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View Poll Results: Do you believe Albert is the father of Jazmin?
Albert is the father of Jazmin 29 32.95%
Albert is not the father of Jazmin 31 35.23%
Don't know/undecided 28 31.82%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 09-11-2005, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreed777
True, Lashinka. If there was, and she did, and it came out positive, then there was a third possible (and true) unknown father of Jazmin. But, why would she be stupid enough to keep bringing it up after this many years? Why would she keep ON trying to get him to do a DNA test if she knew it would come out negative? That is just plain stupid. I'm not saying Albert's the father, I'm just saying if I stand back and look at all the "evidence" I've read so far, it sure looks to me like he knows he could possibly be and is avoiding the issue. However, there may be more evidence out there that I don't know about that could certainly change my mind. (For example, it's pretty clear he's not the father of that Bea woman's child.) Actually, if he ever just came right out and said specifically "It has been proven that there's no way I am the father of Jazmin Grimaldi" I would be like "okay, he's officially coming out and denying it." I just haven't seen that he's done that. This is all just my gut feeling based on what I've read about it, which could certainly not necessarily be the entire story I'm the first to admit.
Hi Dreed777,
I completely agree. I think Rainer had a great influence on Albert at the time of Tamara's birth and that played a large role in the outcome of the whole situation. By the time Alexandre was born circumstances may have changed as Rainier was much older physically and mentally. It seems even after all of these years I have yet to hear an official DNA denial from Albert or the Palace.
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  #82  
Old 09-12-2005, 12:47 AM
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This is my opinion of what I have read so far in the threads and I will include in the pack of the opinion of the Forum. To improve HSH Albert II, PR people will only believe Him if He publicly takes a DNA test to get Tamara to go away who has proven nothing to establish her claim to the public because she is a single mother she is seen as more of a victim. Because she had a child after being publicly seen with Him in photo's. I'm not saying it to sound nasty or anything I am being honest it seems to be the conciseness that He is guilty until He proves Himself innocent by submitting to a DNA test.


I have not heard from HSH Albert II side He ever refused DNA testing only her and the web was weaved He did.

I hope I made you laugh at times among the heaviness of the subject. I have only lost one case at trial most plead out and it was my first case I didn't interrupt the law correctly. Hard jury here. If I have gotten you to this point Dreed from where you were I need to be the Attorney and law maker not working for them.

Something to always remember is not everything is as it appears. I've made a few friends along with way. Merci de votre temps.
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  #83  
Old 09-12-2005, 01:58 AM
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Dreed, I think you said something about Tamara obviously being funded somehow because of her lifestyle. I'm sure that she has made a fortune off the media who will pay for her "story," as in, "FORMER LOVER OF PRINCE ALBERT, CLAIMS HIS LOVE CHILD," whatever. I think the money from these media interviews has helped her enormously. But she wants more. She wants "child support" from Albert.

Everyone has made really good points. There was one post that I read here, I forgot who posted it, but the person pointed out that the Grimaldis would want to prevent a repeat of what happened with Rainier's mother. That's a good point. I had not thought of it. It's true that Rainier did everything in his power to prevent a succession crisis and to protect the claims of Caroline's children, but I still don't believe Albert would knowingly deny his child. He may not be Mr. Wonderful Father, but he is certainly a man of principle. This I can see, from his actions.
  #84  
Old 09-12-2005, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
Dreed, I think you said something about Tamara obviously being funded somehow because of her lifestyle. I'm sure that she has made a fortune off the media who will pay for her "story," as in, "FORMER LOVER OF PRINCE ALBERT, CLAIMS HIS LOVE CHILD," whatever. I think the money from these media interviews has helped her enormously. But she wants more. She wants "child support" from Albert.

