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  #581  
Old 10-09-2014, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
Monaco has male-preference cognatic primogeniture, meaning that if Albert had died without heirs, the throne would have gone to Caroline (presuming she was still alive at the time of Albert's death) – hence her current title of Hereditary Princess. However, had Albert and Caroline had a younger brother – let's say Stephanie was a man – he would have preceded Caroline and been his brother's heir.

IIRC, the changed made in 2002 only concerned the direct descendants of the monarch thing. Princess Antoinette was in line of succession to the throne as well, so I women have been able to inherit – albeit being preceded by their brothers – for quite some time.
I presume Hereditary Princess disappears from Caroline's title at the birth of the first viable child?
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Did Prince Rainier change something about the line of succession?


LaRae


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Originally Posted by queenofcelts View Post
Can someone please make clear for me the law of inheritance and if albert and charlene would not have children the throne goes to prs carolina? And this law about that monaco goes to france if there are no heirs of male sex still exists?I am grateful in advance.


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Originally Posted by FanofMonaco View Post
Monaco will no longer go to France if there is no heir. It will become a democracy.

Under the old succession laws, Monaco operated under male-preference primogeniture, but limited the descendants of the current sovereign (provided they were either legitimate or adopted). If the sovereign had no descendants then Monaco would become a protectorate of France.

In 2002 Prince Rainier changed the succession rules to address the fact that Albert had no legitimate children, and to prevent someone from adopting a non-blood relation who could then inherit. The rules now continue to adhere to male-preference primogeniture - sons inherit over daughters - but the succession has been altered so that the descendants of the sovereign, the sovereign's siblings, and the descendants of the sovereign's siblings are in the succession. Thus, if Albert were to die without legitimate children Caroline would inherit. However, if Albert weren't be succeeded by his child then Caroline and Stephanie and their descendants are removed from the succession.

The succession was also changed so that adopted children can no longer inherit, but children who have been legitimatized (but we're born out of wedlock) can inherit. The reason why adopted children could inherit was because Rainier's grandfather, Louis II, had no legitimate children and thus adopted his illegitimate daughter, Rainier's mother, so she could inherit. Rainier's changes to the succession adhered to this idea of illegitimate children having the opportunity to inherit, while preventing the succession from leaving the House of Grimaldi.

If there no one in the succession - the sovereign dies without legitimate descendants, siblings, or siblings' legitimate descendants, then a regency is formed and the Crown Council elects a new monarch from the House of Grimaldi, looking at more distant descendants.
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  #583  
Old 10-09-2014, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter View Post
I presume Hereditary Princess disappears from Caroline's title at the birth of the first viable child?
Indeed. When the children are born, the eldest if it's same-sex twins or the boy if it's opposite-sex twins will assume the title of Hereditary Prince/ss and Caroline's Monegasque style will return to Princess Caroline of Monaco.
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  #584  
Old 10-10-2014, 01:24 AM
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The fact that P Albert has made no attempt to fine tune the rules of succession leads me to believe that at least one of the twins is a boy, and will thus be the next Sovereign Prince. Or alternatively, he's okay with the idea that his heir will be a girl and the next Sovereign Princess, if the twins are both girls...I guess this is one riddle we won't be able to solve until the day they are delivered!

But I am excited at the idea that, according to tradition, 101 gunshots will be fired if a boy is born and 21(!) when it's a girl. I can just see all the Monagasques stopping what they're doing and counting...it will prove to be a noisy day in Monaco, seeing that it's twins, if they choose to uphold this tradition.


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  #585  
Old 10-10-2014, 05:23 AM
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The announce of the palace in english on Monaco life site

Monaco Life
  #586  
Old 10-10-2014, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I was just having a laugh at the changed title of this thread: Charlene and Albert expect twins. When looking at Alberts belly/Charlenes belly in some pictures one could think that Albert & Charlene are expecting one baby each.

BYe Bine

Yesterday at dinner I discussed a potential Caesarian of Charlene with a fried, who is gynaecologist.... what will happen, if she Need a Cesarean, and the doctor has to decide about "who´s heir, who´s spare" .....
he laughted and said: NO. In EVERY cesarean there is one Baby clearly on top, so there is no decision, "shall I take the right or the left Baby"....
you simply take the EXPLICIT upper one!

BYe Bine
  #587  
Old 10-10-2014, 03:54 PM
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This is wonderful news! Now Prince Vincent and Princess Josephine of Denmark are not alone as they will soon have Monegasque counterparts. And of course, Sasha and Raphael will most probably not be alone in their play that much as they will have a few little friends now (if Tatiana's pregnancy rumours turn out to be true, they will have three playmates).

I hadn't thought it would be twins so this came as a surprise for me. I thought this as Charlene had been looking rather small for someone who is expecting twins, and as another member had pointed out, is still travelling. I've heard that mothers who are expecting twins often stop travelling earlier than mothers who are expecting just one child.

