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  #621  
Old 04-17-2010, 09:33 AM
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Who's post are you referring to? I don't understand the part about children as an issue? Did I miss that somewhere? Also Mary Donaldson didn't go to Denmark until it was pretty much decided that there was going to be an engagement. And Mary was Mary not Charlene?
I was referring to royalsmarties remark about Charlene's age.

I guess we don't see eye to eye about Mary, Monaco and casinos.
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  #622  
Old 04-17-2010, 12:00 PM
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King Farouk played up his girlfriends when exiled in Italy and they were "burlesque" looking yet tiara aspirants.
Cw & Pa with a vague similarity to the aforementioned continue to extend their companionship publically into a long term relationship without a nuptial.
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  #623  
Old 04-17-2010, 02:42 PM
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There is no need to tear into Charlene with such negativity. Even if she and Prince Albert do get married she is not replacing Princess Grace. Life goes on and her son will choose the wife that best suits him. When Princess Grace was just Grace Kelley she was not considered the saint she in later life and especially after her death has become. Money, stylists and training have done wonders for women marrying up in the past and Charlene will be no different. Just look at the last few years re-creations.
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  #624  
Old 04-17-2010, 02:57 PM
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Charlene certainly looks good on these pics from the visit to London to attend the opening of the Princess Grace Exhibition.

Behind Albert, there is Madame Gallico, the Dame d'honneur......

Another pic shows Charlene air-kissing with Prince Edward's wife Sophie, Countess of Wessex, and a further image of PA holding Sophie's hand.

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  #625  
Old 04-17-2010, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post
Charlene certainly looks good on these pics from the visit to London to attend the opening of the Princess Grace Exhibition.

Behind Albert, there is Madame Gallico, the Dame d'honneur......

Another pic shows Charlene air-kissing with Prince Edward's wife Sophie, Countess of Wessex, and a further image of PA holding Sophie's hand.

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Your emphasise on London?
He may marry her he may not, we don't know anything for certain. It's just the same with the younger royals.
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  #626  
Old 04-17-2010, 05:23 PM
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I'm afraid I'm going to digress here. Yes Charlene's in her 30s but women can have children into their early 40s. I don't think there's any rush for a wedding and heck Charlene's living a dream life without any real accountability right now. That will change the moment their engagement is announced and Charlene will miraculously transform as did the former Miss Mary Donaldson of Tasmania into miss perfect, Crown Princess of Denmark. Prince Albert II also strikes me as a bit of a softie - maybe he doesn't rush things. He is also unorthodox as is plainly seen.
As to Monaco's royals being less respected - didn't they decend from pirates? Isn't the principality famed for it's casinos? Isn't gambling addictive and limitless? Doesn't gambling wreck the lives of addicts and their families? I'm not flaming, just suggesting that these issues strike cords with people.
This is oft-repeated error. The Grimaldis are not descended from "pirates". Monaco did become something a haven for them once upon a time but that was when the Grimaldis had been forced to relocate for a while. When they returned they cleaned the place out. I don't know where this accusation came from unless it was the naval forces of the Lord of Monaco fighting England during the 100 Years War, but they were certainly not pirates, they were regular forces in the employ of the King of France who made Lord Rainier a Grand Admiral.

As for as gambling wrecking lives and families -I don't buy it. Again, if other monarchies with histories of colonialism and imperialism are regarding the Grimaldis as the destroyer of lives because of gambling I would call that the grossest form of hypocrisy possible (without going into any further detail for fear of being smacked down).

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  #627  
Old 04-17-2010, 05:36 PM
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I totally agree with most of your posts . I don't think it's a question or morality as much as it is a question of integrity?