Everyone has made really good points. There was one post that I read here, I forgot who posted it, but the person pointed out that the Grimaldis would want to prevent a repeat of what happened with Rainier's mother. That's a good point. I had not thought of it. It's true that Rainier did everything in his power to prevent a succession crisis and to protect the claims of Caroline's children, but I still don't believe Albert would knowingly deny his child. He may not be Mr. Wonderful Father, but he is certainly a man of principle. This I can see, from his actions.
I think you are referring to what I posted a few up
Quote:
Rotolo's paternity suit sent shivers through Prince Rainier and the Grimaldi family lawyers. For they realized that, if it were legally ruled that Jazmin Grace was Albert's daughter, the six-month-old girl would take precedence over Princess Caroline's children in the ladder of succession. It would be an identical situation to that which took place a century earlier, when the illegitimate birth of Prince Rainier's mother irrevocably diverted the path of the Grimaldi dynasty.
I will agree with you about what Rainier did to prevent a succession crisis he changed the Constitution and treaty with France and Monaco was accepted as an independent state. Should the Grimaldi line die out God forbid Monaco won't revert to French rule. In many ways what I don't think many see is Rainier was protecting the people of Monaco more then his children by the changes. They have their titles as well as enough money to live more then comfortably for more then the rest of their natural days. I mean I know how easy it would be to blow a few million at a time but honestly to blow a billion that's a seriously heavy spending spree. The interest on a million with no taxes that's a store of gum balls some cracker jacks thrown in with a champagne chaser. And there should be enough left for a taxi to visit the laundry mat a few times to keep their knickers clean not to mention buy a few more pairs.
  #85  
Old 09-12-2005, 04:02 AM
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LadyM, I cannot speak about Rainier's intentions to his "subjects" because I have no experience with that, but it does make sense that his changing the constitution was certainly in the interest of protecting Monaco from falling under the wing of France. Still (and forgive me for this emotional turn!) I do believe Rainier wanted Andrea to be the prince one day. You said some very kind words about me in an earlier post, and I thank you, but I have to be emotional here! The "female" in me tells me that even though Rainier's love and pride for Albert couldn't have been more obvious, there was a part of him that sincerely and deeply longed to see the throne pass to Andrea. Sometimes the looks he would give Andrea at public events made me think he had all bets on that boy ensuring that the Grimaldi dynasty over Monaco would endure. In a way, it's somewhat logical as well as emotional if you think about it. There is something a repeat of recent history here!
Andrea, son of Rainier the Third's eldest daughter, might become sovereign if his uncle does not have a legitimate child and if Caroline steps down in his favor.
Rainier, son of Louis the Second's only daughter, became sovereign because his mother stepped down in his favor and because he was the eldest and closest male relative.
This parallel makes me wonder if Rainier saw himself in his grandson Andrea and perhaps projected his regrets on hopes that Andrea would do better.
  #86  
Old 09-12-2005, 04:26 AM
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Succession Planning

Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
I do believe Rainier wanted Andrea to be the prince one day... there was a part of him that sincerely and deeply longed to see the throne pass to Andrea. Sometimes the looks he would give Andrea at public events made me think he had all bets on that boy ensuring that the Grimaldi dynasty over Monaco would endure.
I know what you mean but if you view it in simply dynastic terms it is an example of a family looking after its own long-term interests. Always have a contingency plan. I assume the thinking would have been that if Albert didn't have any living heirs then Andrea should be prepared for what his destiny may become. I see this as good dynastic planning.

Just as in Belgium Prince/Archduke Amedeo would have been raised as a potential heir to the throne when it looked unlikely that Philippe would be marrying any time soon (only to take us all by surprise); and going back a bit further the way George V and Queen Mary took a direct interest in the young Princess Elizabeth as a potential heiress to the British Crown as a "just in case" measure.

Any dynasty that has its act together will have a "succession plan" taking into account various scenarios, and prepare the potential heirs accordingly. As to Andrea, I thought he may have been created a Prince of Monaco on his 18th birthday, but this never happened.
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  #87  
Old 09-12-2005, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
I know what you mean but if you view it in simply dynastic terms it is an example of a family looking after its own long-term interests. Always have a contingency plan. I assume the thinking would have been that if Albert didn't have any living heirs then Andrea should be prepared for what his destiny may become. I see this as good dynastic planning.

