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  #121  
Old 07-06-2005, 05:13 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Who was stopping her? And if she cared for her family why would she have a kid without being married to the father?
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  #122  
Old 07-06-2005, 05:38 PM
Athena's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lashinka2002
Resolved for Albert maybe but not for Nicole or her family. Or do they not matter in this forum? How is anything resolved for her when she can't even tell her own family members who the father of her child is What good is anything else provided for her son when she can't even share the name of her fathers child with her family members? Not share his name because he's a prince but share it because that's what people generally do when they have children Of course that's not enough for her and her son!!!
Resolved?

I thought Albert had privately acknowledged that the child was his. Did he not love the child unconditionally? Isn't that enough or do you think telling the whole world is better? Moreover, I am sure her family did know that Albert was the father -- they cannot be that naive.

Second, there are many children who do not take their father's last name. This situation is no different except for the fact that Albert is a ruling monarch, very wealthy, and famous.

Third, many people note the way she handled this whole situtation as vulgar. I cannot understand why she felt that everyone should know that he has a son when he already, privately, acknowledged this child as his? Isn't a father also supposed to love, provide shelter, spend time, financially take care of, and protect their children? Albert has done that. What more should he do? What is the difference if he acknowledged it privately or publically? To me it seems Albert loves this child dearly and wanted to protect him -- so much so that he keep it private for his security. The public didn't know, rightfully, for obvious reasons. It would, in my opinion, have been better to wait until the child came of age when he could have handled the pressure of the press a tad better. Now the poor kid will be harassed by the press and so forth.

This woman got what she wanted and will be well taken cared for -- not only by Albert, but when her son comes of age and inherits money he'll most likely take care of her until the end. So basically she's a happy camper.



Also, when quoting me please include the quote to which I was repsonding too; otherwise, it seems as if you were trying to misinterpret my words on purpose.

Example when I was responding to this members statement:
Sure it would have been great if this could have been resolved privately and for no press to be involved but that could probably happen only in someone's imagination.

I had orginally stated, " I thought it was."

When you took out the other poster's quote it looks like I was trying to say something else.

Thaaaanks.
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  #123  
Old 07-06-2005, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbette
Who was stopping her? And if she cared for her family why would she have a kid without being married to the father?
I had read in earlier posts and articles in this forum that Albert had requested that Nicole not reveal his identity even to her own family. This was no doubt a difficult task.
Just because Nicole had a child out of wedlock doesn't mean that she did not care for her family. The same could be said for Albert, Stephanie and millions of others on this planet who have had children out of wedlock.
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  #124  
Old 07-06-2005, 06:19 PM
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Ok then my remarks are in blue and yours are in black and I believe they are all Athena's quotes. I'm not trying to misinterpert anything I honestly hit the quote button and proceeded without realizing there would be confusion. I'll be more careful that way. :p

[QUOTE=Athena]Resolved?
I thought Albert had privately acknowledged that the child was his. Did he not love the child unconditionally? Isn't that enough or do you think telling the whole world is better? Moreover, I am sure her family did know that Albert was the father -- they cannot be that naive. [QUOTE]

I think that if Albert promised to acknowledge the child publicly than that's what he should have done. Recanting on legal documents that were promised to Nicole is certainly reason enough for her to doubt his future intentions. Lying and manipulating Nicole about these documents can also be considered vulgar. I doubt Nicole's family knew who the father was, if they did the story would have probably broken sooner.

[QUOTE=Athena]Second, there are many children who do not take their father's last name. This situation is no different except for the fact that Albert is a ruling monarch, very wealthy, and famous.[QUOTE]

In my post I did not mean Alexandre taking on the Grimaldi name I meant Nicole being able to tell people about Albert (as a person, not a prince) about being his father.


[QUOTE=Athena]Third, many people note the way she handled this whole situtation as vulgar. I cannot understand why she felt that everyone should know that he has a son when he already, privately, acknowledged this child as his? Isn't a father also supposed to love, provide shelter, spend time, financially take care of, and protect their children? Albert has done that. What more should he do? What is the difference if he acknowledged it privately or publically? To me it seems Albert loves this child dearly and wanted to protect him -- so much so that he keep it private for his security. The public didn't know, rightfully, for obvious reasons. It would, in my opinion, have been better to wait until the child came of age when he could have handled the pressure of the press a tad better. Now the poor kid will be harassed by the press and so forth.[QUOTE]

There is a difference! To acknowledge privatley is to imply some sort of public embarassment or scandal. (I'm not saying that some of your arguments don't make sense) What I'm trying to get across is that hiding Alexandre can have some negative effects on him in the future

Please tell me who handles press better: a child who is taught from a young age how to deal with it (like Albert) or an teenager/adult who is suddenly thrust into it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Athena
This woman got what she wanted and will be well taken cared for -- not only by Albert, but when her son comes of age and inherits money he'll most likely take care of her until the end. So basically she's a happy camper.
So what if her son can take care of her in her? Isn't that what most children do when they have the means or when they're parents get old? Why assume it will be Alexandre? It could be any of her other son's, relatives or future children.
How do you know what Nicole wanted????