I think Albert has been playing it safe in not verbalizing or attaching a label into what this relationship actually is? Considering who he is involved with, I don't blame him there one bit, because I think it could come back and bite him in the a**? I'm not sure if I agree there is nothing deceptive going on? I would say I strongly suspect at least one of the parties involved has something deceptive going on, even if the other doesn't want to recognize it. I don't think it's the media that has a problem with the fact that Albert won't marry Charlene? Again I think it is the presumptuousness of Charlene to insert herself into this role or to allow herself to be inserted in this role by Albert that she knows is not rightfully hers. Right now I do think there is also a little resentment towards Abert here for his role in this. How many more women does Albert plan on doing the same thing with? How many casual girlfriends is the role going to be passed to, and will it hold any meaning anymore when or if Albert chooses to marry someone in the future after this?

I don't think people are looking at it that Albert shouldn't be able to have a grown up relationship, although hopefully that would be with another grown-up. It's Albert's public role and the seeming to exploit the relationship in the public that people find kind of offensive. I mean Charlene has a Facebook page where she very much seems to exploit her relationship with Albert and build herself up with some kind of official role in Monaco? It's very tacky and I think it's this kind of thing that people object to? It doesn't really lend much dignity to the role of Princess of Monaco if whoever the current girlfriend is at the time is occupying the chair before her? Is it a rotating position, where she just hands off the crown to the next girl at the end of her term? Do you get the problem people might have with this? I think Albert will see the wisdom in this later? How many women does Albert expect to be put in the same position? He made a mistake here, one that I hope he can rectify when he has the courage to finally dump Charlene and get on with his life.

There is a reason why some people think there are some things that should be reserved for his wife, including the media attention of the relationship that both Albert and Charlene seem to court? This is something also that could backfire, and if you're not even married then it really isn't worth it. I just think it is more gracious for anyone to try to keep their personal relationship private, especially members of Royalty or a Head of State. People want to expect more from them. I'm sure there is not any irritation with the press with Albert not marring Charlene? I agree it is not any of the presses business in spite of Albert and Charlene seeming to make it so? They may utilize all those photos of her some day when Albert might be less eager to have his image circulated with hers for one reason or another.

I would rather see Albert keep his mistress than to actually marry her and disgrace his mother's legacy with someone that has agreed to a financial arrangement.
I'm really lost here. What role has Charlene usurped that is not "rightfully" her own? Do you mean some have a "right" to be a princely girlfriend and some don't? I don't do the Facebook so I've never seen her page but I don't know how much she could be exploiting her relationship with him. Do you mean she's making money off of him? First of all I would doubt that, and secondly Albert would surely know about it and could stop it if it bothered him.

What I boil things down to I guess is what exactly makes some behavior "tacky" or lacking in "integrity"? When you cut through all the words I can't come up with anything but morals being at the bottom of it. Again, I don't see what precisely he is doing that is outrageous other than that he's not married and we assume having marital "benefits". And, as far as that goes, approve or not it's very common and Albert and Charlene are not the only ones doing it. She's not the Princess of Monaco, no one is claiming that she is and I suppose it just doesn't cause me undue stress that Albert takes his girlfriend to this or that function that others judge as being too above her station. Again, I just don't see what it is *exactly* that either of them are doing that should put people off. I'm not a member of the Charlene fan club by any means but she doesn't evoke anger or outrage from me either.

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  #628  
Old 04-17-2010, 10:30 PM
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The probabilities of marriage may yet be increasing with Pa taking Cw everywhere nowadays especially London and the Olympics previously etc.and with her being introduced to other royals. I do not see why they won't marry as a natural consequence of a devoted and enduring courtship.I do hope the best for them.
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  #629  
Old 04-17-2010, 11:52 PM
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if or when i think it does not matters any more no one seems to care outside this forums no one know who Charlene is she is not famous like other royal girl i try to get more info about the event non of the important newspaper have it only that link with the photo, to me i think in next ten years Monaco will lose all the glamorous that grace and his father left behind all that will be left will be ...... i cannot find the right word but anyway i hope the next generation try to rebuild what is left.
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  #630  
Old 04-17-2010, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by prisscess of may View Post
if or when i think it does not matters any more no one seems to care outside this forums no one know who Charlene is she is not famous like other royal girl i try to get more info about the event non of the important newspaper have it only that link with the photo, to me i think in next ten years Monaco will lose all the glamorous that grace and his father left behind all that will be left will be ...... i cannot find the right word but anyway i hope the next generation try to rebuild what is left.
YES I AGREE! thats why no one really cares.rebuild i doubt it will be as famous as it once was.When was the last time you say the monaco royals in People magazine 2005 maybe?
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  #631  
Old 04-18-2010, 06:12 AM
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So. this doesn't get too tedious I'm going to break this up. Part I

