The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1041  
Old 08-08-2015, 07:23 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Durham, United States
Posts: 1,324
There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Eric and Jazmin are "abused, ignored, nor neglected." And sorry, I don't agree that it is their "right" to live "considerable luxury". It seems that they are quite well taken care of. It seems that there is a dead horse being beaten here and I don't understand the motivation for it. Everything we have heard suggests that these children are well taken care of. Now, is it their "right" to live in the Palace in Monaco? Uh, NO. It might be the wish of one of their mothers or even them, but it is not a right by any means. IMO, of course.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #1042  
Old 08-08-2015, 07:56 PM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 3,937
^^^ I take issue with the suggestion I am beating a dead horse, since that implies it is a hopeless issue and I don't believe it is a hopeless issue. But whether or not what I am doing constitutes beating a dead horse, I find myself compelled to do so whenever I get an inkling that it is being suggested that Albert's two elder children are somehow entitled to less - be it less recognition or concern or less money or less in any other way - than their younger half-siblings who happened to be born after their father married.

And I'm not talking about any of the bells and whistles that follow from Albert's princely status, for that stuff is limited to the children of his marriage by reason of the rules that apply to inheritance of that stuff. At no time have I suggested - nor would I do so - that they have any right to live in the Palace in Monaco. Though maybe, on reflection, I should, since I probably would argue that the child of an ordinary man's previous relationship should not be prohibited from living with its father in the home where the father lives with his second/third/etc. wife or partner and their family, certainly in the case of minor children, merely because they were illegitimate and born of casual liaisons rather than "acceptable" relationships. But I most certainly hope that neither of his elder children is dissuaded from visiting their father there, or made to walk in the back entrance. Charlene knew he had other children when she married him, and the suggestion that she somehow needs to be protected from the presence of her step children causes me to start looking for the flogger again.

But I digress. I am primarily arguing in favour of recognition without discrimination, and certain consequences follow from that.
__________________

__________________
"That's it then. Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful beheadings, -- and call off Christmas!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #1043  
Old 08-08-2015, 08:30 PM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 6,940
Quote:
Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
It would be nice if this were true, but somehow I doubt it is. It would be too awkward for Charlene for them both to be there, especially now that she has Jacques and Gabriella. And I've heard that Albert isn't much in touch with Alexandre, so it seems a bit odd for him to suddenly invite him to Monaco to stay (unless it was a sort of "bonding holiday"...).

I read in the earlier pages of this thread that Alexandre and his mother Nicole live in a villa in Villefranche-sur-Mer, does anyone know if they still live there?
Princess Charlene is a woman whose love for children is evident. I doubt she'd have any objection at all to Eric and Jazmin spending family time at Roc Agel with she and Albert and the twins, in fact according to Jazmin Grimaldi it has already happened.

Nicole is-or was-pursuing a career as a fashion designer in London as of late last year. She might still keep her villa in the South of France, but her official base is now in London.


[But I digress. I am primarily arguing in favour of recognition without discrimination, and certain consequences follow from that]


Sorry Roslyn, but I genuinely don't follow you here. What specific type of "recognition without discrimination" re: Jazmin and Eric are you suggesting? Taking 11 year old Eric away from his mother and moving him into the Palace? Offering Nicole a room there as well?

Jazmin is an adult. She has already demonstrated by her actions and in her interviews that she is content with her life and the amount of involvement she has with her father and his family.
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" MLK Jr 1929-1968
Reply With Quote
  #1044  
Old 08-09-2015, 01:33 AM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 3,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
[But I digress. I am primarily arguing in favour of recognition without discrimination, and certain consequences follow from that]

Sorry Roslyn, but I genuinely don't follow you here. What specific type of "recognition without discrimination" re: Jazmin and Eric are you suggesting? Taking 11 year old Eric away from his mother and moving him into the Palace? Offering Nicole a room there as well?
It's very simple. All I mean is that everyone should acknowledge that Albert has four children, not just two babies, and that each of those four children is equal, both in importance as human beings and as his children, regardless of their status with respect to legitimacy.
__________________
"That's it then. Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful beheadings, -- and call off Christmas!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #1045  
Old 08-09-2015, 02:16 AM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 6,940
By "everyone" do you mean the Press? Some sort of official announcement in Nice Matin that Prince's flings with his lovers produced two children that are of equal importance to the heirs? Or a proclamation from the Palais/Albert demanding that every single mention of the Prince's family public or privately uttered must include his out of wedlock offspring? Seriously?

Because frankly the Monegasques are not likely to agree. They surely know that Eric and Jazmin exist but they are probably not going to be able to be persuaded to manifest the same level of interest and affection for them as they do their future Sovereign and his sister.