Just as in Belgium Prince/Archduke Amedeo would have been raised as a potential heir to the throne when it looked unlikely that Philippe would be marrying any time soon (only to take us all by surprise); and going back even further the way Queen Mary took a direct interest in the young Princess Elizabeth as a potential heiress to the British Crown as a "just in case" measure.

Any dynasty that has its act together will have a "succession plan" taking into account various scenarios, and prepare the potential heirs accordingly. As to Andrea, I thought he may have been created a Prince of Monaco on his 18th birthday, but this never happened.
.
.
Thanks for your two cents, Warren. Good points! But about Mary and Elizabeth Tudor, it must be said that Mary only accepted Elizabeth as heir when all other options had been exhausted.But you are absolutely correct that dynasties have perished because they failed to provide for a good succession plan!
  #88  
Old 09-12-2005, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
Thanks for your two cents, Warren. Good points! But about Mary and Elizabeth Tudor
Oops! my post here is not clear. I mean Princess Elizabeth in the early-mid 1930's. I will go back and clarify the post.
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  #89  
Old 09-12-2005, 04:57 AM
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I forgot to ask this question...How is it that Jazmin has the Grimaldi surname when supposedly Albert isn't her father? I assumed that since she wasn't married to Albert, and their isn't any indication that he fathered Jazmin, then she would carry Tamara's surname. I mean little Alexandre doesn't have his father's name, and Albert is his father.
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  #90  
Old 09-12-2005, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone
I forgot to ask this question...How is it that Jazmin has the Grimaldi surname when supposedly Albert isn't her father? I assumed that since she wasn't married to Albert, and their isn't any indication that he fathered Jazmin, then she would carry Tamara's surname. I mean little Alexandre doesn't have his father's name, and Albert is his father.
Jazmin has the surname Grimaldi because that is what Tamara chose to put on the birth certificate. I don't know about in europe, but in the US, a mother can have any name for her child on the birth certificate, and whatever is there, is legal. She could have named Jazmin after Elvis Presley and that would have been perfectly legal. That's the only reason Jazmin has that name. It has nothing to do with marriage or anything Albert wanted or granted. Tamara just wanted to rub it in the world's noses that she (supposedly) was the mother of Grace Kelly's granddaughter. Of course, I don't believe it, as I've said already too many times, but that was Tamara's unmistakeable message in naming her daughter Jazmin Grace Grimaldi.
  #91  
Old 09-12-2005, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
Jazmin has the surname Grimaldi because that is what Tamara chose to put on the birth certificate. I don't know about in europe, but in the US, a mother can have any name for her child on the birth certificate, and whatever is there, is legal. She could have named Jazmin after Elvis Presley and that would have been perfectly legal. That's the only reason Jazmin has that name. It has nothing to do with marriage or anything Albert wanted or granted. Tamara just wanted to rub it in the world's noses that she (supposedly) was the mother of Grace Kelly's granddaughter. Of course, I don't believe it, as I've said already too many times, but that was Tamara's unmistakeable message in naming her daughter Jazmin Grace Grimaldi.
In Canada it is also the same. You can name your children whatever you want. By giving Jazmin the Grimaldi name I think Tamara wanted Albert & Rainier to know that this child exists & will not be dissmised forever. It can be put off for years but eventually Jazmin will want to know and may force Albert legaly to deal with it, regardless of the outcome.
  #92  
Old 09-12-2005, 08:30 PM
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Yes it is true in the US a mother can choose any name for her child. I have a friend who was born out of wed lock and his mother put his biological fathers name on his birth certificate in the same way. It's more than a jab at the Grimaldi name. It will serve, in later years, as futher proof of paternity. I know we could go around and around but I think Dreed really did hit in on the head. PA has not taken a DNA test because there is chance he's the father. Tamara seems to think so. These two facts alone are a pretty good case. I felt the egg implant in my uterus both times I got pregnant. I knew right away and I think most women do. However, in PA defense. DNA test have been faulsified. I would be super careful about offering up any DNA to any lab. I personnaly would never give a DNA test unless ordered to by a court.
  #93  
Old 09-12-2005, 08:42 PM
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The Nicole issue was and will always be a heated topic. Albert's choice in words of 'the kid' again could be he isn't aware of peoples feelings on his use of the expression or perhaps it was the translation from French to English to cause it. It also comes across in my opinion as being picky to see it as terrible but then again that is my opinion since I call my own daughter kid. No matter what the man says or how he says it he is not going to please everyone. This is his private life after all he doesn't need to answer anyone's questions regarding it but the point I am trying to make he has. He has denied for years he wasn't gay but that wasn't believed either. Why? He even questioned it wondering what he did to make people think he was.

