Prince Albert's Older Children Part 1: 2009 - 2023

[Tatiana Maria]

I just found an english version of the Monaco Constitution, amended in 2002. Nowhere it is mentioned that the family members have to ask for permission to marry, and if not would lose their place in the line of succession. I think if that was the case it should be written down in the Constitution.
The wikipedia line of succession shows what most of us believe is the right order , unless we cannot trust wikipedia.
What is "The House Law" of Monaco, I just don't understand the difference between House Law and the Constitution. Is this "House Law" published somewhere ?
Is there such a law with other Royals (I know it is in GB), that would be interesting to know.

https://en.gouv.mc/Gouvernement-et-Institutions/Les-Institutions/La-Constitution-de-la-Principaute
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_Monegasque_throne

I have posted the link to the first publication of the 2015 house law five times in this thread over the last two weeks, including in a reply just four posts up and in my prior reply to you here.

Here is the link again.

https://journaldemonaco.gouv.mc/Jou...2015-portant-statuts-de-la-Famille-Souveraine

And here is the text of Article 24, from the link:

Sans préjudice des dispositions de l’article 21, le mariage d’un membre de la Famille Souveraine contracté sans l’autorisation du Prince Régnant emporte exclusion de l’ordre successoral, tant pour celui qui a contracté ce mariage que pour ses descendants.

Néanmoins, en cas de dissolution du mariage et en l’absence d’enfant issu de ce dernier, l’héritier qui l’a contracté recouvre sa place dans l’ordre successoral si aucune succession n’est intervenue à la date où la dissolution est devenue définitive.

L’autorisation prescrite en vertu du premier alinéa est délivrée par Décision Souveraine.
​

I am not sure I understand the rest of your post - are you suggesting that the house law is somehow invalid but Wikipedia is legally binding?

 

[sophie25]

If Albert said his nephews didn't ask his permission to marry it depends on the context as to whether that was in any way meaningful. He might have said they didn't ask because they didn't need to. Pierre at least must have had his approval as his civil wedding took place in the throne room. I also agree that Nicole never criticises Albert, it's always Charlene she takes aim at. Oh and Alexandre IS illegitimate as his parents were not married to each other, it's not a nice word but that is what it means. He also said in the P de V that Albert didn't ask for a DNA test regarding him but I thought he did.

 

[kalnel]

I am not sure I understand the rest of your post - are you suggesting that the house law is somehow invalid but Wikipedia is legally binding?

That wins the Internet today!

It is also worth noting that Article 11 also rebuts the idea that Charlene could appoint a "chancellor" to help her exercise power.

(Interestingly, Article 9 notes that regency can be exercised only by those with Monegasque nationality, while Article 11 lists the people who would comprise a regency council. At least one of the current officeholders on that list, the Minister of State Pierre Dartout, is French. I wonder how they'd reconcile that.)

Getting back to Alexandre, reading the House Rules again may also shed some light on a section of the Point de Vue interview where he took pains to explain that he uses the name "Grimaldi" and always has -- not his mother's name, not a combined name, just Grimaldi.

Article 1 of the House Rules stipulates that the succession is "direct and legitimate descendants of the Reigning Prince." Alexandre lays out how he is not illegitimate (so to speak), perhaps leaving the door open to legitimacy.

Article 2 notes that those in the succession are members of the Grimaldi dynasty and the reigning prince bears that name. Further, any devolution of the name Grimaldi may be settled by Sovereign Decision.

Hmm...is Alexandre suggesting that by using the name Grimaldi he is in the dynasty and Albert approves (or has made that "sovereign decision?")

I'm guessing Alexandre's references are not accidental.

 

[hereditarytitles]

I have posted the link to the first publication of the 2015 house law five times in this thread over the last two weeks, including in a reply just four posts up and in my prior reply to you here.

Here is the link again.

https://journaldemonaco.gouv.mc/Jou...2015-portant-statuts-de-la-Famille-Souveraine

And here is the text of Article 24, from the link:

Sans préjudice des dispositions de l’article 21, le mariage d’un membre de la Famille Souveraine contracté sans l’autorisation du Prince Régnant emporte exclusion de l’ordre successoral, tant pour celui qui a contracté ce mariage que pour ses descendants.

