Charlene Wittstock's Education & Swimming Career

[sandsla]

Well, after the wedding extravaganza, she'll have to show her mettle (provided she has any) and she will need to earn the respect of the Monegasques and the residents of Monaco.

Then we'll see whether she is genuine or just a "living doll"...

(I just posted a reply that seems to be missing-I don't know if it was my post something I said or the fact that I have to sign in every two seconds. So I'll try it again.)

Renatta, and....?

Don't you think it's too little too late! Albert is going to wait until AFTER the wedding EXTRAVAGANZA for Charlene to show her mettle? You don't think Charlene has had the time or money to show her mettle by now? She has had more opportunity (in so many ways), than any other royal princess-to-be? Not only has she been living there for all these years, she has pretty much been playing the part which many find very distasteful and presumptuous, but if she was going to be mocking the part all these years, you would have thought that she would have stepped it up when she was eager to get that ring on her finger and the title connected to her name? She will always be connected to Monaco! If she wasn't eager to show she could be the part then, living there by Albert's side, already posing as the princess of Monaco eager to be the Princess of Monaco, why would she now?

I just don't think people are going to forgive that or respect Charlene for living off of Albert all these years....especially when she couldn't make the effort to try to endear herself to the Monegasque people, she even seems to dismiss it in a very arrogant remark in the Tatler interview?

After Albert has given her what she wants, why do you think she has a reason to do anything differently AFTER the fact? If Charlene did not think it was important before, or care what people thought of her when she was so eager to get that ring on her finger and the title next to her name, why would she care now or do anything differently after she is holding all the cards?

These kind of remarks that we should cut her some slack for SIX years now, and still when she had a whole year to prepare after the engagement, what has she done, besides lookslike she turned herself into a media ......you fill in the blanks? This is a women that looks like they are trying to hard sell, but no one can figure out what it is about her they are trying to sell? This has made Charlene and the palace and Albert look ridiculous! I'm sorry to say I don't think anyone is really "concentrating" on this wedding--maybe if Charlene had stayed in Albert's private life where she belonged instead of using her connection to Albert to try to turn herself into a celebrity--Albert should have known better, even if Charlene was willing, and the opposite holds true too!. The problem isn't that people don't know enough about her--the problem is they know too much!

I am afraid your comments about holding out to see if she has any mettle might be a lost cause? How long ago did they meet...10 years? How much longer do you think it's going to take? Isn't this suppose to be the reason that Albert waited so long to ask her to marry him? If she is ready by now...do you really think she will ever be. A very costly mistake just to try to raise a few buck if you ask me?

 

[COUNTESS]

(I just posted a reply that seems to be missing-I don't know if it was my post something I said or the fact that I have to sign in every two seconds. So I'll try it again.)

Renatta, and....?

Don't you think it's too little too late! Albert is going to wait until AFTER the wedding EXTRAVAGANZA for Charlene to show her mettle? You don't think Charlene has had the time or money to show her mettle by now? She has had more opportunity (in so many ways), than any other royal princess-to-be? Not only has she been living there for all these years, she has pretty much been playing the part which many find very distasteful and presumptuous, but if she was going to be mocking the part all these years, you would have thought that she would have stepped it up when she was eager to get that ring on her finger and the title connected to her name? She will always be connected to Monaco! If she wasn't eager to show she could be the part then, living there by Albert's side, already posing as the princess of Monaco eager to be the Princess of Monaco, why would she now?

I just don't think people are going to forgive that or respect Charlene for living off of Albert all these years....especially when she couldn't make the effort to try to endear herself to the Monegasque people, she even seems to dismiss it in a very arrogant remark in the Tatler interview?

After Albert has given her what she wants, why do you think she has a reason to do anything differently AFTER the fact? If Charlene did not think it was important before, or care what people thought of her when she was so eager to get that ring on her finger and the title next to her name, why would she care now or do anything differently after she is holding all the cards?

These kind of remarks that we should cut her some slack for SIX years now, and still when she had a whole year to prepare after the engagement, what has she done, besides lookslike she turned herself into a media ......you fill in the blanks? This is a women that looks like they are trying to hard sell, but no one can figure out what it is about her they are trying to sell? This has made Charlene and the palace and Albert look ridiculous! I'm sorry to say I don't think anyone is really "concentrating" on this wedding--maybe if Charlene had stayed in Albert's private life where she belonged instead of using her connection to Albert to try to turn herself into a celebrity--Albert should have known better, even if Charlene was willing, and the opposite holds true too!. The problem isn't that people don't know enough about her--the problem is they know too much!

