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  #1521  
Old 07-08-2011, 11:34 AM
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Neither PR-PG nor PA-PC had arranged marriages. Neither Grace nor Charlene's marriages were set up by their parents. They were not forced. It was their own decision.
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  #1522  
Old 07-08-2011, 11:42 AM
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With "arranged marriage" I was referring to people deciding to get married in order to serve a purpose and not for love, at least love not being the main reason.

This was certainly the case with Rainier & Grace (Rainier needed an heir and a Princess who could draw attention & money to Monaco, Grace wanted a family and a "status" husband who would please her father in particular) and could possibly the case with Albert & Charlene.
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  #1523  
Old 07-08-2011, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
With "arranged marriage" I was referring to people deciding to get married in order to serve a purpose and not for love, at least love not being the main reason.

This was certainly the case with Rainier & Grace (Rainier needed an heir and a Princess who could draw attention & money to Monaco, Grace wanted a family and a "status" husband who would please her father in particular) and could possibly the case with Albert & Charlene.
Your definition of "arranged marriage" applies to many, many marriages, it's just not referred to in that way. Many high society marriages are based on that kind of relationship.
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  #1524  
Old 07-08-2011, 12:44 PM
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Rainier and Grace had a marriage arranger : Father Tucker.
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  #1525  
Old 07-08-2011, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I dont see why an arranged marriage must be a bad thing - based on honesty, it can be a win-win situation for BOTH partners.
Rainier & Grace more or less had an arranged marriage - I am not saying it was a rose garden (what also applies to non-arranged marriages) but with time it became a win-win situation for both.
I dont know if Albert & Charlene have an arrangement but Albert is certainly no stranger to the topic.

Because it leands to misery and unhappiness. A better way of spending life (I don´t mean the whole life because I´m not naive and know that many relationships come to an end) is to marry for love. As a rather pretty young woman she could have looked for someone who cares for her, loves her, and if possible is not so much into casual relationships. She prefered a man who doubles her age, who has most probably cheated on her, humiliated, and who is looking desperately for a heir. If that is not greed and ambition ( the bad one, not the ambition that makes you fight for economical independence and a sucessful career). what is it then?
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  #1526  
Old 07-08-2011, 01:33 PM
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But here's the deal...if that is okay for Charlene why does it bother you so much? And why is she getting all the scorn. Why do 50 year old men with money always want young girls as wives/girl friends....what kind of ambition is that? Couldn't they find someone around their same age group (unless of course they were looking to kids) that they might have something more in common with? Whose to say that their marriage will end up in misery and unhappiness? How do you know that?

And whose to say that Charlene is being humiliated? Again, all I see are allegations. No proof has been provided as of yet to say that she was cheated on.

I've said it before and I will say it again: Charlene and Albert are two capable adults who both know the score. They know want type of relationship they want and it appears that they have it.

Its funny how some people are still debating the same issues years after this relationship has begun. If it doesn't work after a year, 5 years, 10 years or 25 years...they will pop up with "See I told you it would never work." Nothing is promised. We have seen plenty royal marriages (Joachim/Alexandra and Sarah/Andrew to name a few) plus I am sure that people have seen a lot normal relationships (thru people they know) that started with a lot more going on that we give these two credit for and where are they now: NOT TOGETHER.

Let's just see what happens.
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  #1527  
Old 07-08-2011, 01:41 PM
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Arranged marriages do not always lead to misery...just as marriages made for love do not always lead to happy ever after.

All you have to do is look at the current divorce rate in the West to see how true that is.

It would not work for me personally(an arranged marriage) but I do not think those marriages are in any way inferior to people who supposedly marry for love...only to see their great "love" flame out in infidelity, boredom, and occasionally even violence.
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  #1528  
Old 07-08-2011, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rosana View Post
Because it leands to misery and unhappiness. A better way of spending life (I don´t mean the whole life because I´m not naive and know that many relationships come to an end) is to marry for love. As a rather pretty young woman she could have looked for someone who cares for her, loves her, and if possible is not so much into casual relationships. She prefered a man who doubles her age, who has most probably cheated on her, humiliated, and who is looking desperately for a heir. If that is not greed and ambition ( the bad one, not the ambition that makes you fight for economical independence and a sucessful career). what is it then?
You are a romantic. It works 'for love' depending upon who the two people are and where they come from. Over the years I have come to realize that a successful marriage is more about shared values, goals, culture (small 'c') and education.

