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View Poll Results: Do you believe Albert is the father of Jazmin?
Albert is the father of Jazmin 29 32.95%
Albert is not the father of Jazmin 31 35.23%
Don't know/undecided 28 31.82%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 09-13-2005, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
This is a great point. I must have missed it somehow when Dreed pointed this out. But........ right after you said, Lady Mac made an equally fine point, albeit one which raised a serious question in my mind. She pointed out that PA may have done a DNA test but kept it private. If he did this, then the test must have been positive and he is the father because why else would Tamara continue to say he is? If a test had been done and it was negative, she'd have to say she had been wrong, or she'd be lying. So either someone is lying, and it might actually be Albert who is lying, or there was never a DNA test, private or otherwise. Lying about it doesn't seem consistent with Albert's publicly-known character, but there may be other factors, unknown to us, which would induce him to lie.


If PA had done a test, and it turned out negative, we would all know about it. Just like the Bea case. He is most certainly the father of Jazmin and I do not think he would have claimed Alexandre had NC had not done what she did or if he was not backed into a legal corner by the fact that she, unlike TR, is a french citizen. And she is protected by French law. The same law under which PA lives.

In additon both of these women were married when he had relationships with him and all equally responsible. It's no less wrong for a single person to engage with a married person than vice versa. This being so, he cannot claim any moral authority.

Gosh, I cannot imagine if the father of my child denied paternity, it's like calling a woman a whore. Like saying she doesnt know who the father is. After this happens, any woman is going to keep the heat on. And who can blame her? It's what, 13 years later, she hasn't let up, and he cannot definatively say. " I am not the father. And here's the test to prove it." He said
"I don't know of any others that could be true,"


This is a far cry from denial and is a statement that includes dubious and vague language. I really want to like PA. And on some levels I really do. He has, though not particularly attractive, a great smile. He really does. I also very much like his voice. What a great voice. But stuff like this just turns me off and leaves me perplexed.
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  #102  
Old 09-13-2005, 01:40 AM
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I feel sorry for Jazmin. She's a preteen now and knows what is going on around her. I hope it is not screwing her up emotionally.
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  #103  
Old 09-13-2005, 02:10 AM
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Wow, I want to like Albert to. And I do like him. And he does have a great smile. But I guess he is a victim of his inherited wealth and power, as much as any heir is. He has had rather too much of a great thing, too much money, too much power, and has never known anything different. I wrote a research paper about the "culture of inherited wealth" for my writing and research class last year, and I explored this very problem. It seems to me that Albert is like the victims that I studied in this paper. He does not have to suffer real consequences because he has enough power and money to cover his tracks and make him look good. He also has a good smile to accompany his "shrug it off" attitude. When you are born into those kinds of circumstances, it's very hard not to be selfish or self-centered. In a way, Albert does come across very childish. I don't think Rainier would be very proud of the Albert we saw in that interview. Rainier was a great man, a great prince, a great businessman. He would never have made the co-dependent statements that Albert made in that NY Times interview. Albert, I like you very much; that's why I come to this forum to talk about you and that's why I hope you learn to be strong in the way you were shown by your great father.
  #104  
Old 09-13-2005, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
Wow, I want to like Albert to. And I do like him. And he does have a great smile. But I guess he is a victim of his inherited wealth and power, as much as any heir is. He has had rather too much of a great thing, too much money, too much power, and has never known anything different. I wrote a research paper about the "culture of inherited wealth" for my writing and research class last year, and I explored this very problem. It seems to me that Albert is like the victims that I studied in this paper. He does not have to suffer real consequences because he has enough power and money to cover his tracks and make him look good. He also has a good smile to accompany his "shrug it off" attitude. When you are born into those kinds of circumstances, it's very hard not to be selfish or self-centered. In a way, Albert does come across very childish. I don't think Rainier would be very proud of the Albert we saw in that interview. Rainier was a great man, a great prince, a great businessman. He would never have made the co-dependent statements that Albert made in that NY Times interview. Albert, I like you very much; that's why I come to this forum to talk about you and that's why I hope you learn to be strong in the way you were shown by your great father.
What you said makes sense. I'm not saying that Albert is spoiled, self-centered or selfish. I like him and the rest of the family a lot. I just recalled that Princess Grace tried very hard not to spoil Albert and Caroline (It was different with Stephanie, being a miracle baby, as her parents declared that she can have anything and everything she wants) because, as children born royal, they will always have this sense of entitlement and that she didn't want Albert and Caroline to think they can have anything they desire or do anything they want.
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  #105  
Old 09-13-2005, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
Wow, I want to like Albert to. And I do like him. And he does have a great smile. But I guess he is a victim of his inherited wealth and power, as much as any heir is. He has had rather too much of a great thing, too much money, too much power, and has never known anything different. I wrote a research paper about the "culture of inherited wealth" for my writing and research class last year, and I explored this very problem. It seems to me that Albert is like the victims that I studied in this paper. He does not have to suffer real consequences because he has enough power and money to cover his tracks and make him look good. He also has a good smile to accompany his "shrug it off" attitude. When you are born into those kinds of circumstances, it's very hard not to be selfish or self-centered. In a way, Albert does come across very childish. I don't think Rainier would be very proud of the Albert we saw in that interview. Rainier was a great man, a great prince, a great businessman. He would never have made the co-dependent statements that Albert made in that NY Times interview. Albert, I like you very much; that's why I come to this forum to talk about you and that's why I hope you learn to be strong in the way you were shown by your great father.
Your post I feel is completly true. This time all of the money and power couldn't protect him from Nicole's paternity suit and eventually it won't if Jazmin requests DNA. From what I can see this is the first time that Albert has had to accept responsibility for his actions and has done so extremely poorly. If Jazmin is his daughter then Tamara and Jazmin have suffered immensly for the last 13 years. I do think that the easiest way for the Grimaldi's to dispute the DNA claim was to avoid it by having it thrown out of court & so that's what they did, something that thier educated & high paid lawyers found easy enough to do. What was Tamara, a mere waitress and no competition for the Grimaldi's to do? All she could do, wait! I am only hoping that Albert has learned from his mistakes paternity wise with Nicole. Not all women will tolerate this behaviour.
  #106  
Old 09-13-2005, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leahteresa