As the saying goes....you can pull a horse to the water but you cannot force it to drink.

As for myself, I have and do acknowledge that Albert has four children. I am sure that he loves all of them deeply and wants the best for them. As human beings Eric and Jazmin are just as important as the twins and entitled to the same amount of dignity and respect. They did not choose the circumstances of their births.

But to pretend that all four hold the same level of Constitutional importance, to pretend that their positions in Monegasque society are all exactly the same, is just Kabuki theater.

It isn't true, it will never be true.
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" MLK Jr 1929-1968
Reply With Quote
  #1046  
Old 08-09-2015, 02:37 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 6,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Z View Post
Well, let's just say it would be nice if all P.Albert's children turn out to have a better relationship with eachother than P.Bernhard's children had/have
Well... Alexia Lejeune Grinda was born in the same year Prince Bernhard's eldest daughter gave birth to Prince Willem-Alexander... How can one expect Princess Beatrix to keep a sisterly relationship with a someone in France, 29 years younger than her, with the same age as her own son?

And all this in 1967, in a conservative society and at a conservative Court. It does not depend on the Prince only, it also did depend on the willingness of Queen Juliana, Princess Beatrix and the others how to cope with this. Both Alicia and Alexia have stirred old wounds open in the stormy marriage of Queen Juliana and Prince Bernhard.

By the way: Alexia told about receptions at Soestdijk Palace. Her half-sister Alicia told in media about annual holidays with Princess Juliana and her father at the royal villa Il Elefante Felice in Porto Ercole (Italy) and she described Princess Juliana, the former Queen, as a most warm and loving person. Alicia told she went shopping with her, in Italy. During one of these holidays she also met her other half-sister Alexia.

The story above shows how complicated such relationships can be. While Princess Charlène is nursing her little two babies, her husband already has an adult daughter walking around and seeking media attention (unlike Alicia and Alexia above)... The age difference between Jacques/Gabriella and Yasmin is 23 years... How can these three ever have a normal sisterly relationship? No wonder Princess Charlène is at her qui-vive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
It's very simple. All I mean is that everyone should acknowledge that Albert has four children, not just two babies, and that each of those four children is equal, both in importance as human beings and as his children, regardless of their status with respect to legitimacy.
But Albert has acknowledged he has four children. He is not hiding them. They are just no part of the famille princière. What do we expect Princess Charlène to do? Yasmin is 23 years (!) older than her princely half-siblings. Yasmin already has the age on which normal children leave the parental nest and settle an independent life. Now apparently she still has to make a sort of "family" or something? It would all turn into a cheap vaudeville. It is as it is, Yasmin and Alexandre are very privileged and their lives go as it goes. Soit.

Reply With Quote
  #1047  
Old 08-09-2015, 03:38 AM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 3,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
By "everyone" do you mean the Press? Some sort of official announcement in Nice Matin that Prince's flings with his lovers produced two children that are of equal importance to the heirs? Or a proclamation from the Palais/Albert demanding that every single mention of the Prince's family public or privately uttered must include his out of wedlock offspring? Seriously?

Because frankly the Monegasques are not likely to agree. They surely know that Eric and Jazmin exist but they are probably not going to be able to be persuaded to manifest the same level of interest and affection for them as they do their future Sovereign and his sister.

As the saying goes....you can pull a horse to the water but you cannot force it to drink.

As for myself, I have and do acknowledge that Albert has four children. I am sure that he loves all of them deeply and wants the best for them. As human beings Eric and Jazmin are just as important as the twins and entitled to the same amount of dignity and respect. They did not choose the circumstances of their births.

But to pretend that all four hold the same level of Constitutional importance, to pretend that their positions in Monegasque society are all exactly the same, is just Kabuki theater.

It isn't true, it will never be true.
I mean what I have said on the issue. No more, and no less. I have never suggested the elder children hold the same level of constitutional importance in Monaco as their half brother and sister, and indeed I have distinguished their situations on that point.
__________________
"That's it then. Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful beheadings, -- and call off Christmas!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #1048  
Old 08-09-2015, 04:04 AM
fandesacs2003's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 4,016
Paternal love is quite different than maternal. Prince Albert had these quite short relationships with Nicole and Tamara, especially with Tamara it was very short... and the two babies arrived. He was quite immediately in contact with Alexander (why Eric?) but not with Jasmine. I do not expect his feelings and involvement to be the same that with the twins. He married their mum and choose to spend his life with her. Of course he loves the two older kids but they are the product of short not deep relationships. He behaviours very well and seriously with them but I don't know if they can be more into Monaco's life. I did not know that Nicole was married but Tamara was. She had this short affair with a Prince and she flew back to US to her then family. She had a baby which she showed years after. What was she expecting more? It is the price of the risk. And that makes this kids "non légitime " for me is not that their parents were not married is that they are not a product of a real relationship. Just from short time "fréquentations "
Reply With Quote
  #1049  
Old 08-09-2015, 04:17 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 6,653
It is important to note that also the children of Princess Caroline and Princess Stéphanie, as well the children of their aunt Princess Antoinette never played any public role. Yes, they are seen in and about Monaco and sometimes with the Prince. But that is it. The public roles are almost all executed by the Prince and by his eldest sister the Princess of Hannover.

