s, Prince Rainier was pushing him to find a nice girl to settle down with and if he hasn't done so by now, I don't think he will.
Very true, Very true. I agree. PA has no intentions of getting married to CW.
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  #256  
Old 06-11-2007, 10:22 AM
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Was Charlene's fashion thread deleted? I can't seem to find it and I wanted to find out what she was wearing exactly at the closing ceremonies but this is not the thread to discuss it on. Thanks
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  #257  
Old 06-11-2007, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindsorIII
Ysbel, I do agree that Olympic athletes can be very good examples of great character, but I wouldn't worship them as you do above, remember just as there are many with good character and determination there are just as many examples of steriod use, cheating and that attitude to do anything and everything, even if immoral or unethical just to to win the prize.
JMO
You are correct windsor and it was not my intention to idolize athletes - just to show a different, more realistic side of them. I also did not want to give the impression that I believe Charlene is still in training. If she were still in serious training, she would not have time for Albert. I only mentioned the training and her past in Olympics because I believe it does requires some sort of character and discipline to achieve something like that even at the lowest level.

You bring up a good point about cheating and steroids but I believe its impossible for someone with no work ethic to cheat or steroid his way into an Olympic team with absolutely no effort or discipline. What I believe is that the character of a person just doesn't disappear when they stop competing in sports. So in other words the character traits that Charlene possessed to help her reach the Olympics I think should be still with her now.

As far as Charlene's life today, I think you bring up many good points. There are volumes written on what happens to athletes once they're out of sports. Some do really well, the others do not. Many athletes come from a structured environment where they are told what to do at each hour of the day then when their career is over the lack of structure can be overwhelming. I think Albert's life is rather regulated despite his playboy lifestyle so Charlene may perhaps like the structure and organization of Albert's lifestyle as a sovereign rather than the glamour of marrying a prince.

My only concern for someone like Charlene marrying Albert would be if she like Camilla was really bored with the public appearances, etc. but Camilla seems to have sucked it up and done what it takes to keep her man and Camilla has done it very well so if Charlene loved Albert it is possible she would do the same.

The other concern I have is her ability to have children. Although you are quite correct not to paint Charlene as a steroid user because we cannot know the facts, its a fact that steroid use is prevalent among swimmers and steroid use has shown to have a detrimental effect on a woman's ability to bear children.
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  #258  
Old 06-11-2007, 10:35 AM
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My impression of Charlene is that she is a rather unremarkable person. That is why it puzzles me that so many people claim so violently to hate her. Okay, she isn't the most elegant of women, but neither are many born royals.
Because an average woman like Charlene is (she isn't that much educated, she's not fantastically beautiful, her awkwardness is evident ), upsets the "audience"; it's just like Paris Hilton, who's famous, without doing anything: she's no actress, singer, model...

Charlene is just a plain woman appearing by Prince Albert's side, which certain people can't stand at all: "Why she? What does she have, I do not have?" (generally speaking, of course. it makes no difference to me )
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  #259  
Old 06-11-2007, 10:37 AM
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This is not true of Olympians at all or there attitudes. Go to the Olympic websites and see how most of them, when their olympic careers are over, go on to get educational degrees, get great jobs and transfer that same dedication and ambition to create an equally successful career life. Charlene, not having a job or fulfilling any education for 7 years after her olympic games puts her in the minority of Olympic athletes and their post careers.
Are you talking about American athletes or non-American athletes windsor?
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  #260  
Old 06-11-2007, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tosca
it's just like Paris Hilton, who's famous, without doing anything: she's no actress, singer, model...
Actually, I think Paris Hilton has tried all of those; she is neither remarkably bad nor remarkably good at them

Quote:
Charlene is just a plain woman appearing by Prince Albert's side, which certain people can't stand at all: "Why she? What does she have, I do not have?" (generally speaking, of course. it makes no difference to me )
Which sort of was my point. The ordinary girls seem always have it the hardest when it comes to dating famous men - guess it is only natural. Nobody hates the models in Vogue because they are beautiful. Many hate the girls next door for being pretty. Nobody envies Bill Gates for his money. Many would hate to see their neighbour to win in lottery.

But here is a question: has Prince Albert earned a more remarkable woman? Could he ever get one? With his track record, he just might be the one settling.
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"Contrariwise", said Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be, but as it isn't, it 'aint. That's logic."
From "Through the Looking Glass" by Lewis Carroll
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