I read in an English newspaper (I think The Independent), that Charlene plans to leave Albert ASAP after she has given birth to the twins. I took this with a grain of salt and didn't believe it for a second.
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  #588  
Old 10-10-2014, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
Indeed. When the children are born, the eldest if it's same-sex twins or the boy if it's opposite-sex twins will assume the title of Hereditary Prince/ss and Caroline's Monegasque style will return to Princess Caroline of Monaco.
Hadn't thought of that and also if there's a male heir doesn't he become the Marquis of Baux?

Marquis of Baux - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #589  
Old 10-10-2014, 06:49 PM
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I doubt she would leave him now. PA would probably get custody since the babies will be heirs.
  #590  
Old 10-10-2014, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C4A View Post
But I am excited at the idea that, according to tradition, 101 gunshots will be fired if a boy is born and 21(!) when it's a girl. I can just see all the Monagasques stopping what they're doing and counting...it will prove to be a noisy day in Monaco, seeing that it's twins, if they choose to uphold this tradition.


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There's the same tradition in Belgium, I remember my grandmother telling me she was learning to count and knew by the gunshots king Baudouin was a boy
But now, we know it before the gunshots, so it won't be a surprise, people will know how many there will be. (But I agree with your view, if Albert doesn't change the succession law, it makes me believe there are two little boys in there )
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  #591  
Old 10-10-2014, 07:51 PM
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I think only the very uninformed and spiteful would believe that P Charlene would leave Monaco after the babies' birth! She has said many times how much she wanted to be a mother. If she did leave, she would have to go without her children, since they have to be raised in Monaco. Besides, they are clearly very happy as a couple and both have indicated how much they were looking forward to becoming parents.

Really, it's time that this very irresponsible press speculation stop. It must be very hurtful for the couple...


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  #592  
Old 10-10-2014, 08:02 PM
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Yes, the people know that the baby is born with the media before the gunshots. they do not count but it is a tradition of many royal country as Belgium, Sweden and Monaco.
I also think that Albert does not change the male primogeniture because there are two boys or a boy and a girl.
I think not very fair FandofMonaco and Princesshereditary to repeat what the english tabloid say about Albert and Charlene relation, the princely couple sued Dayli Mail because this tabloid wrotte there was an agreement Between Albert and Charlene , Charlene would leave Monaco once she gave an heir, the princely couple couple wins and the director of this tabloid apollogized but had to pay a lot of money and it begins agai with other tabloids.
Charlene said in three interviews in three papers( Vanity fair italia, Hola,and Monaco Matin), that she loves her husband and she trusts in the love of her couple. It is not enough?
To day, it is Bunte and a spanish tabloid which writte that there is trouble between Charlotte and Gas El Maleh. The tabloids are always writting about the family of Monaco, when It is not Albert and Charlene , it is Charlotte and Gad .

A funny article

How Monaco's Prince Albert Found Out He Was Having Twins : People.com
  #593  
Old 10-11-2014, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by melina premiere View Post
I think not very fair FandofMonaco and Princesshereditary to repeat what the english tabloid say about Albert and Charlene relation, the princely couple sued Dayli Mail because this tabloid wrotte there was an agreement Between Albert and Charlene , Charlene would leave Monaco once she gave an heir, the princely couple couple wins and the director of this tabloid apollogized but had to pay a lot of money and it begins agai with other tabloids.
I just mentioned it as I thought it would be interesting to hear other thoughts on it. I debated a little in my head about whether I should post it or not, as I know some members here feel strongly about negative press regarding Charlene.

It's not as if I was agreeing with the rumours, as I think it's just the press over exaggerating. I did say that I didn't believe the rumours for a second and that I also took them with a grain of salt. Therefore, I think it's fair for me to have posted what I did because as I've said before, I wasn't going along with the rumours, but disagreeing with them instead. Don't get me wrong here as I like Charlene.
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  #594  
Old 10-11-2014, 02:21 PM
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Sweet i'm sure sports is going to play a big part in the lifes of those kids
  #595  
Old 10-11-2014, 02:26 PM
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Thanks for posting, melina. Nice article. He seems as excited as she is. Happy that she is healthy. Just wonder how she's able to keep the gender of the babies from him!


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  #596  
Old 10-11-2014, 03:32 PM
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Why did a plastic surgeon speak up? And I think Albert should have been with her if they thought she was pegnant.. At least for the first scan...

Anyway I think the both know the sex of the babies...
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  #597  
Old 10-11-2014, 03:53 PM
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Mr Tuck is the friend of the couple and one of the founder of the princess Grace foundation.

My niece and her husband did not want to know the gender of all their chidren. They knew when they were born.

All the husband are not here for the first scan when they are too busy and I think that Albert had this day a meeting he could not miss.His agenda is filled for one year.
  #598  
Old 10-11-2014, 03:56 PM
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Yes but how can it be a "routine scan"? If it was a routine scan it means that she alredy knew she was pregnant... Anyway it's a gossip site...
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  #599  
Old 10-11-2014, 04:11 PM
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Does it matter for you? yes it is a gossip but it is a nice article.
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Old 10-11-2014, 04:19 PM
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I got the impression that some things they mentioned are not right
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