Even if Yasmin becomes more involved with her 23 years younger half-siblings, it is hard to see any public role for her. Maybe she will marry a Monsieur Duval or something in a couple of years and have her own family. What do we expect? Madame Duval née Grimaldi formerly Rotolo opening a new swimmingpool at the Centre Aquatique Rainier III ? It is hard to see what her role can be. There is already no role for Princess Stéphanie, aside from attending the annual Circus Festival.
Reply With Quote
  #1050  
Old 08-09-2015, 06:06 AM
melina premiere's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sassenage, France
Posts: 3,075
There are not enough events in Monaco to give a role to the illigitimat children, Caroline attends to the events tied to the présidences that her father gavr her as the inauguration of a art event or a event with the Amade, no more , Stéphanie with the circus and the her big association of FightAids, now there is the wife of the prince who is attending at the most important events of Monaco as the national fest, the saint devote fest , religieos processions, red cross gala, the grand prix, festival tv opening , visit to the maternity, pic nic , inauguration of schools and nurseries with Albert and receptions to the palace for big events


The monegash will never want to see illigitimat children near the reigning family Albert, Charlene and the twins at such events and at religious fests as Sainte Devote, the catholic religious is the state religous at Monaco,
Reply With Quote
  #1051  
Old 08-09-2015, 10:06 AM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 6,940
Quote:
Originally Posted by fandesacs2003 View Post
Paternal love is quite different than maternal. Prince Albert had these quite short relationships with Nicole and Tamara, especially with Tamara it was very short... and the two babies arrived. He was quite immediately in contact with Alexander (why Eric?) but not with Jasmine. I do not expect his feelings and involvement to be the same that with the twins. He married their mum and choose to spend his life with her. Of course he loves the two older kids but they are the product of short not deep relationships. He behaviours very well and seriously with them but I don't know if they can be more into Monaco's life. I did not know that Nicole was married but Tamara was. She had this short affair with a Prince and she flew back to US to her then family. She had a baby which she showed years after. What was she expecting more? It is the price of the risk. And that makes this kids "non légitime " for me is not that their parents were not married is that they are not a product of a real relationship. Just from short time "fréquentations "
I remember reading that Nicole Coste had been separated a long time from her husband, who was living in either Paris or Togo with their children at the time she met Prince Albert. The reason I refer to Nicole's son with Albert as "Eric" is because he was initially given that name briefly at birth and IIRC it is still one of his official names. And I prefer not to type out "Alexandre".

The Monegasques, as I understand, are conservative and very Catholic. Perhaps that is one of the reasons Albert is never seen dining at one of the exclusive restaurants in the Hotel de Paris with Jazmin, or escorting her to the ballet in Monaco. I do remember photos of him in Villefranche playing on the beach with Eric when he was a little boy but it was all very low key. They were blurry photos snapped by a paparazzo.

As hypocritical and old-fashioned as it appears, perhaps they do not want to see their prince's other children(as suggested by melina-premiere posted) presented to them as part of the official picture.
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" MLK Jr 1929-1968
Reply With Quote
  #1052  
Old 08-09-2015, 10:24 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,206
I don't think the Monegasques are that conservative - they have accepted the less than traditional arrangements of their princely family for years. Rainier's mother was apparently born out of wedlock, all of Antoinette's children were born before she married their father, Rainier openly lived with Gisele Pascal for several years, not to mention all the situations involving the current generations.
However, acceptance of that less than traditional approach doesn't mean that Jazmin and Alexandre are, or should be, part of his public life. They are provided for and relations are apparently amicable - I don't see how Albert can be as close to them as to his "official" family but their circumstances were, and continue to be, different.
I don't know what more is expected - it doesn't seem as those directly involved have any complaints about the situation.
Reply With Quote
  #1053  
Old 08-18-2015, 08:17 AM
Marty91charmed's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Near Verona and Venice, Italy
Posts: 6,061
Jazmin and Eric were spotted enjoyiong together a boat trip in Monaco... One cal also spot a woman with them, presumably Nicole Coste. ( Eric has eyes piexeled since he is still underage)

http://36.media.tumblr.com/54d58ea4a...7z8o1_1280.jpg
__________________
"Yet, walking free upon her own estate
Still,in her solitude, she is the Queen".
Reply With Quote
  #1054  
Old 08-18-2015, 09:36 AM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 6,940
Yes, I am pretty certain that is Nicole Coste.