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I'm really lost here. What role has Charlene usurped that is not "rightfully" her own? Do you mean some have a "right" to be a princely girlfriend and some don't?
What is a "princely" girlfriend? I've never heard of that role? Maybe Albert should start calling her that instead of friend or companion. "Charlene Wittstock, Princely Girlfriend . Bones, I know you're laughing too . Charlene would probably love it.

Quote:
I don't do the Facebook so I've never seen her page but I don't know how much she could be exploiting her relationship with him. Do you mean she's making money off of him? First of all I would doubt that, and secondly Albert would surely know about it and could stop it "if it bothered him".
It obviously doesn't, but it should. I'll comment on both of these points later.

Quote:
What I boil things down to I guess is what exactly makes some behavior "tacky" or lacking in "integrity"?
Well the above for starters, read on.

Quote:
When you cut through all the words I can't come up with anything but morals being at the bottom of it. Again, I don't see what precisely he is doing that is outrageous other than that he's not married and we assume having marital "benefits".
I think you are not getting this, it is what accompanies the marital benefits, not the marital benefits themselves? I'll get to that first part in a minute, I still think that is less my problem? , but on the second point I actually agree with you there to some degree. And I think there are two different issues that are being discussed here, if I can call it that, because. I think there is something else going on here that I'm not a part of . Which if anyone was to go back and read my much earlier posts here, I'm afraid it's what I predicted would happen...Albert might find someone trying to back him into a corner if he wasn't careful? Charlene's used the press, media, any opportunity (the forums) to advance her agenda since she's met Albert.

I'll post more of my explanation tomorrow.
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  #632  
Old 04-18-2010, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sandsla View Post
So. this doesn't get too tedious I'm going to break this up. Part I



What is a "princely" girlfriend? I've never heard of that role? Maybe Albert should start calling her that instead of friend or companion. "Charlene Wittstock, Princely Girlfriend . Bones, I know you're laughing too . Charlene would probably love it.

It obviously doesn't, but it should. I'll comment on both of these points later.

Well the above for starters, read on.

I think you are not getting this, it is what accompanies the marital benefits, not the marital benefits themselves? I'll get to that first part in a minute, I still think that is less my problem? , but on the second point I actually agree with you there to some degree. And I think there are two different issues that are being discussed here, if I can call it that, because. I think there is something else going on here that I'm not a part of . Which if anyone was to go back and read my much earlier posts here, I'm afraid it's what I predicted would happen...Albert might find someone trying to back him into a corner if he wasn't careful? Charlene's used the press, media, any opportunity (the forums) to advance her agenda since she's met Albert.

I'll post more of my explanation tomorrow.
Maybe I'm dense but I don't feel like I got any additional information from your responses. I'm going to have to just leave this topic unless someone can tell me *exactly* what Albert and/or Charlene are doing that is so terrible. I can't respond to vague implications, I need specifics and from all I know of them there is nothing they are doing that would cause me any more outrage than what is done every day all over the world.

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  #633  
Old 04-18-2010, 09:54 PM
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YES I AGREE! thats why no one really cares.rebuild i doubt it will be as famous as it once was.When was the last time you say the monaco royals in People magazine 2005 maybe?
For which I expect the Grimaldis are eternally greatful.
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  #634  
Old 04-20-2010, 08:58 PM
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I'm really lost here. What role has Charlene usurped that is not "rightfully" her own? Do you mean some have a "right" to be a princely girlfriend and some don't? I don't do the Facebook so I've never seen her page but I don't know how much she could be exploiting her relationship with him. Do you mean she's making money off of him? First of all I would doubt that, and secondly Albert would surely know about it and could stop it if it bothered him.

