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  #601  
Old 04-16-2010, 12:12 PM
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This thread is veering off topic. The topic of this thread is not British, Beligium or Norwegian Royal Families but the relationship of Albert and Charlene.

Let's also stop the speculating about how House of Grimaldi is viewed by other royal families. Unless someone has first hand knowledge, let's not state your personal opinion as of that as it is the opinion of the House of Windsor.

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  #602  
Old 04-16-2010, 12:19 PM
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IMO I think that what irks or niggles people is that their relationship operates in limbo of sorts. With the other princes (Frederik, Felipe, Haakon etc ) when they dated their wives, the girlfriends were kept in the background they didn't attend formal functions or publicly meet heads of state or other royals (or not that I was aware of) until they were engaged or married. Its the whole concept that Charlene appears not to have a job yet she is often seen in the "princess" role without being one. Maybe we are more old-fashioned than we realise and if Albert had just kept her in the background with only an occasional appearance we would not be so irritated by the pair. Unfortunately appearances do matter and Albert is the head of a country, so something just doesn't gel with these two or we obviously wouldn't feel the need to discuss them so often.

I don't know why this pair cause so much discussion maybe it is because they haven't lived up to the whole fairy story that we expect of princes and princesses. All my own opinion of course.

I agree with you when princes bring out their gfs and have them on their arms for 3 and 4 years then everyone gets irritated
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  #603  
Old 04-16-2010, 03:39 PM
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I think it's fair to say that the other princes' girlfriends had jobs (even if it was arranged) before the engagement was announced. For example, CP Mary of Denmark worked in Denmark with a company who has close ties to the Danish Royal Family; Maxima was transferred from the NY office to the Belgian (I think) office of the same company she had been working when she met the Prince of Orange. Unless the paps have not dug it out, Charlene cannot account for a day job other than being an arm candy. But then again, maybe Prince Albert told her she didn't have to work.
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  #604  
Old 04-16-2010, 03:53 PM
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I guess I just don't see the irritation of the press as genuine or motivated for reasons of traditional moral values -I think they just get annoyed that there's no wedding to cover and that Albert is not letting them dictate the course of his relationship. He and Charlene are doing things their own way, in their own time and not looking for the approval of anyone else. Even coming from someone with a very traditional outlook on the world, I don't see any justifiable reason for irritation with the Prince and his girlfriend. They're not hurting anyone, they're not being deceptive about anything. I hold marriage in very high regard (despite being a confirmed bachelor myself) but unless they are both ready, willing and committed to entering into it I think it would be a mistake to do so. Better that there be no marriage than yet another failed one for the house of Monaco.