It's documented Albert has said it he is a private person. I give him credit for speaking at all on this subject since it is sensitive for him and uncomfortable which is obvious to me just in his mannerisms when he speaks. I feel for him in his attempt to try to set the record straight. I created this thread for a purpose. To try and help bring peoples opinions of Albert around to seeing another view. Opinions about him were set in the minds of many by what they had read in tabloids, gossip rags, and books that has undoubtedly harmed his reputation. There is also other message boards where anything goes and the mud slinging is well I wonder how they can stay online how they not only trash Albert but all Royals.

The reality of the situation is Albert has no reason at all to not acknowledge Jazmin Grace Grimaldi as his daughter if in fact she was. If he doubted paternity when Tamara contacted his attorney after the story of Alexandre came out there was again no reason for him to not agree to the DNA testing and results known by now. Just because he didn't publicize it was done doesn't mean he didn't do it or back years ago when blood samples were supplied. He did say there was other claims and that they would be answered when the time came. That makes me wonder if something was done privately. Do people honestly think if it did even recently and the test was negative Tamara would want it known? Not in my opinion.

Again all that has ever been said is Tamara claims he is Jazmin's father and the DNA testing was never done. How does she know they never ran it after she supplied the samples? Let me ask this just to have you think about it I'm not looking for a direct answer just consider this. Tamara made a spectacle of herself in public to get Albert to acknowledge her child, conceived while she was married to another man. Separated or not she was legally married to a man that DNA testing he and she says ruled him out. Again someone's word besides Albert's making a claim where no documented proof on their side has ever been given. Why has she supposedly hidden from everyone trying to speak to her? Why has she never given documented proof by an ultra sound report that her child was in fact born premature and conceived while in Monaco? Why has no one ever seen documented proof of medical records to show the child was not fully developed at birth? I believe I can answer those but won't.

Why has no one asked Tamara to give proof? Her words been accepted his isn't. There is a child in need of knowing the truth as to who her father is. Had I been the writer of those books and the web sites you can google before I ever stuck my neck out there I would have asked for her proof to support her claim. I am asking for proof and no one can tell me Tamara doesn't know about this site.

If a DNA test was conducted publicly it came back negative as I said before she would claim he fixed it. Her supporters would still be going strong. Just like postings I have found since the Alexandre story came out to say it was a front he really is gay. Part of being a good defense Attorney is to place doubt in the minds of the jury by blowing holes in the prosecutions case to make the verdict come back as not guilty.