This is getting pretty repetitive...
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  #125  
Old 07-06-2005, 06:22 PM
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Personally, I still state that Prince Albert acted admirably and as stated on an earlier post, he did not push his child away. All he asked was that Nicole waited until the mourning period was over. Now many feel that he would not have acknowledged his child, but I never did. He financiallyl supported his child, his mother and his sisters. He has done what others did not do by supporting Alexandre (who is quite adorable).

It takes two to tango; blame (if that is the right word) lies at both feet. I will always state, Prince Albert acted with responsibility.
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  #126  
Old 07-06-2005, 06:26 PM
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I would imagine that a lot of Nicole's problem with Albert's handling of the situation began when he wouldn't stand up to Rainier for her and their relationship. Whether she got pregnant on purpose or not, he shouldn't have slept with her PERIOD if he truly wanted to end the relationship and he knew she didn't want to. And if he was going to sleep with her anyway, WHY wouldn't he use a condom for goodness sake?????!!!!!! What in the world was he thinking?????!!!!! Obviously, NOT THINKING. I mean, seriously, folks, do ya think SHE RAPED HIM???!! I don't see how anyone could find her to be totally to blame for this.
Then, as far as why she went to the press,
I think she was probably at wit's end with the 2-year French rule about paternity coming up and apparently Albert & advisors had been putting her off and not keeping promises to her about the acknowledgement. They supposedly first told her "when Rainer dies", then "after the mourning period", then "maybe wait til the end of the year". I think most anyone in her position would have gotten quite fed up with the run-around she was getting.
I wouldn't have put up with being "hidden away" and treated like an embarrassment forever either.
If he's been stressed about all of this (I'm sure he has been) I'm sorry he got himself into this pickle, but let's face it, HE GOT HIMSELF INTO THIS PICKLE.
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  #127  
Old 07-06-2005, 06:30 PM
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I feel that she went to the press to, yes, make Albert acknowledge the paternity. But as far as "hidden away", he never hid her. Even when he was dating her, he was quite apparent with it. It was well known in France, and yes she was seen in Monaco. This is a precarious situation because Albert is the Reigning Prince, but let's stop and wonder, why did Ranier change the constitution APPROX. 2 years ago. HMMMMMMMMM???

I welcome all feedback!
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  #128  
Old 07-06-2005, 06:38 PM
Athena's Avatar
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Quote:
This is getting pretty repetitive...
Mmm, quite indeed.

Quote:
How do you know what Nicole wanted????
How do you? Of course, her actions speak volumes.

Quote:
There is a difference! To acknowledge privatley is to imply some sort of public embarassment or scandal.
Not necessarily.
This poor kid had the chance to live a relatively normal life free from the public eye and the unconditional love from Albert. The fact that she went public has done exactly what she stated she didn't want for her son in the first place, as noted in her talking to the press.


Quote:
So what if her son can take care of her in her? Isn't that what most children do when they have the means or when they're parents get old? Why assume it will be Alexandre? It could be any of her other son's, relatives or future children.
I believe you misinterpreted my statement.


Quote:
Please tell me who handles press better: a child who is taught from a young age how to deal with it (like Albert) or an teenager/adult who is suddenly thrust into it?
From personal experience, an adult. No question!

Quote:
I think that if Albert promised to acknowledge the child publicly than that's what he should have done. Recanting on legal documents that were promised to Nicole is certainly reason enough for her to doubt his future intentions.
Did she say that he was going to publicaly? I don't remember, but if I am correct me if I am wrong. What is the point in doing so?

Quote:
Lying and manipulating Nicole about these documents can also be considered vulgar. I doubt Nicole's family knew who the father was, if they did the story would have probably broken sooner.
True, but in my opinion her actions in handling (the timing of it mostly) this whole thing is beyond vulgar. I see it as a malicious act for gain -- whatever it may be.

And if her family did not know that the child was Albert's than not only is she tactless she is sneaky; moreover, her family must not care to ask or they are that naive.

Please remember this is my opinion so don't attack me for it.:)
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  #129  
Old 07-06-2005, 06:43 PM
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Thumbs up

Brava Athena!!!

Well put! I agree with you.

