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View Poll Results: Do you believe Albert is the father of Jazmin?
Albert is the father of Jazmin 29 32.95%
Albert is not the father of Jazmin 31 35.23%
Don't know/undecided 28 31.82%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 09-10-2005, 02:34 PM
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Please keep this thread civil. It was not started to bash the opinions of other members or Nicole and Albert. It's perfectly fine to state your opinion on the subject - either for or against - but please do so respectfully. It's also okay to disagree with the opinion of another member as long as it's also done respectfully.

The intent of this thread is to discuss Albert and his denying being the father of Jazmin, please stay on topic.
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  #22  
Old 09-10-2005, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabriella
Please keep this thread civil. It was not started to bash the opinions of other members or Nicole and Albert. It's perfectly fine to state your opinion on the subject - either for or against - but please do so respectfully. It's also okay to disagree with the opinion of another member as long as it's also done respectfully.

The intent of this thread is to discuss Albert and his denying being the father of Jazmin, please stay on topic.
Thank you and sorry I know I did.
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  #23  
Old 09-10-2005, 03:27 PM
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I agree with CasiraghiTrio, what harm is there in doing a simple DNA test? I mean an independently conducted, verifiable, fair test - not where one parent just sends the samples halfway around the world. There are so very many different scenarios that could have taken place the way it was done. Albert could actually not even know the true results??? If Rainier was as all-powerful as has always been suggested, who knows? I have no idea. I just think the way it was done could hardly be called "unquestionable". I'm not saying it was "rigged" - just that it certainly would have been easy to do so. And, the bottom line is, it would be SO simple for Albert to get together with Tamara (not physically) next time he's in NY, arrange for a simple DNA test conducted by an INDEPENDENT establishment, what's the big deal? It would take 2 seconds of his time and clear this up forever, and the whole "Jazmin thing" would stop coming back over and over and over like the energizer bunny. Just a thought. PLEASE don't anyone somehow take this personally - my ideas about this subject are not about anyone on this board!
And I know, yada yada yada he's already supposedly done a DNA test, but I'm talking about something official, fair and independent - which it really sounds like has not been done.
Actually, we probably should all take Gabriella's advice to each of us which has been to ignore some others' posts, but it's hard to read the forum and make sense if you skip some. So I am trying as hard as I know how to not somehow inadvertantly offend someone personally. :)
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  #24  
Old 09-10-2005, 04:21 PM
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:( I feel very sad for men like Prince Albert who, after the fact, deny their child(ren). He is a prince but above all he is a man and should accept responsibility just like anyone else. It is very easy to play the blame game. I am very upset at his comments. Hopefully, these will not come to hunt him when his child is old enough to read them.:(
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  #25  
Old 09-10-2005, 04:39 PM
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Question

The interesting thing to me about this article is the forceful way Albert states that Alexandre will *NOT* be his heir, and that the succession laws of Monaco are not going to change. PA probably feels a lot of pressure now to marry and have legitimate children, and I think he's basically letting Nicole (and any other alleged girlfriends/mothers) know in no uncertain terms what his duties and responsiblities are re: Monaco. His position puts him in a situation that is somewhat different from the "man on the street" and I think he wants to clarify taht for Monegasques. It's sad in a way, and frustraing, but that's the way it is for royals.:(
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  #26  
Old 09-10-2005, 04:40 PM
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He did not say anything harsh about his son. I know he loves him and that he is very sad about the circumstances. I think it's just that Nicole doesn't make it easy on him.
He would have a wonderful realation to whatever child of his own. I just can't see him rejecting them - he's not of the kind to do so. He's a warm and loving person.
It just would have been better if Nicole ( and whoever else claims to have his child) would come up and talk about it with him if it is a serious issue. When he knows there's some truth behind it he would always react in an appropriate way. Nicole just seems like she didn't even give him the opportunity to do so. She just went public - and even if she says that this was her only chance to make Albert react; tthis is not true. Albert would have shown reaction and he would have recognized Alexandre anyhow. It just wasn't the right time she chose to go public - and it seems like she chose this exact time on purpuse to have as much publicity as possible. And so does the mother of Jazmin. They shouldn't do this ...it might come back on them like a boomerang, and it might make the lives of the kids more difficult
which they don't deserve.
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  #27  
Old 09-10-2005, 04:57 PM
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I do not believe that anything duplicitious took place in the Jazmin case. I know Rainier had a lot of power to do questionable things, and I have no doubt he did at times use his power to protect his family from scandal. But I think the Jazmin case is cut and dry, and that there are no lies from the Grimaldi side. My reason for believing Albert's claims in this case are as follows:

1) Albert has nothing to gain from suppressing any DNA test that may have been done in the past. He would only look bad if anyone suspected there was a test, it was positive, and he or Rainier had it suppressed from the public in order to keep denying Jazmin. This is preposterous because it would only make things worse for them.
2) Albert has already shown a willingness to accept responsibility for a child that is his. He would not deny being Jazmin's father unless it is true that he is not.

My conclusion is that there is no real DNA test where Jazmin is concerned. Sending samples to the palace is not accomplishing a DNA test. I think it is a mistake of Albert's not to do the test because he really could end matters if he would do it. But it's his personal choice, obviously. I'm sure he has his reasons.

LadyM, you said Jazmin looks like the Grimaldis? Does anyone have a pic of her to post so we can see if this is true? Maybe we could do a comparison image of her and Albert?
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  #28  
Old 09-10-2005, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreed777
I agree with CasiraghiTrio, what harm is there in doing a simple DNA test? I mean an independently conducted, verifiable, fair test - not where one parent just sends the samples halfway around the world. There are so very many different scenarios that could have taken place the way it was done. Albert could actually not even know the true results??? If Rainier was as all-powerful as has always been suggested, who knows? I have no idea. I just think the way it was done could hardly be called "unquestionable". I'm not saying it was "rigged" - just that it certainly would have been easy to do so. And, the bottom line is, it would be SO simple for Albert to get together with Tamara (not physically) next time he's in NY, arrange for a simple DNA test conducted by an INDEPENDENT establishment, what's the big deal? It would take 2 seconds of his time and clear this up forever, and the whole "Jazmin thing" would stop coming back over and over and over like the energizer bunny. Just a thought. PLEASE don't anyone somehow take this personally - my ideas about this subject are not about anyone on this board!
And I know, yada yada yada he's already supposedly done a DNA test, but I'm talking about something official, fair and independent - which it really sounds like has not been done.
Actually, we probably should all take Gabriella's advice to each of us which has been to ignore some others' posts, but it's hard to read the forum and make sense if you skip some. So I am trying as hard as I know how to not somehow inadvertantly offend someone personally. :)
You didn't offend me but I do have to ask you a question. How many times does Albert have to do a DNA test independently to prove he is not the father of some woman's imagination who apparently had sex with more then her husband, and him? He said once again the child is not his and I had accepted it the first time it was. The Palace years ago even with Rainier alive had no reasons what so ever to deny the child was his daughter if in fact she was. Rainier was the result of a mother who had been rejected by her grandfather.

Lets explore that for a minute. Hypothetically Jazmin was Albert's biological daughter blood tests provided it beyond a doubt 98.8% paternity index like in my case. Is there any reason Albert can't acknowledge the child? Would it cause a problem in succession for the Throne of Monaco as stated by sources? NO. Only a legitimate heir of the Reigning Prince could inherit the Throne. Only if Albert was legally married to the woman who gave birth to the child meaning he married Tamara before or after the birth either way it would make Jazmin legitimate, under the guidelines set forth by the law. If he didn't want to marry her he could have adopted Jazmin to make her his legitimate heir. That is the legal standing of the situation before 2002 which I fully understand having studied criminal and civil law and the Constitution of Monaco.

Adoption was removed from the Constitution in 2002 to read only direct and legitimate heirs could inherit the Throne of Monaco. If Albert marries and has a child with his legal wife that child becomes the heir. 1. HRHPrincess Caroline of Hanover, Hereditary Princess of Monaco and Heiress Presumptive, elder sister of Albert II Etc down the line. Heirs presumptive; that is, they could be moved down the list if Albert II were to father a child. If Albert's firstborn were a daughter, she would become the first in line, but still an heiress presumptive; on the other hand, his first son would be the heir apparent, who could not be displaced by any future births. Not included in the line of succession are, Alexandre Coste, son of Prince Albert II and Camille Gottlieb, daughter of Princess Stéphanie. This being that they are both illegitimate children and therefore have no claim to the throne.