Think about the fact if she never has to produce the documentation and he continues in the eyes of the world to appear to refuse DNA testing she is his victim and wouldn't she look like a true nut case and in much needed help of mental health treatment? She is safe until the day it is proven one way or the other or is she? I'm here and I support Albert I take what he said as a denial of paternity regarding that child. "
Quote:
I don't know of any others that could be true," he said.
I could be wrong in all this however I have to present my case for the underdog I like long shots the pay off is higher at the race track.
  #94  
Old 09-12-2005, 09:25 PM
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Once again, very good points. I guess when I really think about it, it's nobody's business what he calls Alexandre, how often he sees him, and how his relationship with Nicole stands. The translation possiblity makes sense, also why has Tamara NOT shown any proof that Jazmin was premature is a very good question as well. If she really wanted to prove her case she could have done that easily. It all makes for a lot of conjecture, doesn't it?! I guess even though I know it's none of my business anyway, it's the old "enquiring minds want to know" Mrs. Kravitz thing! :)
  #95  
Old 09-12-2005, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreed777
Once again, very good points. I guess when I really think about it, it's nobody's business what he calls Alexandre, how often he sees him, and how his relationship with Nicole stands. The translation possiblity makes sense, also why has Tamara NOT shown any proof that Jazmin was premature is a very good question as well. If she really wanted to prove her case she could have done that easily. It all makes for a lot of conjecture, doesn't it?! I guess even though I know it's none of my business anyway, it's the old "enquiring minds want to know" Mrs. Kravitz thing! :)
She has never been challenged to prove her case before.
  #96  
Old 09-12-2005, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyMacAlpine
Again all that has ever been said is Tamara claims he is Jazmin's father and the DNA testing was never done. How does she know they never ran it after she supplied the samples? .... If a DNA test was conducted publicly it came back negative as I said before she would claim he fixed it. Her supporters would still be going strong...
LadyMac...The part I don't understand is this: "IF" a DNA test was done after Tamara supplied the samples, why wouldn't PA's lawyer/advisors go on and publicly admit that a DNA test had, in fact, been done years ago with a negative result? I would think they would want to plaster that fact all over the place, and use that as number one evidence that PA was not Jazmin's father. And if Tamara came back and claims the results were fixed and her supporters still kept it up...My feeling then would be, "so what"? She wouldn't have a leg to stand on. But at least in PA's defense, he could truthfully say the test WAS done, and the results were negative. I don't understand why they don't just go ahead and publicize the negative results, if he truthfully knows that Jazmin is not his. Maybe I'm just missing something...
  #97  
Old 09-12-2005, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mw7060a
LadyMac...The part I don't understand is this: "IF" a DNA test was done after Tamara supplied the samples, why wouldn't PA's lawyer/advisors go on and publicly admit that a DNA test had, in fact, been done years ago with a negative result? I would think they would want to plaster that fact all over the place, and use that as number one evidence that PA was not Jazmin's father. And if Tamara came back and claims the results were fixed and her supporters still kept it up...My feeling then would be, "so what"? She wouldn't have a leg to stand on. But at least in PA's defense, he could truthfully say the test WAS done, and the results were negative. I don't understand why they don't just go ahead and publicize the negative results, if he truthfully knows that Jazmin is not his. Maybe I'm just missing something...
No, you aren't I was making a statement for thought of a possibility. I don't know if a test was done. I know if I was Rainier I would want to know if the child was Albert's partly due to the fact how he or Albert look later if in fact the child was his if they had denied her all those years? Also think about the fact of what Rainier's own mother went through being rejected by her grandfather. I heard the stories about Rainier being somewhat harsh. But I don't think he was totally heartless. If he was he wouldn't have had 3 children who through everything do in fact have good hearts and seem to give more freely in ways then some other Royals. Their denial wouldn't have been for the reason Tarama is quoted as saying. Honestly there was no reason at all as now for the family Albert to have ever feared Jazmin being acknowledged as Albert's daughter or for that matter any child out there.
  #98  
Old 09-12-2005, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leahteresa
I know we could go around and around but I think Dreed really did hit in on the head. PA has not taken a DNA test because there is chance he's the father. Tamara seems to think so. These two facts alone are a pretty good case.
This is a great point. I must have missed it somehow when Dreed pointed this out. But........ right after you said, Lady Mac made an equally fine point, albeit one which raised a serious question in my mind. She pointed out that PA may have done a DNA test but kept it private. If he did this, then the test must have been positive and he is the father because why else would Tamara continue to say he is? If a test had been done and it was negative, she'd have to say she had been wrong, or she'd be lying. So either someone is lying, and it might actually be Albert who is lying, or there was never a DNA test, private or otherwise. Lying about it doesn't seem consistent with Albert's publicly-known character, but there may be other factors, unknown to us, which would induce him to lie.
  #99  
Old 09-13-2005, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
I don't know about in europe, but in the US, a mother can have any name for her child on the birth certificate, and whatever is there, is legal.


I wasn't aware of this information. Thanks for answering the question, though.
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Old 09-13-2005, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sommone
I wasn't aware of this information. Thanks for answering the question, though.
They are correct about the last name what you aren't allowed to do is put a father's name on the certificate if not married unless he signs a paper giving permission or a court authorizes it.
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