Néanmoins, en cas de dissolution du mariage et en l’absence d’enfant issu de ce dernier, l’héritier qui l’a contracté recouvre sa place dans l’ordre successoral si aucune succession n’est intervenue à la date où la dissolution est devenue définitive.

L’autorisation prescrite en vertu du premier alinéa est délivrée par Décision Souveraine.
​

I am not sure I understand the rest of your post - are you suggesting that the house law is somehow invalid but Wikipedia is legally binding?

Don't misunderstand me. It has become very confusing to me and I just tried to sort it out for myself. That's all.
The house law, the constituion, wikipedia all all sources we find online. If all of that is the truth, I hope so, but am not sure.
And in the end, it is not really important. We are speculating about what Albert could do or not do, why Nicole is all of a sudden so present and IMO is damaging a lot and harming Albert's family.

We will see what will happen in the future, and I hope very much that Albert will manage his family affairs without hurting Charlene and his children.

 

[kalnel]

If Albert said his nephews didn't ask his permission to marry it depends on the context as to whether that was in any way meaningful. He might have said they didn't ask because they didn't need to. Pierre at least must have had his approval as his civil wedding took place in the throne room. I also agree that Nicole never criticises Albert, it's always Charlene she takes aim at. Oh and Alexandre IS illegitimate as his parents were not married to each other, it's not a nice word but that is what it means. He also said in the P de V that Albert didn't ask for a DNA test regarding him but I thought he did.

As a matter of fact, as Alexandre was born in France, he is NOT illegitimate. France does not distinguish between "legitimate" and "illegitimate" births. Having equal inheritance -- despite family traditions or obligations -- is a civil right.

Here's a link to a case where the European Court of Human Rights validated that law. It contains multiple links and references you can follow to learn more.

While Monaco is not France, I wonder if Alexandre could make a case for his being the heir under this law. It's hard to imagine that he wouldn't win if he took the matter to the international court.

Also: Note that Article 2 of the House Rules says only that the heir must be legitimate and direct from the reigning prince. In France, Alexandre meets that criteria.

 

[sophie25]

As a matter of fact, as Alexandre was born in France, he is NOT illegitimate. France does not distinguish between "legitimate" and "illegitimate" births. Having equal inheritance -- despite family traditions or obligations -- is a civil right.

Here's a link to a case where the European Court of Human Rights validated that law. It contains multiple links and references you can follow to learn more.

While Monaco is not France, I wonder if Alexandre could make a case for his being the heir under this law. It's hard to imagine that he wouldn't win if he took the matter to the international court.

Also: Note that Article 2 of the House Rules says only that the heir must be legitimate and direct from the reigning prince. In France, Alexandre meets that criteria.

Monaco is an independent country from France.

 

[kalnel]

Monaco is an independent country from France.

The Monaco house rules say the heir must be legitimate, which he is. It says nothing about the heir having to have been born "legitimate in Monaco."

 

[Somebody]

As a matter of fact, as Alexandre was born in France, he is NOT illegitimate. France does not distinguish between "legitimate" and "illegitimate" births. Having equal inheritance -- despite family traditions or obligations -- is a civil right.

How can the French law imply anything about someone being legitimate or not if they don't make a distinction between the legitimate and illegitimate?

 

[kalnel]

How can the French law imply anything about someone being legitimate or not if they don't make a distinction between the legitimate and illegitimate?

If you read the law and the commentary about it, you'll see that everyone is "legitimate." And, everyone is entitled to the same inheritances as children born of married couples.

 

[sophie25]

If you read the law and the commentary about it, you'll see that everyone is "legitimate." And, everyone is entitled to the same inheritances as children born of married couples.

That's French law, it doesn't work the same everywhere, other countries do have a distinction between legitimate and illegitimate children.

 

[kalnel]

That's French law, it doesn't work the same everywhere, other countries do have a distinction between legitimate and illegitimate children.

He was born the legitimate son of Albert. That is a fact under law and that does meet the criteria spelled out in the Monaco House Rules.

 

[sophie25]

He was born the legitimate son of Albert. That is a fact under law and that does meet the criteria spelled out in the Monaco House Rules.

In Monegasque law he is illegitimate.