If PA had done a test, and it turned out negative, we would all know about it. Just like the Bea case. He is most certainly the father of Jazmin and I do not think he would have claimed Alexandre had NC had not done what she did or if he was not backed into a legal corner by the fact that she, unlike TR, is a french citizen. And she is protected by French law. The same law under which PA lives.

In additon both of these women were married when he had relationships with him and all equally responsible. It's no less wrong for a single person to engage with a married person than vice versa. This being so, he cannot claim any moral authority.

Gosh, I cannot imagine if the father of my child denied paternity, it's like calling a woman a whore. Like saying she doesnt know who the father is. After this happens, any woman is going to keep the heat on. And who can blame her? It's what, 13 years later, she hasn't let up, and he cannot definatively say. " I am not the father. And here's the test to prove it." He said
"I don't know of any others that could be true,"


This is a far cry from denial and is a statement that includes dubious and vague language. I really want to like PA. And on some levels I really do. He has, though not particularly attractive, a great smile. He really does. I also very much like his voice. What a great voice. But stuff like this just turns me off and leaves me perplexed.
I will disagree with you in that Albert had already signed papers acknowledging paternity within a few weeks of birth. The request and Nicole agreed to it was they would not be filed until after his fathers death and the end of the mourning period. He had every intending of acknowledging Alexandre at the end of that period. Once the documents were signed it became a legally binding agreement which Nicole breached with her Paris March interview demanding what she had agreed to. Cut and dried he had acknowledged his son privately Nicole wanted the public to know due to Tamara's old claim and the press causing such a stink over it. I will say more later I have to run some errands not sure when I will get back to it.
  #107  
Old 09-13-2005, 11:05 AM
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In my opinion the idea that Prince Albert should submit himself to a DNA test every time a woman he had casual sex with claims she had his baby is ridiculous. The idea that he would have to make the test results public is even more ridiculous.
  #108  
Old 09-13-2005, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess BellyFlop
In my opinion the idea that Prince Albert should submit himself to a DNA test every time a woman he had casual sex with claims she had his baby is ridiculous. The idea that he would have to make the test results public is even more ridiculous.
I wasn't signed off yet and had to respond to your post. I adore your opinion and what I said a long time ago. If he did give up a sample each time he might as well stay in the lab chair and connected to an IV.