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  #605  
Old 04-16-2010, 05:33 PM
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I guess I just don't see the irritation of the press as genuine or motivated for reasons of traditional moral values -I think they just get annoyed that there's no wedding to cover and that Albert is not letting them dictate the course of his relationship. He and Charlene are doing things their own way, in their own time and not looking for the approval of anyone else. Even coming from someone with a very traditional outlook on the world, I don't see any justifiable reason for irritation with the Prince and his girlfriend. They're not hurting anyone, they're not being deceptive about anything. I hold marriage in very high regard (despite being a confirmed bachelor myself) but unless they are both ready, willing and committed to entering into it I think it would be a mistake to do so. Better that there be no marriage than yet another failed one for the house of Monaco.
You know I've thought about it and I agree thats albert isn't the marrying type and his father doesn't see relationships in a traditional way and when pushed it always turns bad.I not really sitting on needle for a wedding because Char style isn't exciting enough for me noo offense.BTW Ithought you were female
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  #606  
Old 04-16-2010, 08:09 PM
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IMO I think that what irks or niggles people is that their relationship operates in limbo of sorts. With the other princes (Frederik, Felipe, Haakon etc ) when they dated their wives, the girlfriends were kept in the background they didn't attend formal functions or publicly meet heads of state or other royals (or not that I was aware of) until they were engaged or married..
I can think of an example of an heir bringing a then girlfriend to a very public royal event where she undoubtably met many of her boyfriends royal relations. Prince Felipe brought Eva Sannum to the wedding of Haakon and Mette Marit. It was memorable because of a very striking barely there blue gown she wore. None of the royal guests seemed to flee in horror at her attendance.
I thought Charlene looked very nicely put together at the V & A event and dropped the Countess a nice little bob when greeting her, remembering that curtsies are not required and perhaps not even expected from a citizen of a country of which HM is not sovereign. Given that Sophie lived with Edward at Buck House for a few years without benefit of clergy I doubt she found the meeting shocking. In fact I doubt anyone living in the 21st century would find it shocking.
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  #607  
Old 04-16-2010, 08:13 PM
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I can think of an example of an heir bringing a then girlfriend to a very public royal event where she undoubtably met many of her boyfriends royal relations. Prince Felipe brought Isabel Santorum to the wedding of Haakon and Mette Marit. It was memorable because of a very striking barely there blue gown she wore. None of the royal guests seemed to flee in horror at her attendance.
I thought Charlene looked very nicely put together at the V & A event and dropped the Countess a nice little bob when greeting her, remembering that curtsies are not required and perhaps not even expected from a citizen of a country of which HM is not sovereign. Given that Sophie lived with Edward at Buck House for a few years without benefit of clergy I doubt she found the meeting shocking. In fact I doubt anyone living in the 21st century would find it shocking.
i think she meant heirs don't bring women that they are going to marry to events into they are enaged
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  #608  
Old 04-16-2010, 08:28 PM
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Felipe did not bring Eva Sanum at the Norvegian wedding, she came on her own and invited by the Norvegian couple
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  #609  
Old 04-16-2010, 09:00 PM
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Felipe did not bring Eva Sanum at the Norvegian wedding, she came on her own and invited by the Norvegian couple
Perhaps, but this is how it was reported " During the waltz, Crown Prince Felipe of Spain and his girlfriend Eva Sannum were spotted together on an official occasion for the first time."
At todays events in Denmark we see the example of the Queens nephew, HSH Prince Gustav zu Sayn Wittgenstein Berlberg, in attendance with his long time companion Carina Axelson (wearing a diamond tiara), and well as his pregnant sister Nathalia with her now fiance. It would seem that todays 21st century royal families are pretty worldly and open mnded about peoples relationships and how they chose to live their lives.
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  #610  
Old 04-17-2010, 01:51 AM
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The Princely family has an allowance, however the money is collected (there might not be income taxes but the State has other sources of income on which the Prince and his family live).
My point is that I don't have any moral issue with people having relationships out of wedlock, but Charlene should not be payed to be the Sovereign's girlfriend, she should have her own job and life. If she lives on Albert, she should have an official role, even if not necessarily of wife and fulfill some kind of public duty in an official capacity. Being supported to be someone's "+1" does not qualify as a dignified way of life in my book. And just to be clear, I think the "blame" lies as much on Albert who put her in this position, as on Charlene.
Exactly! Well said! Both posts. Although I seriously don't think Charlene should be given any kind of official role there , one more reason for her to feel she deserves Grace's title or to stay there indefinitely. I don't think Albert wants to make that kind of commitment to her and be stuck with her forever, even if for the time being he is sticking everyone else with her. She needs to be able to make a clean exit if Albert ever wants to have any kind of a different future with another woman or a wife. Can you imagine that ever happening with Charlene there in Monaco in some official capacity?

Also Charlene put herself in that role as much as Albert and she has aspired to be in the position she is in.now. I agree Albert should have known better, but men can be very dumb and I don't mean to excuse his own role in any way, because he is the one that holds the title and responsibility and he should be interested in protecting his own role and image there as well as his families history, but Albert isn't the one taking the money. Charlene is an Adult and responsible for herself and her own choices she has made.

I have no problem with any kind of relationship Albert wants to have as long as he kept his private life private, being a public person this is what most normal people try to achieve, and more importantly Albert has a role that is meant to be much respected, as well as the role as his wife. My objection is the imposing of Charlene into a role that is not hers! Charlene has done much herself to advance herself into that role knowing she has no right to it. She is presumptuous. This girl really thinks she can be respected by elbowing herself in to this role after accepting money and being kept so publicly for all these years. She actually boast about it? I cannot sympathize with Charlene--she is a grown woman and she should know what is right for her to do and what isn't--it is her reputation to lose, she has no position there and hopefully never will. IMO I think she is trying to elbow herself in even further in an effort to force Albert into marrying her and giving her a title, his mother's title and that is what so many of these posts here are all about!