 

[SLV]

If in Monaco, like in France there is no legal difference between legitimate and illegitimate, then I would think that it would mean he has the right to the same inheritance as J&G. It does not mean he is legitimate in the eyes of the Monacon Royal House rules when it concerns succesion rights.
Alexander (and perhaps mostly his mother) may be trying to put themselves into a position for equal share in money.

BTW, wasn't there a female illegitimate daughter of a Monacon ruler legitimised as his heir, as he had no other children, somewhere late 19th, early 20th century?
So, in theory Alexander could be legitimised if Albert chose to do so. Question is, why would he when he has two legitimate heirs already.

 

[Granada]

Kalnel, respectively disagree.

Alexandre Grimaldi is Prince Albert's loved son. But Prince Jacques is Prince Albert's son AND heir. No semantics or sour grapes are going to change that fact. The key is "born in wedlock".

It has been that way for Centuries in Royal and Aristocrat Families. Same as the eldest son inheriting all, while the younger brothers in some Aristocrat Families *sometimes* just got a pittance. And I won't even touch the situation for daughters in some family situations.

I would certainly hope that Alexandre is accepting of his good fortune to have a loving relationship with a father who is a billionaire, and as you *possibly* theorize..... certainly NOT pursue any 'Princely' claims. In International Courts. Man, what a can of worms that would be.


To what end ? Blow up Family relationships, and what would the People of Monaco think ? I can't imagine they would be at all happy OR at all complacent.

Life isn't always fair or just ....is it ? But that is life, and fate.

 

[sophie25]

If in Monaco, like in France there is no legal difference between legitimate and illegitimate, then I would think that it would mean he has the right to the same inheritance as J&G. It does not mean he is legitimate in the eyes of the Monacon Royal House rules when it concerns succesion rights.
Alexander (and perhaps mostly his mother) may be trying to put themselves into a position for equal share in money.

BTW, wasn't there a female illegitimate daughter of a Monacon ruler legitimised as his heir, as he had no other children, somewhere late 19th, early 20th century?
So, in theory Alexander could be legitimised if Albert chose to do so. Question is, why would he when he has two legitimate heirs already.

On recent form I'd say Alexandre (with his mother firmly at his back) is trying to put himself in a position that goes far beyond financial ambition. The Princess Delphine case in Belgium has probably put ideas into that Coste woman's head.

 

[kalnel]

In Monegasque law he is illegitimate.

Oh? Can you provide me with the citation for that fact?

 

[Somebody]

If you read the law and the commentary about it, you'll see that everyone is "legitimate." And, everyone is entitled to the same inheritances as children born of married couples.

My comment was based on your apparently inaccurate description of the law. I didn't intend to study it as you made the case, not me.

As was already clear, Monaco does make a distinction between legitimate and illegitimate children. Children born outside of marriage need to be legitimated to be treated equally to children born in marriage. See this explanation about Monagasque (general) succession laws.

Whether a different country has different rules is irrelevant for their succession laws. For example, second and third spouses from someone who married in a country that allows polygamy aren't automatically recognized as such when they move to a different country that doesn't allow polygamy. In those cases, normally only the first wife has spousal rights.

 

[kalnel]

Kalnel, respectively disagree.

Alexandre Grimaldi is Prince Albert's loved son. But Prince Jacques is Prince Albert's son AND heir. No semantics or sour grapes are going to change that fact. The key is "born in wedlock".

It has been that way for Centuries in Royal and Aristocrat Families. Same as the eldest son inheriting all, while the younger brothers in some Aristocrat Families *sometimes* just got a pittance. And I won't even touch the situation for daughters in some family situations.

I would certainly hope that Alexandre is accepting of his good fortune to have a loving relationship with a father who is a billionaire, and as you *possibly* theorize, NOT pursue any claims.

To what end ? Blow up Family relationships, and what would the People of Monaco think ? I can't imagine they would be at all happy OR at all complacent.

Life isn't always fair or just ....is it ? But that is life, and fate.

"Born out of wedlock" may be important to you, but it is not stated as a criterion in the Monaco House Rules.