I am afraid your comments about holding out to see if she has any mettle might be a lost cause? How long ago did they meet...10 years? How much longer do you think it's going to take? Isn't this suppose to be the reason that Albert waited so long to ask her to marry him? If she is ready by now...do you really think she will ever be. A very costly mistake just to try to raise a few buck if you ask me?

Wow, what garbage, if I may say so, myself. I am sorry if I offend anyone. Maybe, if "Camiila" stayed in Charles' private life. Please, Moderators forgive me, but what a pile of.......Charlene is a beautiful, single woman, without a past, trying to get her life to go forward with someone she cares for. And, who are you to judge what she is doing, will do or has done? His father, married a woman, he didn't know, and what a chance she took. Leaving the U.S. and a great career, to marry a second rate prince from a country we never, at that time heard of. I have been to Monaco and love it, but in the 50's it was no where.

 

[Nadine]

Geeze Louise! This is becoming a Greek comedy, or should I say tragedy. It keeps growing & Growing & GROWING! To the point it has a life of its own!

Lets get back to some facts, shall we, hmmm...

Fact: Miss Wittstock is an Olympic trained athlete, and that is what she has been doing up until the last 4 years, that is training, competing, and participating in Olympic & World & National Championship competitions, which has been her J-O-B until 2007, which is when she retired after not making the 2008 Olympic Team due to a shoulder injury. But up until that point she was a full-time Swimmer, having won several National Championships (her last one on April 13th, 2007) and having finished fifth at the 2000 Summer Olympics and sixth at the 2002 World Championships.

Source of reference: Charlene Wittstock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Anybody that knows anything about amateur and professional full-time athletes know that they work HARD to succeed at the very top of the echelon, it's basically a full-time job, training, competing, participating, sometimes touring, all-year long with little time off. So I can understand that swimming was Charlene's life up until 4 years ago, then she retired, and concentrated full-time on becoming the next First Lady of Monaco. At that point I can only presume that there was an *understanding* between Albert and her. She was basically in full-time training, but not as a Swimmer, lol, rather a Princess. And thus far she has done a remarkable job imho, particularly this past year, but the real test will be when she gets that ring on her finger.

And I have no doubt she will blow everybody away when it comes to being First Lady of Monaco. Reason: her past as a successful athlete

Athletics teaches one determination, drive, responsibility, self-confidence, punctuality, independence, motivation, to be the best that you can be! Lol, this is why I'm not surprised that Crown Princess Victoria married Daniel Westling, whom was her full-time personal trainer. What better partner than one that has excelled in athletics, which is similar to being a royal imho.

As for the rest, bah, it is all supposition, rumour, gossip, hearsay, mean-spiritedness, jealousy, envy, troublemaking, et al. Give me Facts any day.

 

[COUNTESS]

Geeze Louise! This is becoming a Greek comedy, or should I say tragedy. It keeps growing & Growing & GROWING! To the point it has a life of its own!

Lets get back to some facts, shall we, hmmm...

Fact: Miss Wittstock is an Olympic trained athlete, and that is what she has been doing up until the last 4 years, that is training, competing, and participating in Olympic & World & National Championship competitions, which has been her J-O-B until 2007, which is when she retired after not making the 2008 Olympic Team due to a shoulder injury. But up until that point she was a full-time Swimmer, having won several National Championships (her last one on April 13th, 2007) and having finished fifth at the 2000 Summer Olympics and sixth at the 2002 World Championships.

Source of reference: Charlene Wittstock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Anybody that knows anything about amateur and professional full-time athletes know that they work HARD to succeed at the very top of the echelon, it's basically a full-time job, training, competing, participating, sometimes touring, all-year long with little time off. So I can understand that swimming was Charlene's life up until 4 years ago, then she retired, and concentrated full-time on becoming the next First Lady of Monaco. At that point I can only presume that there was an *understanding* between Albert and her. She was basically in full-time training, but not as a Swimmer, lol, rather a Princess. And thus far she has done a remarkable job imho, particularly this past year, but the real test will be when she gets that ring on her finger.