Attention KMart shoppers blue light special Albert II of Monaco DNA samples in isle 5. All wanting a chunk of the billion be orderly and form a single line.
  #109  
Old 09-13-2005, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess BellyFlop
In my opinion the idea that Prince Albert should submit himself to a DNA test every time a woman he had casual sex with claims she had his baby is ridiculous. The idea that he would have to make the test results public is even more ridiculous.
You are right there, but unfortunately sometimes for public figures the situation quickly becomes uncontrolled and then the cookie just crumbles that way.
  #110  
Old 09-13-2005, 01:33 PM
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Good one, Lady M! The more I think about the whole thing the more I decide that I am definitely undecided. :) Actually, the more I think about it, I realize it is just simply none of the public's business at all. I guess everything about being rich and famous is not so wonderful. (Meaning for example that energizer bunny that just isn't going away.)
  #111  
Old 09-13-2005, 03:28 PM
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I think it would be Monaco's/France's buisness if he had children inside or outside of marraige. I think if the people of Monaco accept & support thier reiging prince and if Albert wants thier support an explanation of some sort should be considered for the Monaco's public. The people look to Albert as an example.
  #112  
Old 09-13-2005, 04:02 PM
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I also think it's France's & Monaco's business if he has children outside of marriage because of all the legal problems it can cause for the family -- the issue of money and inheritance and who has access to it and who controls all of those assets. That is a huge issue -- maybe if Albert really is Jazmine's father (just speculation only) and the law in Monaco was only changed a few years ago to prevent illigitimate children from getting everything, wouldn't it then be possible that the girl would stand to gain a great deal more than mere acknowledgement and a nice stipend for life? She's a teen and when she was born, Monaco had different rules in place, and that was the case for most of her life, right?

I know they can change the law or find a loophole to do whatever they want, but for normal people, as far as I know, if the girl is his daughter (again, for speculation sake) and precedent apply, then it would be a giant issue. One that could in fact, at least for some people, be easier solved by denying it, not co-operating, using legal roadblocks, and so on. Certainly a huge mess could be averted with that type of strategy -- morality or not has nothing to do with it -- they have to protect the family fortune, and if TR needs to stay on the outside of the circle for them to do that, then that's what they will do -- sounds callous, but when lots of money is involved, sometimes it's like that.