I'm sorry but it's my opinion that this girl has had only one objective all along and she didn't care how she was going to achieve it or how much manipulation of people it would take. It's kind of hard to support someone like this or sympathize with them.

Charlene doesn't have a job because she has never aspired to have one!
If she would put the same effort into looking like a grown up and attributing something to her own support as she did into trying to manipulate Albert into giving her that elusive Princess Title,.as if it should be something that could be bartered?

Why should Albert or Monaco be responsible for finding this woman a job? What does she do all day and for all these years besides live out of everyone's pockets? How did she think she was going to live when she chose to move to Monaco? How did she expect that she was going to be perceived there? How did she expect she was going to support herself, she's not Albert's wife? What did she expect to happen when the relationship ended? This girl is so very presumptuous in every way. IMO she's nothing but an opportunist and seeing her prance around Monaco and rubbing her situation in the people of Monaco's face probably does not sit well.with anyone. Albert's wife would at least assume some responsibilities and I don't mean attaching her name to one of his sister's charities which is probably the extent of Charlene's efforts or she would have been making an effort to prepare herself better (just in case). Charlene won't even make the effort for herself, how can anyone be expected to take this woman serious? The fact is she is publicly kept and paid and has admitted this in published accounts. This doesn't embarrass her??? It shouldn't make a difference who she is dating or how rich they are, it's wrong and her own vanity, greed, and laziness has compromised her, no matter what Albert has been willing to do for her? Or even what he does for her in the future, because it's a fact that will never change. I can't believe she thinks anyone would accept her now in the role of Albert's wife after that. There is a difference between helping someone out a little when they are going through a rough time and someone that is happy to agree to being a commodity . Albert doesn't even seem that wild about her, if he was he would have married her long ago and she knows that, but she still hangs there, so I really don't see the purpose of it all?
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  #611  
Old 04-17-2010, 02:24 AM
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I'm afraid I'm going to digress here. Yes Charlene's in her 30s but women can have children into their early 40s. I don't think there's any rush for a wedding and heck Charlene's living a dream life without any real accountability right now. That will change the moment their engagement is announced and Charlene will miraculously transform as did the former Miss Mary Donaldson of Tasmania into miss perfect, Crown Princess of Denmark. Prince Albert II also strikes me as a bit of a softie - maybe he doesn't rush things. He is also unorthodox as is plainly seen.
As to Monaco's royals being less respected - didn't they decend from pirates? Isn't the principality famed for it's casinos? Isn't gambling addictive and limitless? Doesn't gambling wreck the lives of addicts and their families? I'm not flaming, just suggesting that these issues strike cords with people.
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  #612  
Old 04-17-2010, 03:15 AM
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I guess I just don't see the irritation of the press as genuine or motivated for reasons of traditional moral values -I think they just get annoyed that there's no wedding to cover and that Albert is not letting them dictate the course of his relationship. He and Charlene are doing things their own way, in their own time and not looking for the approval of anyone else. Even coming from someone with a very traditional outlook on the world, I don't see any justifiable reason for irritation with the Prince and his girlfriend. They're not hurting anyone, they're not being deceptive about anything. I hold marriage in very high regard (despite being a confirmed bachelor myself) but unless they are both ready, willing and committed to entering into it I think it would be a mistake to do so. Better that there be no marriage than yet another failed one for the house of Monaco.


I totally agree with most of your posts . I don't think it's a question or morality as much as it is a question of integrity?