And I have no doubt she will blow everybody away when it comes to being First Lady of Monaco. Reason: her past as a successful athlete

Athletics teaches one determination, drive, responsibility, self-confidence, punctuality, independence, motivation, to be the best that you can be! Lol, this is why I'm not surprised that Crown Princess Victoria married Daniel Westling, whom was her full-time personal trainer. What better partner than one that has excelled in athletics, which is similar to being a royal imho.

As for the rest, bah, it is all supposition, rumour, gossip, hearsay, mean-spiritedness, jealousy, envy, troublemaking, et al. Give me Facts any day.

I, fully, concur.

 

[doric44]

Frankly what does it matter what languages she does or does not speak or her level of education or lack thereof.
Her role is to look pretty and smile at official occasions and produce an heir...and hopefully a couple spares as well for Monaco. That may oversimplifying it but thats basically it.
. Albert is the one that needs the education and the linguistic skills to navigate the dipolmatic fields between france and monaco and the education to govern his principality not Charline

 

[Renata4711]

It is indeed oversimplifying things .... smile a bit ... hand out prizes ... lots of expensive frocks .... no need for the French language .... or any other language ..... get pregnant .... preferably several times ....

Remember Cliff Richard's "Living Doll" ?

 

[rosana]

Frankly what does it matter what languages she does or does not speak or her level of education or lack thereof.
Her role is to look pretty and smile at official occasions and produce an heir...and hopefully a couple spares as well for Monaco. That may oversimplifying it but thats basically it.
. Albert is the one that needs the education and the linguistic skills to navigate the dipolmatic fields between france and monaco and the education to govern his principality not Charline

Yes!! thats what women were fighting for all these years! Just shut up and have a heir. For a woman with no ambitions, I suppose that wearing expensive clothes and posing in magazines is enough to feel fulfilled.

 

[Renata4711]

CW did have sporting ambition, but time was running out for her, biologically-speaking.

With no career left for her, the obvious practical solution was to get herself a partner or husband.

So far, so good. But it seems that, without qualifications or other useful attributes, her "game plan" would have had to include finding someone with money.

And she found him.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Frankly what does it matter what languages she does or does not speak or her level of education or lack thereof.
Her role is to look pretty and smile at official occasions and produce an heir...and hopefully a couple spares as well for Monaco. That may oversimplifying it but thats basically it.
. Albert is the one that needs the education and the linguistic skills to navigate the dipolmatic fields between france and monaco and the education to govern his principality not Charline

My guess is that CW will indeed produce an heir very quickly.

An heir-especially if it's a son-will go a looong way to diverting attention away from any other deficiencies or criticisms of the new Princess.

And even though an important requirement is to look pretty...which she does amazingly.. what good is smiling at official functions if you cannot converse intelligently with the person you are smiling at..in their own language?

You will soon seem like quite the idiot.

If CW has spent the last five or six years "preparing" to become Princess as some assert, how was she preparing and what was she doing??

I have asked this question about a dozen times on TRF, and all I get in response is the sound of crickets chirping frankly.

 

[COUNTESS]

As you are privy to no one in the palace. You don't know. Neither do I. As English is widely spoken and the language used at most diplomatic functions, she will be able to converse her head off. Camilla is going to be queen, what are her great acommplishments, her language skills? Yet, she seems to do well on these occassions.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Point taken COUNTESS, but Camilla has not lived in a foreign country as the..."guest" of her boyfriend for half a decade.

She didn't have to learn to speak a foreign language, and I am certainly no Camilla advocate, but something tells me based on her past she would have taken better advantage of the opportunity to do so.

I don't know what her language skills are, and I don't really care either. She speaks English, which is her native language and the language of the country she will be Queen Consort of.

Charlene will be Princess Consort of Monaco...and she cannot converse in it's official language after five years of apparently doing nothing more taxing than collaborating with Monsieur Armani.