Even though the issue of 'who will be the reigning prince' seems to be resolved with Alexandre -- one never can predict the future and sometimes what you do not plan for will occur -- life is strange likethat sometimes.
  #113  
Old 09-13-2005, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyMacAlpine
I will disagree with you in that Albert had already signed papers acknowledging paternity within a few weeks of birth. The request and Nicole agreed to it was they would not be filed until after his fathers death and the end of the mourning period. He had every intending of acknowledging Alexandre at the end of that period. Once the documents were signed it became a legally binding agreement which Nicole breached with her Paris March interview demanding what she had agreed to. Cut and dried he had acknowledged his son privately Nicole wanted the public to know due to Tamara's old claim and the press causing such a stink over it. I will say more later I have to run some errands not sure when I will get back to it.
True, very true, he did acknowledge Alex from the first, albeit privately. It's so sad, though, that he kept Alex a secret from his father! As much as his father loved grandchildren, I would think that Rainier would have embraced Alex with open arms, especially as Alex was born after the constitution was already amended and there was no danger of Alex having a claim to the throne. This is correct, I think.
The constitution was altered in 2002, and Alex was born in ?August 2003. Yes, I am sure Rainier would have loved meeting Alex because he loved all of his grandchildren immensely. Maybe Rainier didn't approve of Nicole though, and Albert kept it secret because he was ashamed. Or it could be that he didn't want to upset his father, who was in and out of the hospital in the last years. Whatever the case may be, it is sad that Rainier never met Alex.
  #114  
Old 09-13-2005, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
True, very true, he did acknowledge Alex from the first, albeit privately. It's so sad, though, that he kept Alex a secret from his father! As much as his father loved grandchildren, I would think that Rainier would have embraced Alex with open arms, especially as Alex was born after the constitution was already amended and there was no danger of Alex having a claim to the throne. This is correct, I think.
The constitution was altered in 2002, and Alex was born in ?August 2003. Yes, I am sure Rainier would have loved meeting Alex because he loved all of his grandchildren immensely. Maybe Rainier didn't approve of Nicole though, and Albert kept it secret because he was ashamed. Or it could be that he didn't want to upset his father, who was in and out of the hospital in the last years. Whatever the case may be, it is sad that Rainier never met Alex.
Before the Constitution was changed in 2002 which had a lot to do with the 6 years in which Rainier was working to become a member of the Counsel of Europe to meet their requirements up to and including woman's rights by Monaco's laws that was posted in one of mine many months ago. NO child born outside of wedlock to ANY MEMEBER of the Grimaldi family past present of future had claims to the Throne of Monaco. I will repeat again and not meaning to sound rude or anything it just doesn't seem some are understanding the law and how it works. In order for any child born out of wedlock to become the Reigning Prince or Princess whatever the case might be the child had to be adopted by the Reigning Prince as was in the case of Prince Louis adopting his own biological daughter Charlotte who was Rainier's mother. Also when the parents of said illegitimate child or children marry as in the case of Princess Stephanie marrying Daniel their status changes to legitimate. Not until marriage takes place between the parents of said child or adoption was any child placed in line to inherit the Throne of Monaco. A good example again is Princess Stephanie who is a legitimate heir as her two oldest children her youngest is not since she did not marry the father. Adoption was not removed from the Constitution until 2002 at which time only direct and legitimate heirs can inherit it.

Before 2002 and now Jazmin Grace Grimaldi were she Albert's biological child only had a right to inherit half of his money nothing at all to do with the Principality is she or was she entitled to. If I recall correctly while Albert lives in the Palace I believe it is in actually the property of the Principality of Monaco. No spouse is entitled to the residence or its continence unless it is personal property brought into it after marriage. I believe that would also include any furnishings they purchased while in set residence provided they were not included in the prenuptial agreement to stay the property of the Palace.

The wife of Louis II tried to get something after his death related to the Palace I don't recall off hand what it was however she wasn't entitled to it even though it was in his will. Perhaps you could say when the President of the United States is in office for his term the White House is his residence however once its up he not longer has a right to its use or its furnishing outside of what he and his family brought into it they are the property of the Government.

What people in a way I don't think realize is when Princess Grace signed her prenuptial with Rainier she agreed if the marriage ended in divorce any and all children born to them would remain with Rainier as property of the people and government of Monaco. Made me think while we care for our children they aren't the property of a government unless you are the government. Sort of puts a new twist make the child legitimate so they can inherit the Throne of Monaco which my child is entitled to. You want them legitimate all right then the child comes to live in the Palace with me where they are entitled to live as my heir. Oh but sorry Mom you aren't entitled to live here with our child and I won't have you under the same roof I sleep so go find your own home. You can see the child on visitation days when I see fit. Cop and attitude with me and you will be thrown out of Monaco and not allowed back in. That's being a hard nosed jerk but one Albert could pull if he saw fit to do so once the child became legitimate and entitled to more then the half or his cash value. That isn't my opinion that how the law is.
  #115  
Old 09-13-2005, 05:25 PM
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I think he should adopt that stance with certain women anyway (my own opinion). Have someone pick up the child for regular visits, get a nanny to assist if he needs it, leave the stalker mother as far away from everything as possible (again, my opinion).:p

But it's a difficult position to be in, I don't envy him or them on it at all. And in the end, they will all survive quite well (some more than so than the others materially) and everyone will be fine.:) :)
  #116  
Old 09-13-2005, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillia
I think he should adopt that stance with certain women anyway (my own opinion). Have someone pick up the child for regular visits, get a nanny to assist if he needs it, leave the stalker mother as far away from everything as possible (again, my opinion).:p