Well, there goes the assertion that Eric and Jazmin are kept hidden.
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" MLK Jr 1929-1968
Reply With Quote
  #1055  
Old 08-18-2015, 09:42 AM
eya eya is online now
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: -, Greece
Posts: 7,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
Yes, I am pretty certain that is Nicole Coste.

Well, there goes the assertion that Eric and Jazmin are kept hidden.
I agree. And all this talk about the hidden children of Albert wasted
Reply With Quote
  #1056  
Old 08-18-2015, 10:11 AM
Chimene's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Boston, United States
Posts: 582
I thought his name was Alexandre. Where is this Eric coming from, did he change his name?
__________________
The need to be right is the sign of a vulgar mind. ~ Albert Camus
Reply With Quote
  #1057  
Old 08-18-2015, 10:31 AM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 3,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimene View Post
I thought his name was Alexandre. Where is this Eric coming from, did he change his name?

His full name is Éric Alexandre Stéphane Coste Grimaldi. There seems to be debate on whether he goes by Alexandre, Alex, Éric, or Éric Alexandre.
Reply With Quote
  #1058  
Old 08-18-2015, 12:10 PM
HereditaryPrincess's Avatar
Heir Apparent
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Greater London, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty91charmed View Post
Jazmin and Eric were spotted enjoyiong together a boat trip in Monaco... One cal also spot a woman with them, presumably Nicole Coste. ( Eric has eyes piexeled since he is still underage)

http://36.media.tumblr.com/54d58ea4a...7z8o1_1280.jpg
Thank you for sharing, it's nice to hear that the reports about the holiday were true and Alexandre obviously is in touch with the family as well as Jazmin which is great to see (I had previously got the impression that Jazmin was more in touch with the family than her younger half-brother). I wonder if they were with Charlene, as I read that she's currently on a yacht in the South of France.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
His full name is Éric Alexandre Stéphane Coste Grimaldi. There seems to be debate on whether he goes by Alexandre, Alex, Éric, or Éric Alexandre.
I thought Alexandre just had Coste as his surname, has Grimaldi been recently added on?
__________________
"For beautiful eyes, look for the good in others; for beautiful lips, speak only words of kindness; and for poise, walk with the knowledge that you are never alone". Audrey Hepburn

*
"Think of all the beauty still left around you and be happy". Anne Frank
Reply With Quote
  #1059  
Old 08-18-2015, 04:55 PM
Marty91charmed's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Near Verona and Venice, Italy
Posts: 6,061
Quote:
Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
I wonder if they were with Charlene
My pleasure. Uhm, I don't know. Maybe Jazmin, but I find it very unlikely that Eric was there too with her IMO!
__________________
"Yet, walking free upon her own estate
Still,in her solitude, she is the Queen".
Reply With Quote
  #1060  
Old 08-18-2015, 05:12 PM
melina premiere's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sassenage, France
Posts: 3,075
It is not sure that the photo was taken in Monaco, there is no legend and the photo is very small. the photo may be taken at Villefranche sur Mer where Nicole Costes has a house.


Is it sure that Charlene is currently on a yacht in the South of France, there is no photos and we don't know where she was seen. the only photos we saw Charlene on a yacht were taken on july 31th , the day before the wedding of Pierre she spent some hours on the yacht of a friend, Albert was at Kuala Lumpur for the Cio.But it is not the subject of this board
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Royal House of Savoy: History, Older News, Stories and Pictures Tosca Royal Families of Italy 129 10-22-2016 10:03 PM
February 2008 Newsletter: Older Royal Couples Avalon Picture of the Month, Special Features, Blogs and Articles 10 02-05-2008 07:50 AM




Popular Tags
albania ascot 2016 best gown september 2016 best outfit birthday christening coup d'etat crown prince frederik crown princess mary crown princess mary eveningwear crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit denmark duchess of cambridge duke of cambridge earthquakes europe fashion poll jewels journalism king abdullah ii king abdullah in new zealand king carl gustaf and queen silvia king willem-alexander luxembourg national day 2016 member introduction monarchy new zealand nobel 2016 norway november 2016 october 2016 picture of the week picture of the week december prince charles prince felix prince philip princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mette-marit fashion and style princess sofia queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen margrethe queen mathilde queen mathilde daytime fashion queen mathilde fashion queen mathilde hats queen maxima queen rania queen rania daytime fashion queen rania eveningwear queen rania fashion queen silvia september 2016 state visit succession sweden swedish royal family summer portraits the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats tiara tiaras valentino visit to canada


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:53 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises