Prince Albert's Older Children Part 1: 2009 - 2023

[Renata4711]

I agree with both of you, Kitty and Bones )

Race, colour, religion should never be the sole reason for having a close relationship.

The choice should come from the heart, but also from the mind.

 

[LadyMacAlpine]

Albert's relationship with 18-year-old daughter, Jazmine Grace is supposed to be pretty good. Among other things, it is said that he was very proud that Jazmine graduate this summer with the highest scores. Jazmine mother is Tamara Rotolo, a waitress and when she became pregnant with Prince Albert. Today she need not work directly, but she supports her daughter in all cases, willingness to work as a model. You see them both on the image to the right which was taken after a fashion show.

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Just like I have been saying he has a good relationship with Jazmin. I heard she was in Monaco recently.

 

[Jaya]

I have written ad nauseum about the precedent setting case of Picasso and heirs.He had married a woman called Olga and had Paulo his son with her- then he had a daughter Maya by Marie Therese Walter and after that he was with Dora Maar who was usurped by Francoise Gilot[later she married Dr. Jonas salk of polio vaccine fame] and she had two children with him Paloma- yes of perfume fame and Claude.Although it looked like he might marry Gilot- he married after Olga's death J Roque and when he died he wrote a will that will live in infamy.Jaqueline Roque barred everybody from the funeral; etc and in his will left her"everything". So children from marriage Paulo- then Maya Paloma and Claude contested the will- and set the landmark case-Roque had to divide the fortune of Picasso among the heirs as it was according to the judge a birthright to have your father's monies; name and title which the last name is;-exclusion is against the law; and so they picked straws for the colours of Picasso's paintings and monies were allocated according to percentages.
Need I say more?
For whatever reasons known only to herself Jaqueline Roque brought a gun to her head and shot herself in 1986. So I think PA's heirs have more in their birthrights than they realize and know- no piece of paper can say that I cannot have a a part or be entitled to my father's fortune or title; any heirs can supercede a wife.. They are the heirs with the rights of a dower.And Picasso was the precedent setting case of all time where children from inside marriage and from outside of it were given the justice due them.Those are the progeny of Prince Albert and anything can and will happen .They should not hide behind curtains or be excluded.
When he took over from his father Pa said he was going to strive for ethos of some type- I certainly hope so and it starts at home and with family.

I think his relationship with his children is private and that's the way it should remain.

No way - how would you feel if you had to hide behind curtains and be excluded? In France where the Picasso trials took place I am not certain it is even legal to do this anymore.Why should this remain private when Pa is a public figure and these are his children? His heir will certainly know about half siblings- and oh what a cozy picture is starting to manifest.

 

[FanofMonaco]

I am sure PA has excellent lawyers and his 2 current children will only inherit what he wants them to. For instance he could put all or most of his money in a irrevocable trust with someone else as the trustee. He could give away most of his money before he dies. From what you discribed it sounds like Picasso's will was written by his last wife. Most of all, don't forget that PA's will will be executed in Monaco.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Jaya it is not a matter of anyone "hiding behind curtains". It is a matter of innocent children being allowed to have a life free of intrusion from paparrazzi and prurient press stories.

Jazmin is legally an adult and can do as she pleases. Alexandre is a little boy and people need to leave him alone and let him have his childhood.

Financially, it is all but certain that both Jazmin and Alexandre will be set for life.

This has nothing to do with Pablo Picasso and his trainwreck, messy private life.

 

[COUNTESS]

Jaya it is not a matter of anyone "hiding behind curtains". It is a matter of innocent children being allowed to have a life free of intrusion from paparrazzi and prurient press stories.

Jazmin is legally an adult and can do as she pleases. Alexandre is a little boy and people need to leave him alone and let him have his childhood.

Financially, it is all but certain that both Jazmin and Alexandre will be set for life.

This has nothing to do with Pablo Picasso and his trainwreck, messy private life.

Hear, hear. Very well said. Precedent set one place does not, necessarily sell in another. I am sure Albert will leave his children a good amount, probably, has already set up trust funds for them. The rest is his to bequeath as he wills. How he includes them in whatever will be his choice, right or wrong. He is a sovereign not Picasso.

 

[Jaya]

Jaya it is not a matter of anyone "hiding behind curtains". It is a matter of innocent children being allowed to have a life free of intrusion from paparrazzi and prurient press stories.

Jazmin is legally an adult and can do as she pleases. Alexandre is a little boy and people need to leave him alone and let him have his childhood.

Financially, it is all but certain that both Jazmin and Alexandre will be set for life.

This has nothing to do with Pablo Picasso and his trainwreck, messy private life.

Jazmin is an adult and she has not been to the Ball. How would you feel?.... this is not exactly an episode of Father Knows Best.

Hear, hear. Very well said. Precedent set one place does not, necessarily sell in another. I am sure Albert will leave his children a good amount, probably, has already set up trust funds for them. The rest is his to bequeath as he wills. How he includes them in whatever will be his choice, right or wrong. He is a sovereign not Picasso.