Rainier had no reason to fear Jazmin being acknowledged nor did Albert both of whom had a clear understanding of the laws set forth herewith (a bunch of legal baloney common folks don't understand) by the Constitution of the Principality of Monaco. He sure doesn't now. Rainier had to consider how his mother felt growing up being denied by Albert I. When Albert I moved Charlotte into the Palace during the W.W.II he Albert I moved out to live on his yacht. I feel sorry for Jazmin I really do in what she has been put through over the years. Not only does her mother need counseling so does the child at this point. The resentment will someday backlash on Tamara over this when it hits Jazmin. Tell me the kids learning about this aren't going to tease her over it.

Also this thread is about Albert saying Jazmin is not his child nothing to do with Alexandre even though he was mentioned in the article. For us to discuss anything besides Jazmin is off Topic and Gabriella has all ready stated it.
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  #29  
Old 09-10-2005, 05:05 PM
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I didn't mean to say she looked like them if I did it was an error. Other have said she looks like them. She looks like her mother which you can clearly see in a photograph of the two together that has been posted before and we aren't to repost photo's as Gabriella has pointed out in the Housecleaning thread. I will see if I can locate the link but this isn't getting my thread clean up done either of making mine attachments.

I also agree with Sebastian on his post.
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  #30  
Old 09-10-2005, 05:09 PM
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On second thought there is 9 threads with Jazmin mentioned perhaps Gabriella will do the honors if she comes across it to give us the link.
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  #31  
Old 09-10-2005, 05:30 PM
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found this, sorry it's in swedish

Tamara Rotolo (till höger) träffade prins Albert på en semesterresa till Monaco 1991. Resultatet är, enligt Tamara, dottern Jazmin Grace Grimaldi (till vänster). När Albert var på ett välgörenhetsbesök i Wyoming 1993 tog Tamara med sig flickan dit och hälsade honom med orden ”Albert, säg hej till din dotter!”
credit www.expressen.se
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  #32  
Old 09-10-2005, 05:42 PM
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I really do not think this article sheds too much light on anything but thanks for posting it Lady M...
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  #33  
Old 09-10-2005, 05:49 PM
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Thanks for the pic of Jazmin. I cannot say that I see any particular resemblance to Albert or any Grimaldi. I think LadyM is right, though. This topic is probably best laid to rest. We can't really debate anything about it because there aren't enough concrete facts. So all we can do is take Albert's word at face value and assume he is acting with his best judgement. All of his former actions that I can tell point to sound decision-making and a steady, reasonable character.
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  #34  
Old 09-10-2005, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CasiraghiTrio
Thanks for the pic of Jazmin. I cannot say that I see any particular resemblance to Albert or any Grimaldi. I think LadyM is right, though. This topic is probably best laid to rest. We can't really debate anything about it because there aren't enough concrete facts. So all we can do is take Albert's word at face value and assume he is acting with his best judgement. All of his former actions that I can tell point to sound decision-making and a steady, reasonable character.
I don't have a clue as to how old you are but I must say you have a good head on your shoulders and not just because you said you agree with me. You used logic and reason to come to the decision you did not emotion. Its those qualities that makes good counselors that are much needed in todays society.
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  #35  
Old 09-10-2005, 07:40 PM
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Lady M, I agree with everything you posted in your last post. It sounds like CasiraghiTrio, for one, didn't already have his/her mind made up. Most of the rest of us have preconceived notions that always get in the way. (Actually, probably all the rest of us.:) )
Oh, to answer your question, it could hardly be called a fair and independent DNA test when the samples weren't all collected together and tested. The way it was done would never stand up in a court of law.
Isn't there something about Tamara & Jazmin are just waiting for Jazmin to turn 18 because she can go to France and legally demand a DNA test at that time? Where did I hear that? It was on one of these royal messageboards.
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  #36  
Old 09-10-2005, 07:51 PM
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It's wrong for ALbert to say the reason he hasn't seeen his son is b/f of his child's mothers' attitude toward him. That is so immature.
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  #37  
Old 09-10-2005, 07:53 PM
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I don't know about that. If someone came out and insisted my husband give his DNA to prove he is her father I think we would have very significant legal recourse. (Hypothetical here, my husband had none before we met) I mean, what does an 18 year old need with a Daddy? Go get a job. But, I could be wrong. I've been wrong before.