What we DO know and IS documented:
1. Alexandre is promoting the fact that he is not illegitimate. (PDV)
2. In France, where he was born, that is the law. (ECHR case)
3. Monaco's House Rules do not require wedlock or a specific place of birth for legitimacy. (House Rules)
4. The ruling prince determines who uses the name Grimaldi, which is a mark of being in the dynasty. (House Rules)
5. Alexandre pointed out that he has always carried that name and that name alone. (PDV)
6. Alexandre is interested in working with his father. (PDV)
7. Alexandre wants to uphold the dignity of being the prince's son. (PDV)
8. Jazmin refers to Alexandre as a "prince." (IG and media)
9. Albert attended Alexandre's birthday party where his son had a cake with the Monaco crest on it. (IG and media photos)
10. Albert is 65 years old with a troubled wife and very young children. (Interview with Albert)
11. At least four of Albert's closest advisors are embroiled in a far-reaching, disruptive scandal. (Multiple media reports)

Do you really not see a pattern in all this? I can imagine it could be advantageous to quite a few people to push Alexandre forward right now. Follow the breadcrumbs...

As was already clear, Monaco does make a distinction between legitimate and illegitimate children. Children born outside of marriage need to be legitimated to be treated equally to children born in marriage. See this explanation about Monagasque (general) succession laws.

Whether a different country has different rules is irrelevant for their succession laws. For example, second and third spouses from someone who married in a country that allows polygamy aren't automatically recognized as such when they move to a different country that doesn't allow polygamy. In those cases, normally only the first wife has spousal rights.

The description you linked to suggests that Albert has legitimized Alexandre under Monagasque law. It says, "Under Monaco law, recognition is a legal way to establish filiation. Natural filiation is established either by voluntary recognition of the child effected by formal deed executed before a notary or by court decision following an action to establish paternity or maternity."

Albert did publicly recognize Alexandre, so he was "filiated." Although we haven't seen the documents, the fact that he acknowledged Alexandre as his son and referred to providing for him suggests that legal recognition happened.

My comment was based on your apparently inaccurate description of the law. I didn't intend to study it as you made the case, not me.

I have quoted everything accurately. If you believe otherwise, show your sources.

 

[sophie25]

"Born out of wedlock" may be important to you, but it is not stated as a criterion in the Monaco House Rules.

What we DO know and IS documented:
1. Alexandre is promoting the fact that he is not illegitimate. (PDV)
2. In France, where he was born, that is the law. (ECHR case)
3. Monaco's House Rules do not require wedlock or a specific place of birth for legitimacy. (House Rules)
4. The ruling prince determines who uses the name Grimaldi, which is a mark of being in the dynasty. (House Rules)
5. Alexandre pointed out that he has always carried that name and that name alone. (PDV)
6. Alexandre is interested in working with his father. (PDV)
7. Alexandre wants to uphold the dignity of being the prince's son. (PDV)
8. Jazmin refers to Alexandre as a "prince." (IG and media)
9. Albert attended Alexandre's birthday party where his son had a cake with the Monaco crest on it. (IG and media photos)
10. Albert is 65 years old with a troubled wife and very young children. (Interview with Albert)
11. At least four of Albert's closest advisors are embroiled in a far-reaching, disruptive scandal. (Multiple media reports)

Do you really not see a pattern in all this? I can imagine it could be advantageous to quite a few people to push Alexandre forward right now. Follow the breadcrumbs...

Jazmin is also called Grimaldi and is older than her brother so you might as well say that she could claim to be next in line. Thankfully all of this speculation will end in a few years time when the twins turn 18 and officially become adults. 9 years may seem a lot but time flys by and when that day comes we will hopefully see the back of the Nicole Costes of this World and their pretender offspring.

 

[HenRach Dominion]

I may have misinterpreted the comment (I don't read French, so I didn't read the P of V article). "Illegitimate", of course, has a legal definition, but is that what Alexandre was referring to? I thought it was in reference to how his parents relationship was acceptable socially, not legally, i.e. "My parents were single and were dating/had a friendship with benefits relationship when I was born so there was nothing unbecoming of my birth that the word 'illegitimate' implies" rather than "I am as valid a successor to the Monégasque as my younger siblings."

 

[Somebody]

I have quoted everything accurately. If you believe otherwise, show your sources.

You first stated:
"As a matter of fact, as Alexandre was born in France, he is NOT illegitimate. France does not distinguish between "legitimate" and "illegitimate" births. Having equal inheritance -- despite family traditions or obligations -- is a civil right."