The case is world wide precedent setting one and applies to everybody-Precedents do not"sell" and change from place to place otherwise we would have anarchy.Picasso is was and will be sovereign as his paintings sell for 90.000 million US.Anything can be contested.......right or wrong.The children of Picasso proved it and left a landmark case behind that is etched in the legal history books.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Why is Jazmin not at the ball? Let's see.....

She has only recently turned eighteen and last time I checked there were not any prepubescent kids frolicking at either the Rose or Red Cross Galas...it is an event for ADULTS...which is probably why Princess Caroline's youngest daughter doesn't go either.

Now that she is of legal age, who is to say that we won't eventually see her at one of the Principality's grand events?

 

[Lumutqueen]

Now that she is of legal age, who is to say that we won't eventually see her at one of the Principality's grand events?

Why would we see the illegitamate daughter of Prince Albert at a royal event? She has avoided all forms of press and attention for 18 years, why would she now show up in Monaco and attend the principalitys big events.
If she wants to always lead a normal life, she will stay as far away from Monaco and the big events.

They aren't hiding behind the curtains, they are simply leading the life they should do. Why should they be by their fathers side in Monaco, when it's quite clear they don't want to be.
They are private citizens and should remain that way.

 

[carlota]

alexander's mother attended red cross gala the other day, so it wouldn't be surprising to see jazmin and alexander participating in the balls when they are older.

 

[Zonk]

Let's kill the illegtimate talk...we know Albert and Tamara were not married when Jazmin was conceived.

For the record, Monaco has a history of children born out of wedlock who have had a role in Monaco, so anything is possible.

 

[hibou]

Let's kill the illegtimate talk...we know Albert and Tamara were not married when Jazmin was conceived.

For the record, Monaco has a history of children born out of wedlock who have had a role in Monaco, so anything is possible.

I agree Zonk. The kids are here like it or not and you can't change history. As for the discussion of "The Will" Jaya stated correctly using the Picasso estate example that the kids will by law be included in his estate. He cannot legally leave them out whether his has more kids with Charlene or not. They are his. They are acknowledged by him as his, and they are by law entitled to a portion of his estate.

 

[Nadine]

To clarify, on April 2, 2002, Monaco's constitution changed and implemented Princely Law 1.249 (seen here in its entirety: List of Succession to the Monegasque Throne - Definition), which spells out clearly & concisely the rules of succession.

Basically, if Albert does not legally marry and produce a legitimate biological offspring, then the crown will automatically pass to his sister or her children. The only way an illegitimate biological offspring can succeed to the throne is if his/her parents are legally married. In Albert's case, he would have to marry either Jazmin's mother or Alexandre's mother in order for either one of their children to inherit the throne. This is why you do not see Stephanie's youngest child, Camille, on the list of succession, because Stephanie never married Camille's father. End of story.

By the way, the 2002 succession law is more strict than the one passed in 1918, namely the old law stated that the reigning prince could adopt an heir (be it biological or not; this is how Prince Louis II was able to make his illegitimate daughter, Charlotte, his heir) to succeed him upon his death if he died without a legitimate biological heir. This option no longer exists, now if the reigning prince dies without a legitimate biological heir, the crown passes automatically to the next sibling and his/her children.

Of course, any change to the constitution has to be approved by Monaco's Crown Council.

This is all pedantic really, as I'm sure Albert will legally marry Charlene Wittstock next summer on July 9, 2011, and eventually the two will produce a legitimate heir.

And I stand by what I stated earlier, Prince Albert's relationship with his children has always been private, and should remain thus imho. Until He sees fit to change this, then abide by his code of privacy, silence, and respect on this delicate issue. In my humble opinion.

Edited To Add: I realize, of course, as long as there are busybodies who delight in making mischief, meddling in the affairs of others, and stirring the pot, Prince Albert & his children will be given no peace nor privacy regarding their relationship. C'est la vie...

 

[Zonk]

I agree that Albert's children should be allowed to grow up privately. I think that is the case for all royal children and children of celebrities. When they turn 18, and if they decide to seek a life in the spotlight than that is totally different. But then they should be prepared for the good and bad aspects of a public life.

What I dislike is the term illegtimate, we all know the parents never married. We don't need to be reminded all of time on this forum or via the press.

IMO its like people are using it to bash the kids or for shock value. For the record, I don't think that is the case with the members of TRF but still...do we need to say it everytime?

 

[Renata4711]

Zonk, could you suggest a term which will be less offensive (to you and others)?

We could then agree on this between all of us.

There are alternatives: born out of wedlock; offspring of putative marriages; born of an unwed mother; extramarital relationship; and - yes, it's still around! - "bastard".

In any case, the percentage of live births outside marriage are growing fast in many countries.

There is also a strong growth in so-called "non-paternity events", i.e. mothers giving birth by sperm donation, without a father being part of the picture.