I also want to interject a very obvious Mis-truth that has been quoted in LOTS of articles dealing with Alexandre and inheritance. I do not see how he is "Entitled to half his fathers fortune". That sounds like drama added to sell papers and though it may be somewhere in French law. Nepolicanic code is the basis for things like this and often new laws have been passed that offer exception. He is probably only "Entitled" to whatever PA wills him, Just like Stephanie was in Reiner's will. No law that I know of can "require" a person to, on their death, give their money to someone else, blood or otherwise. ESPECIALLY if the father goes on the record, as he has a couple of times now, as saying he was NOT a willing participant. This last fact I believe. There would be NO good reason for PA to father a child out of wedlock with anyone.
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  #38  
Old 09-10-2005, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreed777
Lady M, I agree with everything you posted in your last post. It sounds like CasiraghiTrio, for one, didn't already have his/her mind made up. Most of the rest of us have preconceived notions that always get in the way. (Actually, probably all the rest of us.:) )
Oh, to answer your question, it could hardly be called a fair and independent DNA test when the samples weren't all collected together and tested. The way it was done would never stand up in a court of law.
Isn't there something about Tamara & Jazmin are just waiting for Jazmin to turn 18 because she can go to France and legally demand a DNA test at that time? Where did I hear that? It was on one of these royal messageboards.
You heard it on this one for one I said it only Tamara can't request it Jazmin has to. The mother has no right after age 2. Honestly if Albert believed he was Jazmins father he would have no problem submitting to the test. Why hasn't he to satisfy everyone that wants it? He doesn't feel it necessary to prove anything to anyone when he knows that he didn't have unprotected sex with her. That's my opinion on it not his. Its common sense really which is what I have tried to stress all along as some others. Why would he accept Alexandre but not another? Why would he say there are no other claims that could be true? Common sense he made it known he wanted children but not in that way outside of marriage. He is part of the Fight Aids Monaco. He is an extremely intelligent man been health conscious for years working out daily and watched his diet as well not eating deserts except occasionally. Says a lot to me in that he would have to be rather stupid to not use condoms with a person he doesn't know even then would still use one. Aids isn't the only STD out there good old fashioned VD still is. My head isn't up in the clouds where he is concerned either he is human and subject to errors as anyone else the fact he is a man he might even make more due to their testrone.
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  #39  
Old 09-10-2005, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leahteresa
I don't know about that. If someone came out and insisted my husband give his DNA to prove he is her father I think we would have very significant legal recourse. (Hypothetical here, my husband had none before we met) I mean, what does an 18 year old need with a Daddy? Go get a job. But, I could be wrong. I've been wrong before.

I also want to interject a very obvious Mis-truth that has been quoted in LOTS of articles dealing with Alexandre and inheritance. I do not see how he is "Entitled to half his fathers fortune". That sounds like drama added to sell papers and though it may be somewhere in French law. Nepolicanic code is the basis for things like this and often new laws have been passed that offer exception. He is probably only "Entitled" to whatever PA wills him, Just like Stephanie was in Reiner's will. No law that I know of can "require" a person to, on their death, give their money to someone else, blood or otherwise. ESPECIALLY if the father goes on the record, as he has a couple of times now, as saying he was NOT a willing participant. This last fact I believe. There would be NO good reason for PA to father a child out of wedlock with anyone.
French law says he is entitled to half of whatever Albert has money wise at the time of his death the other half may be given to whomever he wants. In France you can't disinherit your kids no matter what its half divided equally among the children.
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  #40  
Old 09-10-2005, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reina
It's wrong for ALbert to say the reason he hasn't seeen his son is b/f of his child's mothers' attitude toward him. That is so immature.
I began to comment on this however rethought the fact this thread is about Albert and Jazmin will send you a PM in response.
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