I have seen marriages begin with great love (real love and caring) as well as great lust and passion. They foundered when it came to raising the children that came along. When suddenly the woman or man realizes that those 'cute' little habits that were so endearing in the heated glow of young love actually translate into lethal disagreements on how to raise children, how to train children, how to educate children, along with how to keep house, how to be genially cohabiting roommates for a lifetime.

Now in my dotage I have seen the value in the idea of an 'arranged' marriage - where parents really analyze the values and attitudes of the prospective spouses. Clearly there are lots of problems with this system but so are there problems with the 'love system'.

However, it occurs to me that we engage in a sort of self-arranged dating and marriage with on-line dating. Consider the personality profiles and the list of desired characteristics, etc.

And so, when one boils it all down, its a bit of all of it. Yes, the person must be physically attractive to one, their energy must stimulate and engage. Women will always look to see if the man can support the 'nest' she will build for the children. The man will always look to see if the woman answers his criteria for 'nesting' his children - and so it goes. In a way, marriage is always an arrangement - except where it is two people dragged into the Love Chapel in Las Vegas by booze and lust and a winning streak.

Its an interesting study - marriage - and how children are managed. Different societies have handled it in vastly different ways. In the Middle Ages the daughter of a King would be betrothed to another very young and then sent to that court to be raised - we can clearly see that the attempt was being made to make sure the new bride when the time came would be thoroughly enculturated to her in-laws 'ways' when she finally married and bore children. (I realize that the rationale for doing this had many other reasons as well). Marriage is a deal no matter how you look at it - always has been. The idea that just love drives it is a risky one. The idea that material considerations don't enter in - beauty and youth for the man in regards the woman (hence ensuring healthy offspring), and wealth and standing for the woman in regards the man (hence ensuring material well-being and social standing/safety for herself and her offspring while she nurtures them) - is perhaps naive. Maybe.

I would say they are two healthy people - attractive to each other - so there is lust and passion - that's a beginning. They are also older and both of them have been around the block a few times - they would be able to fill out their computer dating profile with precision. I think they came up with a match.
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  #1529  
Old 07-08-2011, 03:41 PM
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In the discussion on fertility, we must remember that medical procedures or surrogate mothers would not be accepted in the Catholic Church. It is against doctrine.
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  #1530  
Old 07-08-2011, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Grandma828 View Post
In the discussion on fertility, we must remember that medical procedures or surrogate mothers would not be accepted in the Catholic Church. It is against doctrine.
I disagree. Some medical procedures have been approved by Catholic Church, such as Naprotechnology.
But it is rather premature to speak about a supposed infertility of the couple. Although I am very doubtful about a lot of things related to prince Albert and Charlene, I really hope they will never have the pain to be infertile.
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  #1531  
Old 07-08-2011, 05:36 PM
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I think a better term might be that they have come to an arrangement rather than that it was an arranged marriage which implies a 3rd person fixing the marriage. I don't think this is at all unusual when people (royal and commoner alike) are of a certain age and have known each other for some time. You decide there are certain things that you want out of life and that this is a person you think you can achieve this with. It does not mean that there is a lack of love or affection between the 2 people, merely that they are beyond the first flush of youthful romantic love and the rush to the altar with their "soulmate". If there is an arrangement between A & C and it works for them who are we to question their reasoning. There is no reason to believe that this kind of marriage would be any less successful that the so called love matches.
People forget that the idea of marrying for love is really an early 20th century concept, but as anyone who has been divorced can tell you marriage in the end is a contract about property, money and children.
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  #1532  
Old 07-08-2011, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
But here's the deal...if that is okay for Charlene why does it bother you so much? And why is she getting all the scorn. Why do 50 year old men with money always want young girls as wives/girl friends....what kind of ambition is that? Couldn't they find someone around their same age group (unless of course they were looking to kids) that they might have something more in common with? Whose to say that their marriage will end up in misery and unhappiness? How do you know that?

And whose to say that Charlene is being humiliated? Again, all I see are allegations. No proof has been provided as of yet to say that she was cheated on.