I made a logical inference about your statement above. You then contradicted that, so apparently, your original statement wasn't as accurate as you thought it was. If the law does not DISTINGUISH between it, then there is no point in discussing illegitimate and legitimate from a French perspective; as apparently that distinction doesn't exist. Let me give a different example (of course, no comparison is perfect but it might help): if a language does not distinguish between an apple and a pear, you cannot discuss the difference between an apple and a pear from the perspective of that language. You need a different language that does make the distinction to be able to make any statements on the difference between the two.

The description you linked to suggests that Albert has legitimized Alexandre under Monagasque law. It says, "Under Monaco law, recognition is a legal way to establish filiation. Natural filiation is established either by voluntary recognition of the child effected by formal deed executed before a notary or by court decision following an action to establish paternity or maternity."

Albert did publicly recognize Alexandre, so he was "filiated." Although we haven't seen the documents, the fact that he acknowledged Alexandre as his son and referred to providing for him suggests that legal recognition happened.

True, his rights are inheritance rights are equal to those of legitimate children. I used this reference to show that in Monaco a distinction was made between legitimate and illegitimate (as that seemed to be questioned).

Nonetheless, your quote above leaves out the distinction between legitimating a child (which happens when parents marry) versus recognizing a child, both lead to the same inheritance rights/treatment (at least in terms of property) but are explicitly not the same thing (otherwise there was no point in making the distinction between legitimizing and recognizing).

Adopted and illegitimate children
In relation to the disposition of an individual’s estate, are adopted or illegitimate children treated the same as natural legitimate children and, if not, how may they inherit?

Filiation only gives rise to succession rights if it is legally established.

Adopted children are treated as legitimate children of the adopting parents.

Children born outside marriage are treated, for all legal purposes, the same as legitimate children if they were legitimated by the marriage of their parents or recognised by their parents.

Under Monaco law, recognition is a legal way to establish filiation. Natural filiation is established either by voluntary recognition of the child effected by formal deed executed before a notary or by court decision following an action to establish paternity or maternity.

The legitimation confers on legitimated children the same rights and obligations as natural legitimate children.

The House Rules requires a child to be legitimate (as you quoted before - see post below), which Alexandre is NOT - as he was neither born in wedlock nor legitimized by his parents' subsequent marriage.

(...)
Getting back to Alexandre, reading the House Rules again may also shed some light on a section of the Point de Vue interview where he took pains to explain that he uses the name "Grimaldi" and always has -- not his mother's name, not a combined name, just Grimaldi.

Article 1 of the House Rules stipulates that the succession is "direct and legitimate descendants of the Reigning Prince." Alexandre lays out how he is not illegitimate (so to speak), perhaps leaving the door open to legitimacy.

Article 2 notes that those in the succession are members of the Grimaldi dynasty and the reigning prince bears that name. Further, any devolution of the name Grimaldi may be settled by Sovereign Decision.

Hmm...is Alexandre suggesting that by using the name Grimaldi he is in the dynasty and Albert approves (or has made that "sovereign decision?")

I'm guessing Alexandre's references are not accidental.

On the latter I think you are right, it is not accidental that he is bringing this up - but according to the law in Monaco he is not his father's legitimate (nor legitimized) son, he is his illegitimate but recognized son. I don't know what his intentions are but I don't see any movement on Albert's side to go along with this and replace Jacques as his heir - however much Alexandre's mother might want that.

 

[Granada]

Good luck with your supposition Kalnel.

I totally dispute your contention that *something* is up, and moves being made to strip Jacques ( and Gabriella) as Heir, and put Alexandre in his place. Why ?
Do you really believe this ? I find that absolutely ludicrous, just preposterous.

Yes, Albert is 65 but is in seemingly good health. The children are young, but this isn't the Middle Ages with a nefarious Uncle, Richard lll , seeking to eliminate his nephew King Edward V.....allegedly. Never to be seen again.

They, The Twins, *seem* to be beloved in Monaco and thanks to Grace Kelly, and the American connection, we here in the States are familiar with the Grimaldi Family.

I certainly hope that your contention on this matter is just pure speculation. What would be the up side for Albert to do this ?

Perhaps he is just seeking to make Alexandre feels a "true" part of The Family. Valued. A public and recognized Family member.

Born out of wedlock......C'mon in Dynastic situations.... IT still matters.