What I boil things down to I guess is what exactly makes some behavior "tacky" or lacking in "integrity"? When you cut through all the words I can't come up with anything but morals being at the bottom of it. Again, I don't see what precisely he is doing that is outrageous other than that he's not married and we assume having marital "benefits". And, as far as that goes, approve or not it's very common and Albert and Charlene are not the only ones doing it. She's not the Princess of Monaco, no one is claiming that she is and I suppose it just doesn't cause me undue stress that Albert takes his girlfriend to this or that function that others judge as being too above her station. Again, I just don't see what it is *exactly* that either of them are doing that should put people off. I'm not a member of the Charlene fan club by any means but she doesn't evoke anger or outrage from me either.

Bones, I don't mean to be vague, I just didn't want to inundate the forum that day with my long posts..I had just posted a few lengthy post the day before so..... I'll add the rest of my reply to the above in a later post, but I have added this today to help explain my concern, which I realize should not be mine. Never the less.....

I just think while Albert may make some mistakes, I don't really think he's a bad person that's out to get anyone, or knowingly make someone suffer to get ahead, just for his own benefit and that is the difference between these two people for me?

First of all, it seemed that early on, from the very beginning Charlene was trying to elbow her way into Albert's life into a more formal position . She was using the press, or the much publicized relationship between them in the press to pressure Albert into more formal relationship. I believe that is why Albert felt a need to go on The Today Show "to counter" what some others were putting out there and trying to capitalize on? Early on I kept warning here how Charlene would try to play this card after she had embedded herself into Albert's life .. That is what you are seeing now! Albert's other women tried getting some sympathy in the same way, but the one smart thing Albert had going for him then, is that he was smart enough to keep the relationship private and "out of the press"!

How much more difficult do you think it would have been for Albert if Nicole had had the same treatment and exposure that he has given Charlene? Don't think Charlene doesn't know this too? Albert better be very careful because Charlene thinks her much publicized long presence there, gives her a leg up now, that the other women didn't have? And she has Albert's history to add to it, to help her along. I'm not sure what she might resort to in the end, but I wouldn't put a thing past her. If there's any question there for him about that, one would think that should be enough to end a relationship with someone . Right now Charlene seems to be just banking on their very long publicized relationship between them, played out in the press....adding to that every official looking photo-op of herself in regard to Monaco, everything she can pull out to help her back Albert into a corner. (IMO) She is trying to work up public sympathy in an effort to make some claim that Albert is a cad for not marrying her now!!! That is the one issue I was speaking of that has been going on right now and has been, ever since she came on the public scene, except for now it's amping up because of the length of time that Albert has actually dragged her around in the public eye, and in some situations where it appears more and more that she might have some official role there (which she has knowingly elbowed her way into). Her little ploy is starting to have the desired effect that she was hoping for? It's not too hard to figure out how much she's pushing that point on her Facebook page. It's not so much a personal Facebook page about her, as it is a public Facebook page to highlight her relationship with Albert, or rather The Prince of Monaco, and all her official looking photo-ops as if she really has some status there as a representative of Monaco? You honestly don't see the picture she is trying to paint and convey there? You don't think she has some motive there? And you can't see how she's trying to leverage Albert's Title to advance herself?

Armani did not hire her to be an Ambassador because of who Charlene is, but who she having a relationship with? If Charlene was a personality in her own right then that might be something different, but it is her connection to The Prince of Monaco that is being purchased, that is even more evident by the fact that Armani advertises on these forums. That is the other issue here people are having with Charlene and Albert?