 

[melina premiere]

ON bew photos site, there are some photos of Charlene when she was young and on other sites belga pictures there are photos of former teachers of Charlene, I saw already these persons because there was a documentary on Kate and Charlene. Those teachers showed the notes she had at school, she was a good shoolgirl.I hoped you will can see this documentary because I feel you don't think me

 

[Florencia]

A close up on a picture shown by Sandra Jakobi, former swimming teacher of Charlene Wittstock, and taken from school pictures of Charlene (top R) on June 15, 2011 at Farrarmere Primary school in Benoni, South Africa. Prince Albert II of Monaco and his South African swimming champion fiancee Charlene Wittstock will celebrate their wedding over two days on July 2 and 3.
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Sandra Jakobi, former swimming teacher of Charlene Wittstock, poses with old school pictures of Charlene on June 15, 2011 at Farrarmere Primary school in Benoni, South Africa.
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Lyndsay Coelho, former geography teacher of Charlene Wittstock, poses on June 15, 2011 at Farrarmere Primary school in Benoni, South Africa.
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Marlene Albertyn, former teacher of Charlene Wittstock, poses with a picture of Charlene swimming and another one with a student uniform on June 15, 2011 at Tom Newby Primary school in Benoni, South Africa.
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http://www.imagebam.com/image/34e968136976979

 

[vittoria]

Hmm. I know many Americans who speak foreign languages well (I speak three and read two more), but then, I work in a profession that requires this, and most of my colleagues, like me, have lived abroad. One reason that Americans tend not to learn foreign languages is that they have relatively little need to; it's not a matter of some level of ability lower than that of Europeans. Most Americans don't live cheek-by-jowl with nations where languages other than English are spoken, but those who do -- those who live near the Mexican border, for example -- tend to get along well in Spanish.

In any case, as someone pointed out earlier, Grace Kelly never did become fluent and comfortable in French. It is also true that Diana, the late Princess of Wales, was very poorly educated, having not been able to complete the minimum British educational requirements. Not only did she not earn any A-Levels, which are normally pursued only by the university-bound in the UK, she didn't get any O-Level exams (now called the GCSE's) and left school at 16.

I heard few complaints about that in 1981. In fact, I was one of the few people I knew who thought Diana's poor education might be a problem, but my views were utterly dismissed. I think it WAS an issue, I think it contributed to the failure of the marriage for a couple of reasons, but most other people still don't raise it as a contributory factor.

But Diana and Charles barely knew each other, whereas Ms. Wittstock and Prince Albert have been involved for years. Moreover, most South Africans I know speak both English and Afrikaans, meaning that Ms. Wittstock may already be bilingual. In any case, it wasn't until fairly recently that anyone felt that princesses needed to be well-educated. Catherine, the Duchess of Cambridge, is, I believe, the very first woman with a university degree to marry into the immediate family circle of the British monarch (some of the wives of extended royal family members do have advanced educations), so that it may be a little unfair to complain about Ms. Wittstock's educational background. Perhaps she should be given a chance to show what she can do. After all, her public profile hasn't been very high up to now. I'm not sure I can judge her merely on the basis of her lack of much academic accomplishment.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

ON bew photos site, there are some photos of Charlene when she was young and on other sites belga pictures there are photos of former teachers of Charlene, I saw already these persons because there was a documentary on Kate and Charlene. Those teachers showed the notes she had at school, she was a good shoolgirl.I hoped you will can see this documentary because I feel you don't think me

Thanks for the heads up melina-premiere...I can't wait to see this!

vittoria...excellent post, thank you! Even though there are a few posters who are condemning CW as a failure based on her lack of education, I am not one of them.

I actually don't necessarily see a problem with the fact that she has no university degree.

My sole criticism of her so far has simply been this....she has lived in a foreign country for a little over five years, and obviously has not made it a priority to become proficient in the native language.

I am far from being a scholar, but I don't think one needs to be one to be completely baffled by that.

People who think I am using this one issue to condemn her to failure are...put bluntly...barking up the wrong tree.

I think she is gorgeous. I think she is stylish. I think she loves Albert I think she is likeable...BUT SHE SHOULD BE SPEAKING FRENCH FAIRLY WELL BY NOW...that is all.

 

[Renata4711]

Moonmaiden, I'm glad that you are able to put the important language-related point across.

Only very few people on these threads see it as essential.
But at least you and I can see how elementary this problem is for CW.