I think Albert has been playing it safe in not verbalizing or attaching a label into what this relationship actually is? Considering who he is involved with, I don't blame him there one bit, because I think it could come back and bite him in the a**? I'm not sure if I agree there is nothing deceptive going on? I would say I strongly suspect at least one of the parties involved has something deceptive going on, even if the other doesn't want to recognize it. I don't think it's the media that has a problem with the fact that Albert won't marry Charlene? Again I think it is the presumptuousness of Charlene to insert herself into this role or to allow herself to be inserted in this role by Albert that she knows is not rightfully hers. Right now I do think there is also a little resentment towards Abert here for his role in this. How many more women does Albert plan on doing the same thing with? How many casual girlfriends is the role going to be passed to, and will it hold any meaning anymore when or if Albert chooses to marry someone in the future after this?

I don't think people are looking at it that Albert shouldn't be able to have a grown up relationship, although hopefully that would be with another grown-up. It's Albert's public role and the seeming to exploit the relationship in the public that people find kind of offensive. I mean Charlene has a Facebook page where she very much seems to exploit her relationship with Albert and build herself up with some kind of official role in Monaco? It's very tacky and I think it's this kind of thing that people object to? It doesn't really lend much dignity to the role of Princess of Monaco if whoever the current girlfriend is at the time is occupying the chair before her? Is it a rotating position, where she just hands off the crown to the next girl at the end of her term? Do you get the problem people might have with this? I think Albert will see the wisdom in this later? How many women does Albert expect to be put in the same position? He made a mistake here, one that I hope he can rectify when he has the courage to finally dump Charlene and get on with his life.

There is a reason why some people think there are some things that should be reserved for his wife, including the media attention of the relationship that both Albert and Charlene seem to court? This is something also that could backfire, and if you're not even married then it really isn't worth it. I just think it is more gracious for anyone to try to keep their personal relationship private, especially members of Royalty or a Head of State. People want to expect more from them. I'm sure there is not any irritation with the press with Albert not marring Charlene? I agree it is not any of the presses business in spite of Albert and Charlene seeming to make it so? They may utilize all those photos of her some day when Albert might be less eager to have his image circulated with hers for one reason or another.

I would rather see Albert keep his mistress than to actually marry her and disgrace his mother's legacy with someone that has agreed to a financial arrangement.
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Old 04-17-2010, 03:47 AM
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I'm afraid I'm going to digress here. Yes Charlene's in her 30s but women can have children into their early 40s. I don't think there's any rush for a wedding and heck Charlene's living a dream life without any real accountability right now. That will change the moment their engagement is announced and Charlene will miraculously transform as did the former Miss Mary Donaldson of Tasmania into miss perfect, Crown Princess of Denmark. Prince Albert II also strikes me as a bit of a softie - maybe he doesn't rush things. He is also unorthodox as is plainly seen.
As to Monaco's royals being less respected - didn't they decend from pirates? Isn't the principality famed for it's casinos? Isn't gambling addictive and limitless? Doesn't gambling wreck the lives of addicts and their families? I'm not flaming, just suggesting that these issues strike cords with people.
Who's post are you referring to? I don't understand the part about children as an issue? Did I miss that somewhere? Also Mary Donaldson didn't go to Denmark until it was pretty much decided that there was going to be an engagement. And Mary was Mary not Charlene? Tell me what you think is going to happen that is is going to miraculously transform Charlene suddenly, she has had much longer than anyone else with all the resources and opportunity in the world? She's already had four or five years with Albert living in Monaco without assuming one bit of responsibility or accountability for herself and we haven't seen a transformation from her yet? That is because Charlene is Charlene and and she is nothing like Mary. I don't think she can get a soul transplant, if she could, that's where she should have started? Albert being too much of a a softee with the wrong woman is why he ends up with such problems?

I seriously don't think Charlene has prepared herself for much responsibility or accountability or that she expects it. She never has accepted accountability for herself before, she certaninly isn't going to if she was a :"princess"? I think we can agree that Charlene doesn't seem to like to work or to extend herself much. I think you are being rather optimistic, and I bet Albert told himself the same thing, "Once I get her to Monaco and throw some money at her it will all change." "She will magically morph into another person with a heart and a brain" Has it? She is who she is, Albert better like her as she is as a woman who feels entitled in life and will be trying to pull rank on everyone including him, because it's only going to get that much worse. Charlene will be Albert's worse nightmare if he was ever to actually marry her--no punch could be bigger than the one she could give him as his wife. Why do think she is so eager to marry him? She knows the kind of leverage it would give her and she knows what a softee Albert is? He has the history to prove it. Albert would be her doormat if he lets it happen. I hope he holds out for someone that will want to restore some self respect to him after being hammered by all these creepy women for so long.