I've said it before and I will say it again: Charlene and Albert are two capable adults who both know the score. They know want type of relationship they want and it appears that they have it.

Its funny how some people are still debating the same issues years after this relationship has begun. If it doesn't work after a year, 5 years, 10 years or 25 years...they will pop up with "See I told you it would never work." Nothing is promised. We have seen plenty royal marriages (Joachim/Alexandra and Sarah/Andrew to name a few) plus I am sure that people have seen a lot normal relationships (thru people they know) that started with a lot more going on that we give these two credit for and where are they now: NOT TOGETHER.

Let's just see what happens.
I like you post.
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The dumb blonde, Princess-to-be Charlene, is having the last laugh.
From the article SA 'Blondie' laughs last. She proved all those who said it wouldn't happen wrong she might just have the last laugh when they stay married until death do us part.
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  #1533  
Old 07-08-2011, 05:53 PM
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NGalitzine...I could not possibly have put it better myself...your last paragraph pretty much says it all.

Lady MacAlpine....I am happy for Charlene that she is having the last laugh...just like Kate Middleton...it must be a great feeling.

But egads...what an unflattering article..did the author HAVE to use such embarrassing anecdotes??

Particularly the one about Tolkien......!!
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  #1534  
Old 07-08-2011, 11:25 PM
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Not sure if anyone saw this report on ABC: Princess Charlene & Prince Albert II Marriage May Be 'Cursed' (VIDEO)
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  #1535  
Old 07-09-2011, 12:10 AM
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I agree with those who are "defending" arranged marriages. In the 21st century, any kind of marriage that helps the two parties find some form of happiness should be accepted. This isn't a Disney movie where marrying for love is all you need; cause after a few years love can turn to indifference, hate, boredom etc.
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  #1536  
Old 07-09-2011, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Grandma828 View Post
In the discussion on fertility, we must remember that medical procedures or surrogate mothers would not be accepted in the Catholic Church. It is against doctrine.
What you say is very true although many Catholics ignore this or are unaware and they march right on to these illicit medical procedures.
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  #1537  
Old 07-09-2011, 02:35 AM
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The natural urge to breed is a normal way of life.
Even doctrine, encyclicals, edicts and the like cannot prevail against it.
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  #1538  
Old 07-09-2011, 04:03 AM
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So we are all starting to accept the possibility that this marriage was arranged?
If a marriage for love turns difficult in a few years, what can we expect from one without love, where the parties do not feel any physical attraction? Sorry but the kisses both at the civil and church ceremonies looked weird.

No Tyger, I´m not a romantic. I even dont believe in long term relationships. Almost all my friends in their 30´s are divorced. Marriage is a contract imposed by society. What is important is the bond between two people. So why not try to find love? In other cases, when love (or passion, or tendernes, not to be so much idealistic) is not the reason, marriage is a division or sharing of capital. And I cannot think what a nightmare is to live with someone, with time, you barely tolerate, not to mention the cheating factor here.

The reason I don´t like arranged marriages is one of the parties take advantages from the other, or both of them. It is a fake and interested union. It is affection what makes bonds last. This is what happened at last with Rainier and Grace. She was not the protagonist of a fairy tale, but she had the class not to be kept economically by any man. She didn´t wait in the shadow as if her support depended only on a "contract".
We are not in the Middle Ages when this was normal, it is not anymore. Unless you are too reluctant to become engaged like PA, or too greedy, like CW, this union would never have taken place. Because, let´s be honest: if he were a 9 to 5 office worker with a minimun wage, she wouldn´t even have looked at him.
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Old 07-09-2011, 05:03 AM
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Rosana, best you speak for yourself. I certainly do not concur that this was an arranged wedding. Whilst I do not believe in the notion of a fairytale union, no-one except the couple themselves know why they have chosen each other. However, the strong bond, affection and physical attraction between them is evident (IMO), since this relationship would not have gone this for for a lack of it. And to call Princess Charlene "greedy", you forget to add, is also merely your own personal opinion.
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  #1540  
Old 07-09-2011, 06:35 AM
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It wasn't an arranged marriage in the way Father Tucker "brokered" Grace and Rainier's engagement and wedding. There, a substantial dowry was required by the Kellys.
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