Her actions, HER'S, put Alexandre in the public eye. And she is not a Black Woman who have been victimized; she knew exactly what she was doing from the start.
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  #130  
Old 07-06-2005, 07:13 PM
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Well, hasn´t all turned out as positive as it could be? Alexandre has gotten a father, who cares financially for him and who (high likely) will also spend time with him. Nicole has gotten a father for her child. And Albert´s step has brought him, as I get it, many sympathies. Finally the rumours about him being homosexual will disappear. And one can be quite sure, that he´s fertile.
Personally I don´t think, that Albert would have married Nicole under different circumstances. I can´t imagine, that Rainier would have had a problem with her, which couldn´t have been solved after a few serious discussions. Probably the love simply wasn´t strong enough, and probably Albert wanted to go on with enjoying his bachelor-life. But my guess is, that Albert is finally taking over responsibility and this could result in settling down. Probably not with Nicole, but with an other woman. And I guess even then Alexandre won´t be excluded. He will have an other role than his half-siblings, but this hasn´t always to mean the worst. His life would be "quieter" and he wouldn´t have to take over a predetermined role...
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  #131  
Old 07-06-2005, 07:21 PM
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Nicely said, Lena.

Glad to know he's fertile as well .
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  #132  
Old 07-06-2005, 07:23 PM
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We actually will never know what went on between them. Alexandre has, and always had, a father took care of him, affectionately as well as financially. I think he will be/is a good father. I just wish think things could had worked out better for him, and yes for the Alexandre. I don't see anyone in the Royal Family distancing themselves from Alexandre.
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  #133  
Old 07-06-2005, 07:33 PM
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This whole story reminds me of another French scandal: Mazzarine, the secret daughter of Francois Mitterrand (French president). Her story is what would have been Alexandre's if Nicole did not go public: Mitterand regularly visited, provided and loved very much her daughter and she was never lied about the identity of her dad but had to keep it secret. Mazzarine talked and wrote about how painful it was to lie to others about her dad but that did not prevent her from creating a special link with her dad and she never doubted his love. She grew up a very cleaver and talented young lady, and is very proud of her dad.
Where I want to come is, Alexandre, from the way Albert behave with him after he was born, would certainly never have been lied about the identity of his dad. Of course the secret and all what it's implies would have been painful, but kids from divorce for example suffer also. I mean, his parents are not together anyway so he'll never have a united family. But the relation with his dad, the love they would share, THAT's the important thing IMO.
I understand the reasons why Nicole came public (through I don't appreciate the way she did it), I don't think she has greedy motives, I believe her to be genuine. But now, what does Alex has in inheritance: a distasteful splash of rumors, gossips, public obscene attention, unflattering comments about both his parents, etc.
I really think that will be more difficult for him now to develop a serene relationship with both his parents because of all the judgments strangers will project on him.
For all these reasons, I think that would have been better if that story was to be kept secret.
Sorry, long post.
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  #134  
Old 07-06-2005, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Athena
Mmm, quite indeed.



How do you? Of course, her actions speak volumes.

He's no angel either, the only difference is that he has a publicist.



Not necessarily.
This poor kid had the chance to live a relatively normal life free from the public eye and the unconditional love from Albert. The fact that she went public has done exactly what she stated she didn't want for her son in the first place, as noted in her talking to the press.

As the son of a reigning prince in my eyes he would have never lived a normal life.


I believe you misinterpreted my statement.

I believe you explained it incorrectly!


From personal experience, an adult. No question!

Well everyone's different!



Did she say that he was going to publicaly? I don't remember, but if I am correct me if I am wrong. What is the point in doing so?

The point is complete acceptance of his son. There will be no more questions on his paternity (for her family anyaways) There will be no hiding of Alexandre as if he's ashamed of him. There will be no Nicole looking over her shoulder wondering if somebody knows. The point is that its out in the open and theres nothing to hide which is probably a big relief. For Alexandre there will be no questions as to why he was never acknowledged before everyone (when future siblings are - if he Albert marry's) or stashed in the closet... which people fail to realize can really hinder a childs confidence. There will be freedom in that that sense but the price for it willl be the press. The press is not Nicoles fault its just there, something they have to deal with. Even if Alexandre's father was some other rich or poor guy I believe Nicole would have done the same and there may have been no press involved. It just so happens that in this situation there is.

True, but in my opinion her actions in handling (the timing of it mostly) this whole thing is beyond vulgar. I see it as a malicious act for gain -- whatever it may be.

And if her family did not know that the child was Albert's than not only is she tactless she is sneaky; moreover, her family must not care to ask or they are that naive.

Please remember this is my opinion so don't attack me for it.:)

In my opinion the timing was her only alternative considering the law of acknowledgement (over 2 yrs can't acknowledge until much older) It was just bad timing for Albert. It's pretty sad that he did not come forth with the news of his son to begin with, in my eyes that makes him look like a wuss.

Oh come on, is she sneaky now for staying quiet at Alberts request??? For goodness sakes the moment she opened her mouth about him she was condemned by practically everyone in this forum and now she's sneaky for not saying anything when he asked her not to. I'm sure her family asked but I believe she repected his wishes for as long as she could, but revolving the rest of her life around him was to much to ask....