I'm sorry but the bit about the Casino is a little nonsensical to me? It's a very small part of Monaco's income, and it's its part of Monaco's history and tradition and I could ramble on more about it all and ask how it is any different than any other country, since most have some form of gambling somewhere? I think we can say that the world of banking and finance has been a bigger gamble? Every Royal family has it's own creative history and breaks in continuity. I don't see any real difference with Monaco? I think it's size is the only thing that might marginalize it a bit and so they make up for it--they have been pretty successful in giving it a notable identity.
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Old 04-17-2010, 03:50 AM
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Exactly! Well said! Both posts. Although I seriously don't think Charlene should be given any kind of official role there , one more reason for her to feel she deserves Grace's title or to stay there indefinitely. I don't think Albert wants to make that kind of commitment to her and be stuck with her forever, even if for the time being he is sticking everyone else with her. She needs to be able to make a clean exit if Albert ever wants to have any kind of a different future with another woman or a wife. Can you imagine that ever happening with Charlene there in Monaco in some official capacity?

Also Charlene put herself in that role as much as Albert and she has aspired to be in the position she is in.now. I agree Albert should have known better, but men can be very dumb and I don't mean to excuse his own role in any way, because he is the one that holds the title and responsibility and he should be interested in protecting his own role and image there as well as his families history, but Albert isn't the one taking the money. Charlene is an Adult and responsible for herself and her own choices she has made.

I have no problem with any kind of relationship Albert wants to have as long as he kept his private life private, being a public person this is what most normal people try to achieve, and more importantly Albert has a role that is meant to be much respected, as well as the role as his wife. My objection is the imposing of Charlene into a role that is not hers! Charlene has done much herself to advance herself into that role knowing she has no right to it. She is presumptuous. This girl really thinks she can be respected by elbowing herself in to this role after accepting money and being kept so publicly for all these years. She actually boast about it? I cannot sympathize with Charlene--she is a grown woman and she should know what is right for her to do and what isn't--it is her reputation to lose, she has no position there and hopefully never will. IMO I think she is trying to elbow herself in even further in an effort to force Albert into marrying her and giving her a title, his mother's title and that is what so many of these posts here are all about!

I'm sorry but it's my opinion that this girl has had only one objective all along and she didn't care how she was going to achieve it or how much manipulation of people it would take. It's kind of hard to support someone like this or sympathize with them.

Charlene doesn't have a job because she has never aspired to have one! If she would put the same effort into looking like a grown up and attributing something to her own support as she did into trying to manipulate Albert into giving her that elusive Princess Title,.as if it should be something that could be bartered?