Maybe Albert didn't know about the Birthday Cake, and THAT Monaco Crest (????) that SMACKS of something his Mother would do. And present it 'fait accompli' at the Birthday Dinner. I doubt Albert even knew. Alexandre's OTHER two half brothers were there. Nicole is their Mom. As for Jazmin purposely calling him Prince, I can see that as very calculating. Ridiculous.

I truly can't imagine that Prince Albert would upend the "accepted" Succession Rights. Throw absolutely EVERYTHING into turmoil, confusion and yes anger.

Sorry, I can't believe that The Monaco People would accept this. One bit.

 

[camelot23ca]

I have issues to get the topic of this discussion.
As regards the two older children since their existence/filiation was made public it was clearly stated that they don't have rights to the Monaco throne. This is still valid. In the slight (very slight) probability that Pcs Albert changed his mind and decided to included them, I presume that with the appropriate legal actions he could do it. Furthermore, if it happens, I'm persuaded that he will proceed to legal and constitutional acts... and not to cakes with Monaco arms to inform his people.
Basically why he would do this? By fear of lack of adult Ruler in case something happens to him? And he will chose as a ruler a 27 years girl with unclear artistic interests? Or a 18 years old post High-scholar?
If he wants someone to rule tomorrow.. or in the near future, he needs someone prepared! And none of his older kids seem to be. Despite its small size Monaco's Prince is ruling. He is like a company's Manager. Prince Albert has been preparing for decades.

If the Monaco throne becomes temporary empty .. there are many family members to fill the gap until Prince Jacques becomes adult and prepared. Princess Caroline with her 40 years experience as first Lady. But also Andrea and mainly Pierre who lives in Monaco and runs business there. The only lack actually in Monaco is an acting first Lady, not a heir.

I agree that the chance of Albert’s eldest son somehow leap frogging over Jacques and Gabriella to become his heir is close to zero. Albert had plenty of time to marry Alexandre’s mother and make the boy his heir before he became involved with Charlene, if that had been what he wanted. Jacques and Gabriella are very obviously being presented as the next reigning Prince and high profile Princess, both with official roles to play, similar to Albert and Caroline.

Albert having two children with two different women prior to his marriage, along with then welcoming two more children with his wife, could lead to complicated dynamics in any family. The fact that the two younger children have official privileges the others don’t may not help. It’s Albert’s responsibility to act in the best interests of all of his children, at least as best he can knowing that things can never be totally equal or fair. Hopefully he’s had discussions with Alexandre about what realistic future options he has (which i imagine include anything the young man could possibly want, except becoming the future reigning Prince of Monaco).

 

[fandesacs2003]

This is an article from Le Monde, a very serious french Newspaper.
It is dated 2005, and talks about Prince Albert recognizing his baby boy.
Mr Lacoste who was the official speechman of Monaco stated clearly that the existence of this baby belongs to the private sphere and doesn't influence the Monaco succession line.

I presume that before making this official announcement they had tighten legally their speech.
Just a reminder, at this time Prince Albert was single and without heir.


https://www.lemonde.fr/europe/artic...t-alexandre-son-fils-naturel_670244_3214.html

 

[tommy100]

It is interesting that Alexandre is clearly trying to make a difference between him and Jazmin. This is true in a technical sense - Alexandre COULD enter the line of succession if his mother and Albert married. This isn't true for Jazmin as her mother was married at the time.

However, it is clear from Albert's comments and actions that this slight difference doesn't matter to him and he sees both his older children in the same way. His public statements about his older children have recognised them but always pointed out they are not in the line of succession but will be taken care of privately.

Nothing Albert has done, said or public statement released has suggested he intends to change the line of succession, place Alexandre in it (which would mean marrying his mother) or in any other way remove or skip past Jaques.

 

[CrownPrincessJava]

If Albert said his nephews didn't ask his permission to marry it depends on the context as to whether that was in any way meaningful. He might have said they didn't ask because they didn't need to. Pierre at least must have had his approval as his civil wedding took place in the throne room. I also agree that Nicole never criticises Albert, it's always Charlene she takes aim at. Oh and Alexandre IS illegitimate as his parents were not married to each other, it's not a nice word but that is what it means. He also said in the P de V that Albert didn't ask for a DNA test regarding him but I thought he did.