So, the "problem" will solve itself in due course.

 

[Zonk]

How about this...just his daughter and son?

Do we say Charlotte legitimate daughter of Caroline and Stefano?

 

[Renata4711]

I think that we might agree on "Alexandre, son of Nicole" or "Nicole's son Alex", or even "Albert's son by Nicole". Obviously the same for Jazmin....

 

[Zonk]

that might work. Alex, Alber'ts son with Nicole. Jazmin, Albert's son with Tamara.

 

[Renata4711]

Might it be worth enshrining that into the "Rules" ? It would signal a basic respect for the family members.

 

[hibou]

Zonk, could you suggest a term which will be less offensive (to you and others)?

We could then agree on this between all of us.

There are alternatives: born out of wedlock; offspring of putative marriages; born of an unwed mother; extramarital relationship; and - yes, it's still around! - "bastard".

In any case, the percentage of live births outside marriage are growing fast in many countries.

There is also a strong growth in so-called "non-paternity events", i.e. mothers giving birth by sperm donation, without a father being part of the picture.

So, the "problem" will solve itself in due course.

Right now they are Albert's only children so why not just say Albert's kids. If he and Charlene have kids, you can always say Charlene's step-children or Albert's older kids. Or, just say Albert's son Alex, Albert's daughter Jazmin. There's really not need to mention the mothers at all.

 

[Jaya]

Right now they are Albert's only children so why not just say Albert's kids. If he and Charlene have kids, you can always say Charlene's step-children or Albert's older kids. Just a suggestion.

I like your suggestion hibou. It does not make a distinction against either parent or child.

 

[Renata4711]

I think it might be sad to leave the mums to one side !

PA and Tamara have created Jazmin, and PA and Nicole have created Alexandre together.


And with a bit of luck, PA and CW might create a new life together...

 

[hibou]

I think it might be sad to leave the mums to one side !

PA and Tamara have created Jazmin, and PA and Nicole have created Alexandre together.


And with a bit of luck, PA and CW might create a new life together...

True, but they tend to cause a firestorm when their names are mentioned so it might be best for the sake of discussion to not mention them.

 

[Renata4711]

Firestorm or not - they are a big part of the picture and will be more so, as they mature, and become more important to their father.

We're dealing with realities here, not with fairytales which we can conveniently sweep under the carpet.

 

[hibou]

Firestorm or not - they are a big part of the picture and will be more so, as they mature, and become more important to their father.

We're dealing with realities here, not with fairytales which we can conveniently sweep under the carpet.

You are illustrating my point about firestorms rather well.

 

[NGalitzine]

Why discuss his children at all. They are not part of the Princely Family and will play no role in the official life of the principality. Their private relationship with their father is exactly that, private, and it no ones business but their own.

You dont see active discussions on the Dutch board of the "extra" daughters of Prince Bernhard or on the Belgian board of the extra daughter of King Albert II. Everyone knows they exist, but they are private citizens and what ever their relationship or lack there of to the royal relations it is a private matter.

 

[Thtregoddess11]

How about this...just his daughter and son?

Do we say Charlotte legitimate daughter of Caroline and Stefano?

Great point. Seriously.
How about PA and Tamara's daughter Jazmin and PA and Nicole's son Alexandre?
After all, we'll refer to PA and Charlene's children as PA and Charlene's children, and refer to PS's kids as Princess Stephanie's child with so-and-so...etc....

 

[Zonk]

Why discuss his children at all. They are not part of the Princely Family and will play no role in the official life of the principality. Their private relationship with their father is exactly that, private, and it no ones business but their own.

You dont see active discussions on the Dutch board of the "extra" daughters of Prince Bernhard or on the Belgian board of the extra daughter of King Albert II. Everyone knows they exist, but they are private citizens and what ever their relationship or lack there of to the royal relations it is a private matter.

Well actually, there are threads about Delphine and Bernhard's daughters (I am sorry the names escape me at the moment). I guess the big difference is that they are ADULTS and Albert's kids are young. Well, Jazmin just turned 18 but you get my drift.

 

[Nathalie Cox]

This thread...i'm wondering, if Albert and Charlene have kids, this thread will be named as it is currently?
Because if they have kids, one day there will be a thread for their kids such as "Prince Albert and Family Current Events" or "Prince/ss ........ current events" and what will happen to this thread name? I mean, this thread will be use to discuss his children with Tamara and Nicole and there will be another one for his "princely" children?

 

[NGalitzine]

Well actually, there are threads about Delphine and Bernhard's daughters (I am sorry the names escape me at the moment). I guess the big difference is that they are ADULTS and Albert's kids are young. Well, Jazmin just turned 18 but you get my drift.

Yes, but they are not active and ongoing threads, people got over their existence. I would think that Albert's children being more or less minors would be even more of a reason to ignore their existence and leave them to whatever remains of their privacy.