But, in my view it's the crux of the matter.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Renata4711, I am in definite agreement with you. Perhaps she doesn't need a degree if she doesn't want one, but she does need to speak the language of the country that she is going to be Princess of and represent to the world.

But hey, what do we know. I am sure we are just pointing out the obvious because we are jealous.

 

[Renata4711]

I don't think any of us need be jealous in the least !

Think back to the legal wrangles Caroline had to go through in order to get some privacy for herself and her kids.

Some of you out there might be able to weather these kinds of storm, but I know I couldn't.

Charlene is perhaps more of a combative or persistent type who can battle against the press packs and come out unscathed.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Wealthy and completely anonymous?? My idea of Paradise.

Rich and famous? Never, ever!!! I would rather be in a Federal penitentiary, or under some sort of Witness Protection Program....I would NEVER want to live my life under those conditions.

 

[NotHRH]

People will always question this future princess-consort of Monaco about her lack of a piece of paper that would only state and not prove, her past abilities to absorb information on a given subject/topic.
You all are not grasping at straws now, and this CW/PA forum has become 'overdone,' Why all the fuss about CW not learning/speaking in the French language? Whats difference does it make to all of you? Her lack of abilities, according to
some, will not amount to a hill of beans in our lives.
I have read many complaints about CW.
In the whole scheme of life, it is really not that worthy to 'belly ache' about CW. With time comes inevitable change, no matter our emotions. This whole situation about CW not speaking in French, simply will not affect our lives in any way.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Nothing about any of these people we post about at TRF will affect our lives in any way NotHRH.

But this is a MESSAGE BOARD.

It's simply a place to exchange opinions. We often don't agree, and the exchange of opinions and ideas becomes heated.

I don't get why some people find it overwhelming....it really isn't.

 

[NotHRH]

Nothing about any of these people we post about at TRF will affect our lives in any way NotHRH.

But this is a MESSAGE BOARD.

It's simply a place to exchange opinions. We often don't agree, and the exchange of opinions and ideas becomes heated.

I don't get why some people find it overwhelming....it really isn't.

I have read your post and do agree that this is a discussion board and everyone will voice their opinions about CW/PA. I was only voicing my own opinions on the subject.

 

[COUNTESS]

Nothing we discuss here, will amount to a hill of bean in our lives. To the Europeans, there is their heritage and how they feel about royals, today. To, Americans, we are just sightseeing a concept that is pretty, but meaningless.

 

[Nadine]

A close up on a picture shown by Sandra Jakobi, former swimming teacher of Charlene Wittstock, and taken from school pictures of Charlene (top R) on June 15, 2011 at Farrarmere Primary school in Benoni, South Africa. Prince Albert II of Monaco and his South African swimming champion fiancee Charlene Wittstock will celebrate their wedding over two days on July 2 and 3.
Fast, Free Image Hosting - ImageBam

Omgosh, thanks so much, Florencia, for providing this picture in particular!

I've never before seen pics of Charlene as a pre-teen, by my calculations she must have been 12 yrs. old in that picture, and already a champion!

How fascinating to look back and see what a future princess-to-be looked like before all the fame & glamour, et al. By the way, the first thing I thought when I saw that picture was this one:
http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Fall05/greene/Diana3.gif

and then these ones:

http://cdn.theroyalforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=132697&d=1114551055

http://cdn.theroyalforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=132762&d=1114552364



So poignant and touching...

 

[NotHRH]

Nothing we discuss here, will amount to a hill of bean in our lives. To the Europeans, there is their heritage and how they feel about royals, today. To, Americans, we are just sightseeing a concept that is pretty, but meaningless.

Yes, Countess, unless you are Monegasque royalty(?), I fail to see how this situation will affect your life in any way. Miss Wittstock's (lack of) French-speaking ability should only be HSH's worry.
Where does your heritage come into this situation? Why the worry about Miss CW at all? Why, in this post, have some expressed anger toward Miss CW? Why do some take it so personally? Envy, or the impression of envy, is given in many anti-CW rants in this thread ? Am I wrong to come to that conclusion?

 

[Moonmaiden23]

I think CW is beautiful, stylish and kind. But because I am confused that she cannot speak French after five years I am an envious, angry CW hater?

As for our opinions not amounting to a "hill of beans".. that pretty much goes without saying.