Why should Albert or Monaco be responsible for finding this woman a job? What does she do all day and for all these years besides live out of everyone's pockets? How did she think she was going to live when she chose to move to Monaco? How did she expect that she was going to be perceived there? How did she expect she was going to support herself, she's not Albert's wife? What did she expect to happen when the relationship ended? This girl is so very presumptuous in every way. IMO she's nothing but an opportunist and seeing her prance around Monaco and rubbing her situation in the people of Monaco's face probably does not sit well.with anyone. Albert's wife would at least assume some responsibilities and I don't mean attaching her name to one of his sister's charities which is probably the extent of Charlene's efforts or she would have been making an effort to prepare herself better (just in case). Charlene won't even make the effort for herself, how can anyone be expected to take this woman serious? The fact is she is publicly kept and paid and has admitted this in published accounts. This doesn't embarrass her??? It shouldn't make a difference who she is dating or how rich they are, it's wrong and her own vanity, greed, and laziness has compromised her, no matter what Albert has been willing to do for her? Or even what he does for her in the future, because it's a fact that will never change. I can't believe she thinks anyone would accept her now in the role of Albert's wife after that. There is a difference between helping someone out a little when they are going through a rough time and someone that is happy to agree to being a commodity . Albert doesn't even seem that wild about her, if he was he would have married her long ago and she knows that, but she still hangs there, so I really don't see the purpose of it all?
Hmmmm I was thinking Albert is just using her to stop use fromtalking about marriage and him being gay and I agree she's not going to get Albert to marry her but hey maybe they got some kind of agreement and i don't see her fitting with Monaco or really Albert.Thought just came to mind maybe Albert is tricking us into paying attendtion to him and Char while he secrectly dating his real love
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Old 04-17-2010, 03:52 AM
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As to Monaco's royals being less respected - didn't they decend from pirates? Isn't the principality famed for it's casinos? Isn't gambling addictive and limitless? Doesn't gambling wreck the lives of addicts and their families? I'm not flaming, just suggesting that these issues strike cords with people.
I agree with this statement above and isn't charlene in her late 30s ???
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Old 04-17-2010, 03:58 AM
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Who's post are you referring to? I don't understand the part about children as an issue? Did I miss that somewhere? Also Mary Donaldson didn't go to Denmark until it was pretty much decided that there was going to be an engagement. And Mary was Mary not Charlene? Tell me what you think is going to happen that is is going to miraculously transform Charlene suddenly, she has had much longer than anyone else with all the resources and opportunity in the world? She's already had four or five years with Albert living in Monaco without assuming one bit of responsibility or accountability for herself and we haven't seen a transformation from her yet? That is because Charlene is Charlene and and she is nothing like Mary. I don't think she can get a soul transplant, if she could, that's where she should have started? Albert being too much of a a softee with the wrong woman is why he ends up with such problems?

I seriously don't think Charlene has prepared herself for much responsibility or accountability or that she expects it. She never has accepted accountability for herself? I think we can agree that Charlene doesn't seem to like to work or extend herself much. I think you are being rather optimistic, and I bet Albert told himself the same thing, "Once I get her to Monaco and throw some money at her it will all change." "She will magically morph into another person with a heart and a brain" Has it? She is who she is, Albert better like her as she is as a woman who feels feeling and trying to pull rank on everyone including him, because it's only going to get that much worse. Charlene will be Albert's worse nightmare if he was ever to actually marry her--no punch could be bigger than the one she could give him as his wife. Why do think she is so eager to marry him? She knows the kind of leverage it would give her and she knows what a softee Albert is? He has the history to prove it. Albert would be her doormat if he lets it happen. I hope he holds out for someone that will want to restore some self respect to him after being hammered by all these creepy women for so long.
I agree with both of your post Mary is nothing like char she got that thing char doesn't that grace kelly thing,princess di thing,char seems like a hollywood model dating a rich man type and she would not fit in the role Grace once had and i bet albert knows that
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Old 04-17-2010, 06:40 AM
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Actually, she's in her early thirties. She just turned 32 a couple of months ago. I have to say though, I think Charlene looks a little older than her age. I'm not trying to be derogatory here, just stating an opinion. I think it's those circles under her eyes. They age her IMO.
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Old 04-17-2010, 07:08 AM
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Considering that none of us have ever met CW, let alone PA, is it right for any of us to make any assumptions or prescriptions about the two of them ??

I don't think so.
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Old 04-17-2010, 07:12 AM
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Also Mary Donaldson didn't go to Denmark until it was pretty much decided that there was going to be an engagement.
Mary moved to Denmark around the middle of 2002, after working in France. They didn't get engaged until October 2003.

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I agree with both of your post Mary is nothing like char she got that thing char doesn't that grace kelly thing,princess di thing,char seems like a hollywood model dating a rich man type and she would not fit in the role Grace once had and i bet albert knows that
Her name is Charlene not Char.

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Considering that none of us have ever met CW, let alone PA, is it right for any of us to make any assumptions or prescriptions about the two of them ??

I don't think so.
Quite true, but thats not going to stop people.
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Old 04-17-2010, 09:10 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renata4711 View Post
Considering that none of us have ever met CW, let alone PA, is it right for any of us to make any assumptions or prescriptions about the two of them ??

I don't think so.
Well my sister met him and said he's a nice guy. Does that count? I also consider prescriptions as part and parcel of being a high profile public figure.
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