I'm not attacking you. We just obviously have 2 strong different opinions on the same topic. I just want to shout mine out to the world!

I'm done for today, to much time on the computer for me!
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  #135  
Old 07-06-2005, 07:51 PM
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Good grief, sure took Albert a long time. Most fathers acknowledge their children during the pregnacy and certainly on the day of the birth. Well, I guess as the saying goes, better late than never. This is finally good news for the mother and child and should put any speculation regarding paternity to rest.
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  #136  
Old 07-06-2005, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
He's no angel either
Yes, but who is really.

Quote:
, the only difference is that he has a publicist.
And she has a powerful lawyer -- both play the "protect their client and do it in the best interest of their client card".

Quote:
As the son of a reigning prince in my eyes he would have never lived a normal life.
As I have said rather *key word* relatively normal life free from the public eye and the unconditional love from Albert.

Quote:
I believe you explained it incorrectly!
Touche!

Quote:
The point is complete acceptance of his son. There will be no more questions on his paternity (for her family anyaways) There will be no hiding of Alexandre as if he's ashamed of him. There will be no Nicole looking over her shoulder wondering if somebody knows. The point is that its out in the open and theres nothing to hide which is probably a big relief. For Alexandre there will be no questions as to why he was never acknowledged before everyone (when future siblings are - if he Albert marry's) or stashed in the closet... which people fail to realize can really hinder a childs confidence. There will be freedom in that that sense but the price for it willl be the press.
I would have to disagree with you on this one more than anything.

Albert did and does accept his son and I sincerely doubt Albert was worried about this women breathing down his neck about his role in the child's life. Moreover, to assume that the child would be hidden away is absurd. If anything, having and being a child in the limelight is extremely difficult -- even for the adult -- trust me. It is better for the child to be taken care of away from the press to grow up in a normal enviroment; unfortunately that has been thrown out the window forever.

Quote:
Even if Alexandre's father was some other rich or poor guy I believe Nicole would have done the same and there may have been no press involved. It just so happens that in this situation there is.
Personally speaking, I really doubt that.

Quote:
The press is not Nicoles fault its just there, something they have to deal with.
True they are there to get a scoop and she gave it to them freely; which she didn't have to do if she wanted to protect her child from them. Like I have noted before, the fact that she went public has done exactly what she stated she didn't want for her son in the first place, as noted in her talking to the press.

Quote:
Oh come on, is she sneaky now for staying quiet at Alberts request???
No, I said it was sneaky of her if she hid the idenity of the father, famous or not, from her family. Again, I doubt Albert would have told her to keep her family in the dark. I mean it is their relative -- do you think they are not going to ask?

Quote:
For goodness sakes the moment she opened her mouth about him she was condemned by practically everyone in this forum and now she's sneaky for not saying anything when he asked her not to.
I think the reason why she recieved such a backlash is due to the way she has handled it and the decpetive (to some) timing of it all. Right after the death of Albert's father -- a time of vulnerablity nonetheless.


Quote:
I'm not attacking you. We just obviously have 2 strong different opinions on the same topic. I just want to shout mine out to the world!
Of course, and that is the beauty of a healthy debate. We can both express our differences without verbally attacking each other. Moreover, I always like to hear other people's opinions -- it can give me insight to a totally different perspective without judgement. Did that make sense?

In the end, I appreciate/respect your comments, lashinka2002.:)
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  #137  
Old 07-06-2005, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Athena
being a child in the limelight is extremely difficult -- even for the adult -- trust me.:)
Why? Are you a star Athena (or maybe Athina... Roussel)?. Just kidding .
I judge some of comments about Alexandre beeing now a member of the family a bit naive.
I don't think that because Albert said in a statement that he was his son that he will start hanging out with, let say, Charlotte, Pauline, or whatever.
There also no assurance that Albert's future wife will truly accept this kid.
This whole statement is an official statement. I don't think that will change Alex's personal situation or life in facts (apart for the press sneaking around from now on).
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  #138  
Old 07-06-2005, 08:48 PM
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I think Albert is trying to handle this situation as diplomatically as he can, with an eye to what a future wife (and I do feel he will marry fairly soon now) and children will mean to the Monagasque people. The old days of royals being able to keep children from the "wrong" side of the blanket secreted away from the public is over, and perhaps that's for the best. It'll be interesting to see how Alexandre will be viewed as years pass by.
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  #139  
Old 07-06-2005, 08:49 PM
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If you guys want some REALLY interesting reading, go to www.members4.boardhost.com/CronePrincess. There are 2 people posting there who have one-a sister and the other-a friend from college - who dated Albert. What they each have had to say is pretty interesting I think.
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  #140  
Old 07-06-2005, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idriel
Why? Are you a star Athena (or maybe Athina... Roussel)?. Just kidding .
No thank the lawd
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