Agree. The context of the comment is what matters here. He may have given them automatic approval as he has known their partners for years. What he may have meant is that his niece and nephews did not need to explicitly ask him for approval and it was assumed since he and his family are incredibly close knit.

Explicit and official announcements are still at the discretion of the regent.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Regarding legitimacy and illegitimacy: Here is the link to the current Monegasque Civil Code (in French).

See Article 226 through Article 226-14 for the rules of legitimacy and legitimation.

https://legimonaco.mc/code/code-civil/

It is interesting that Alexandre is clearly trying to make a difference between him and Jazmin. This is true in a technical sense - Alexandre COULD enter the line of succession if his mother and Albert married. This isn't true for Jazmin as her mother was married at the time.

But why would it not be true for Jazmin? Neither the Civil Code, the House Law or the Constitution (all three documents have been linked on this page of this thread) make any distinction between children born from an extramarital affair and children born of two unmarried parents.

His public statements about his older children have recognised them but always pointed out they are not in the line of succession but will be taken care of privately.

I believe his spokesman later clarified that they are in the line of succession to his private property.

BTW, wasn't there a female illegitimate daughter of a Monacon ruler legitimised as his heir, as he had no other children, somewhere late 19th, early 20th century?

No, Prince Louis II's out-of-wedlock daughter Charlotte was given inheritance rights to the principality of Monaco as well as the princely family fortune, but she was never legitimated. Various laws and decrees made explicit that if her father ever had legitimate children, they would displace her as his heir.

From the 1911 princely decree:

ART. 3.

Dans le cas où Notre Fils bien-aimé le Prince Héréditaire viendrait à décéder sans enfants nés en légitime mariage, Mademoiselle de Valentinois est habilitée à Lui succéder dans tels Ses droits, titres et prérogatives ; pour cela, en tant que besoin est, Nous suppléons de Notre pleine Autorité Souveraine au défaut de capacité qui pourrait Lui être opposé.

https://journaldemonaco.gouv.mc/Journaux/1911/Journal-2797

 

[Moonmaiden23]

If Albert said his nephews didn't ask his permission to marry it depends on the context as to whether that was in any way meaningful. He might have said they didn't ask because they didn't need to. Pierre at least must have had his approval as his civil wedding took place in the throne room. I also agree that Nicole never criticises Albert, it's always Charlene she takes aim at. Oh and Alexandre IS illegitimate as his parents were not married to each other, it's not a nice word but that is what it means. He also said in the P de V that Albert didn't ask for a DNA test regarding him but I thought he did.

All of Princess Caroline's three oldest children married civilly in the Palace Throne Room with their Uncle Albert present, not just Pierre.

ETA: It would have been absurd for Albert to have demanded a DNA test for Alexandre. As a baby and as a toddler that child was almost a clone of Albert.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

4. The ruling prince determines who uses the name Grimaldi, which is a mark of being in the dynasty. (House Rules)

But as you pointed out, Monegasque laws cannot deprive Alexandre of his rights in France under French law, and under French law he is entitled to the surname of his father. Unless the family has confirmed somewhere (have they?) whether he consented to Alexandre and Jazmin using the name of Grimaldi, we cannot know whether it was used with his approval. Even if they have used the name of Grimaldi within Monaco, it is possible that he has not consented but simply chooses not to enforce the law for the sake of family peace.

5. Alexandre pointed out that he has always carried that name and that name alone. (PDV)

Which is interesting as it contradicts what his mother said two years ago.

Oh? Can you provide me with the citation for that fact?

See Articles 226-9 and 226-10 of the Civil Code, which stipulate that a recognized child of a father and a mother is legitimated when they marry (which implies they are illegitimate until then).

And unfortunately in dynastic terms, he IS. As his sister Jazmin. Who interestingly enough posted on Instagram for Alexandre's Birthday, last week...."My PRINCE turns 20 today". Sheesh.

I don't think that is necessarily anything more than an expression of affection, but for future reference, could you or anyone link to the post?

 

[victor1319]

But as you pointed out, Monegasque laws cannot deprive Alexandre of his rights in France under French law...

Well, but this is a theory.... I bet, Prince Albert still supports Alexandre and his mother financially. And if this stops, they are in trouble.

And if they would go to a court whereever to sue Prince Albert to continue with this payments... - Good luck, since he enjoys legal immunity!