But it's a difficult position to be in, I don't envy him or them on it at all. And in the end, they will all survive quite well (some more than so than the others materially) and everyone will be fine.:) :)
I am sure you are correct that all will survive.
  #117  
Old 09-13-2005, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyMacAlpine
I will disagree with you in that Albert had already signed papers acknowledging paternity within a few weeks of birth. The request and Nicole agreed to it was they would not be filed until after his fathers death and the end of the mourning period. He had every intending of acknowledging Alexandre at the end of that period. Once the documents were signed it became a legally binding agreement which Nicole breached with her Paris March interview demanding what she had agreed to. Cut and dried he had acknowledged his son privately Nicole wanted the public to know due to Tamara's old claim and the press causing such a stink over it. I will say more later I have to run some errands not sure when I will get back to it.
This is all true, I agree, but I do not think he ackowleged Alex because it was his "moral responsibility". He sleeps with married women. I think he acknowledged Alex because the French Law caught up with him. See, he can avoid the American court system but it's a bit harder to run when the woman calling you Daddy is governed by the same legal system. That's what I'm saying.

The title of the article is "....Confronts his Past" The name of this thread is "Albert denies fathering Jazmin" or something close. He did not confront anything. He said on TV, others "could" have similar claims, and in this article , I don't know of others that "could" be true. It's no where near a denial. It's a big lawyer could be or maybe could not be. I think he understands how bad it would be for him to start pulling up children out of wed lock. Talk about a image hit.

If he was not the father of Jazmin, he would do a DNA test and print a souvenier T-shirt with the results on it, maybe even hats, or coffee mugs. But he is, so he will not submit to anything. All in my opinion. Mahalo
  #118  
Old 09-13-2005, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leahteresa
This is all true, I agree, but I do not think he ackowleged Alex because it was his "moral responsibility". He sleeps with married women. I think he acknowledged Alex because the French Law caught up with him. See, he can avoid the American court system but it's a bit harder to run when the woman calling you Daddy is governed by the same legal system. That's what I'm saying.

The title of the article is "....Confronts his Past" The name of this thread is "Albert denies fathering Jazmin" or something close. He did not confront anything. He said on TV, others "could" have similar claims, and in this article , I don't know of others that "could" be true. It's no where near a denial. It's a big lawyer could be or maybe could not be. I think he understands how bad it would be for him to start pulling up children out of wed lock. Talk about a image hit.

If he was not the father of Jazmin, he would do a DNA test and print a souvenier T-shirt with the results on it, maybe even hats, or coffee mugs. But he is, so he will not submit to anything. All in my opinion. Mahalo
I don't believe Albert is the father and take his word of no other claims could be true. Tamara contacted his attorney again and he admitted it. If he in fact knew or had doubts do you honestly think at this point he wouldn't check it out? Or tell us? He is true to his word. Wants his Reign to be built on honesty and cleaning up Monaco's reputation for money laundering. His image is included in that and he is now talking about things he wouldn't before while his father was alive. Perhaps its because I can stand in his shoes so to speak to view his position and how difficult it was to have a father as he did. Not saying anything bad about his father. He didn't approve of Nicole she said that. Albert came back and told her they should just be friends apparently his attraction for her was stronger then his father saying break it off. That would make me tend to believe he might have taken the relationship to another level had it gone on with his fathers permission.
  #119  
Old 09-14-2005, 02:53 AM
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I think that's a much more appropiate stand to take. It's fine for you to take him at his word and I suspect some will. In my mind, his "word" is too ambigiuos. He chooses his word way too carefully. He did not deny Jazmin and will not come out and say it because he cannot afford to get caught lying. IMO
  #120  
Old 09-14-2005, 03:13 AM
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I am perfectly clear on the fact that Alex does not have a claim to the throne, but this fact is because of the 2002 constitutional changes. Prior to that, he would have had a claim, would he not? The only thing is, he was not born before then, so it's a non-issue, not even worth mentioning again.
It is because of 2002's changes that Alex is not, and will never be, an heir to the throne of Monaco, as Albert so plainly stated in that NY Times interview.
What I did not know, however, is that if Nicole married albert, Alex would become legitimate. I forgot that Steph's two eldest were born before she married Daniel and didn't know that they were legitimized only when she married him. Wasn't Daniel her bodyguard when they fell in love? lol, I know that's way off topic. sorry!
Thank you, as always for the education.
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