Using that line of logic, why post how excited we are about the wedding? It will happen whether we are happy about it or not.

Why go to the British Forum and debate whether the Queen should abdicate in a few years??

After all, it's none of our business and our opinion doesn't count...and so on and so on.

There are no doubt some rather vicious anti-CW posters here. Their bitterness and resentment of her seems extreme and even irrational. But those are a handful of posters on the fringe with an axe to grind...and are probably best ignored.

Posters who simply feel very disappointed that CW has not made different use of her 5+ years in Monaco are not necessarily anti-Charlene...and we realize that it has no direct bearing on our lives.

Nothing at TRF does.

 

[rosana]

Yes, Countess, unless you are Monegasque royalty(?), I fail to see how this situation will affect your life in any way. Miss Wittstock's (lack of) French-speaking ability should only be HSH's worry.
Where does your heritage come into this situation? Why the worry about Miss CW at all? Why, in this post, have some expressed anger toward Miss CW? Why do some take it so personally? Envy, or the impression of envy, is given in many anti-CW rants in this thread ? Am I wrong to come to that conclusion?

Yes you are wrong, and your previous post was deleted for calling us "envious". But as this is a forum I don´t see why I should not express how lazy and inconsiderate she has been not to take trouble to learn French. We haven´t even seen she´s made an effort. How? By finishing school for instance, by taking courses. Instead, she gives the impression of being extremely superficial and shallow and only care about her psysical appearance. It is not worry at all. I could not care less about Miss Witstock. I would have liked someone really prepared for the role, not just to have a heir and smile, as someone said.

 

[NotHRH]

I think CW is beautiful, stylish and kind. But because I am confused that she cannot speak French after five years I am an envious, angry CW hater?

As for our opinions not amounting to a "hill of beans".. that pretty much goes without saying.

Using that line of logic, why post how excited we are about the wedding? It will happen whether we are happy about it or not.

Why go to the British Forum and debate whether the Queen should abdicate in a few years??

After all, it's none of our business and our opinion doesn't count...and so on and so on.

There are no doubt some rather vicious anti-CW posters here. Their bitterness and resentment of her seems extreme and even irrational. But those are a handful of posters on the fringe with an axe to grind...and are probably best ignored.

Posters who simply feel very disappointed that CW has not made different use of her 5+ years in Monaco are not necessarily anti-Charlene...and we realize that it has no direct bearing on our lives.

Nothing at TRF does.

No Moonmaiden,
My statement was referring to those who expressed an almost 'irrational,' to use your adjective, anger toward Miss CW.
I do read and try to understand other points of view; discussion is the basis of this forum. An almost 'hatred' of Miss CW, or any one else, a poster or any (future) royal, should not be allowed in these forums under any thread - ever. Disagreement, yes. Hatred, no.

 

[vittoria]

I'm beginning to wonder why some people here are so convinced that Charlene Wittstock does NOT speak French. Perhaps, before this thread continues, we should establish with certainty that she is unable to speak any French and that she has, as yet, made no effort to learn it.

Of course she must learn the native language of her new country, but so far, I'm not seeing any clear evidence on this site that she knows no French.

One of her problems may have been, for some years, a lack of confidence that Albert would ever marry her. Some might claim that learning French would have helped, but I doubt it. Given the Monegasque royals' history, I don't think Albert's decision to marry her had anything to do with what languages she spoke, nor should it have.

And let's remember that for many centuries, princesses married into countries in which they did not know the native tongue. It's actually rather a standard trope of royal history.

By the way: how good is Crown Princess Mary's Danish, and how good is Princess Maxima's Dutch? From what I understand, from Danish and Dutch colleagues, neither lady is really fluent and comfortable in the language of the country into which she has married.

 

[Victoria's Secret]

Charlene is already fluent in two languages (English and Afrikaans). Her ability to speak Afrikaans, interestingly, means she could comfortably also communicate with Dutch- and Flemish-speaking people in their native tongues. I think it's safe to assume that she does speak a little French (she has said so herself), and understands perhaps more. I do realize how important it is for her to be fluent in French, and I hope that she's going to make an effort. I suspect she will. But I doubt that she will speak French in public until such time that she feels completely confident. It's so easy to be misunderstood/misquoted in your own language –– let alone a foreign one!