The thing with these women trying to hark back to a different time when men were expected to do the right thing? Shotgun wedding, etc, or the idea that once they had had "Marital Relations" with a woman that they might be obligated to marry her, in spite of the fact that she she had consented to compromise herself or ruin her own reputation and even that of her entire family. These women were usually shipped off, and shunned from society. So even if some women today are still trying to play some version of this card, what's wrong with this picture is that the women then didn't consent to shacking up with a guy for years, take money or support from them, and then claim he was a cad for not marrying her, not even privately . Even Anne Boleyn knew the score back then, and that was many centuries ago when that was more more feasible?. These women are too much! Bones, my problem isn't that Albert is having an adult relationship with anyone, it is to the extent that he allows himself to be manipulated by it? It's about how he has sought to publicize his personal relationship with Charlene in the media. It's less about his sex life..
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  #635  
Old 04-20-2010, 09:15 PM
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For which I expect the Grimaldis are eternally greatful.
I would hope so!

That said, it's harder to understand exactly what Albert is actually trying to aspire to?
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  #636  
Old 04-21-2010, 11:36 AM
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I would hope so!

That said, it's harder to understand exactly what Albert is actually trying to aspire to?
I have to agree in part with your post #634 Sandsla- but you are forgetting that Pa can tell CW to go whenever it suits him and evidently he has not. Instead PA is taking CW everywhere and indeed she has embedded herself in his life with his consent.Where I have the difference of opinion with U is that Pa is the one commadeering the situation and CW is merely the companion until and when they ever marry or not.Yes CW has power by association and that is all [regarding her Armani stint]and yes it does to a certain part of the population appear declasse for a Head of State to take his unofficial companion everywhere- but it does not bother Albert and in the end his reputation is just as much at stake as is CW's.
I couldn't ever figure out any of Albert's aspirations or his modus operandi
so I won't try now.But yes I do understand innumerable concerns you may have on the ethics of the situation.But nowadays ethics are demodee and revisionism of the rules is what appears to prevail.
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Old 04-21-2010, 02:12 PM
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I have to agree in part with your post #634 Sandsla- but you are forgetting that Pa can tell CW to go whenever it suits him and evidently he has not. Instead PA is taking CW everywhere and indeed she has embedded herself in his life with his consent.Where I have the difference of opinion with U is that Pa is the one commadeering the situation and CW is merely the companion until and when they ever marry or not.Yes CW has power by association and that is all [regarding her Armani stint]and yes it does to a certain part of the population appear declasse for a Head of State to take his unofficial companion everywhere- but it does not bother Albert and in the end his reputation is just as much at stake as is CW's.
I couldn't ever figure out any of Albert's aspirations or his modus operandi
so I won't try now.But yes I do understand innumerable concerns you may have on the ethics of the situation.But nowadays ethics are demodee and revisionism of the rules is what appears to prevail.
I agree with you and what is reputation based on in a billionaires paradise place like Monaco anyway? I don't really consider these royals to feel the need to follow the same rules as other royal families in far less hedonistic cultures.

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  #638  
Old 04-21-2010, 02:34 PM
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Jaya...excellent post.

It seems that everyone is questioning Charlene's motives on why she wants to be with Albert...it could be the money, his personality, his position or his company. Its as if the reason/blame/owness for this relationship is on Charlene only. Did I miss something...is she making him date her? Parade her at every important social event in Monaco?

I would say besides what everyone thinks is the obvious (young blonde on his arm) why is Albert with Charlene? Surely he can date her without making her an obvious part of his life? Maybe he just enjoys her company?

People have been knocking this girl/and this relationship around for what at least THREE years now?
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Old 04-21-2010, 02:43 PM
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I think three years just about covers it.
I'm sure if Charlene was so manipulative, using everything she could to advance her career, and only being on Alberts arm for superficial reasons. He would've realised by now. And if she didn't really love him, he would've realised that aswell.
But they're still together, and as long as PA seems happy, why should we complain?
It's not like what we say is going to impact their relationship.
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  #640  
Old 04-21-2010, 04:06 PM
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I think that the bond between two Olympic competitors ought not to be forgotten in the analysis of their relationship.

Both are retired from competitive sport, something they may feel sad about.

Apart from the Olympic angle, they attend a lot of sports-related events, and they hardly ever miss one.
On these occasions the "pressure" is less than at more formal ones.
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