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  #301  
Old 08-02-2012, 04:04 AM
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Please stay respectful towars each other - as always opinions can differ!
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  #302  
Old 08-02-2012, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by rosana View Post
Btw, there is so much fuss here on CW achievements that I became curious about how and where they took place. I went through the 15 pages on this thread and couldnīt find a link, picture, statement, other than wikipedia, that assured CW had won medals or championships. Could any oCharlene Wittstock | Who's Who SAf you provide believable links? I would appreciate it.
You can search Charlene's results at Commonwealth Games here, this page doesn't allow to make a direct link, but write Wittstock to the search. You will see Charlene's single results and her winning silver at the relay in 2002.
Commonwealth Games Federation - Search Atheletes, Games, Countries, Medals and Games Results

Charlene's three gold medals in swimming World Cup 2002 are mentioned at the official site of the Palace of Monaco.
Biographical details for Ms. Charlene Lynette Wittstock - Prince’s Palace of Monaco
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  #303  
Old 08-02-2012, 05:59 AM
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Interesting links, thank you for posting!
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  #304  
Old 08-02-2012, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by rosana View Post
Btw, there is so much fuss here on CW achievements that I became curious about how and where they took place. I went through the 15 pages on this thread and couldnīt find a link, picture, statement, other than wikipedia, that assured CW had won medals or championships. Could any of you provide believable links? I would appreciate it.
At the 2002 Commonwealth Games in Manchester, Charlene was a member of the silver-medal winning 4x100m medley relay South African team (screen cap of Comm Games website with details). Here is a photo of the relay team with their silver medal - Charlene is on the left.

While she was not the overall 2002-2003 SC World Cup meet winner, Charlene placed first in the 100m backstroke at the Melbourne meet held in December 2002 (final timing sheet) and place second in the 200m backstroke (final timing sheet). Same with the 2001-2002 SC World Cup meet, she didn't win the overall meet, but came first in the 200m backstroke at the Stockholm meet (final timing sheet).

The winners of each individual event do not get a medal, instead they receive prize money and points to go towards their position on the overall World Cup meet leader board. This is how these World Cup meets are run now, I'm not 100% sure if they were run the same way when Charlene competed, or if each winner actually got a medal.

This website provides a list of all the various meets that Charlene participated in, when you click on the location it will take you to a list of the various events (typically scroll all the way down for 'Wittstock' as it's listed alphabetically) and the results.
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  #305  
Old 08-02-2012, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
I can't believe my asking if she got a medal has turned into this.
Really? Don't be disingenuous. What you actually posted [at #273] was "Did Charlene even win a medal?! ... If you don't get a medal ... then your [sic] just one of thousands who showed up, competed, lost and went on to party."

Not quite the innocent "Did Charlene win a medal?" question you're now making it out to be.
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  #306  
Old 08-02-2012, 12:07 PM
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Right on Warren!!!You said it beautifully.
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  #307  
Old 08-02-2012, 12:34 PM
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What did Charlene do career-wise after she gave up competitive swimming? What did she study at university?
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  #308  
Old 08-02-2012, 12:40 PM
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She did not go to university.
As far as I know she continued with her swim career, on and off due to injuries, until finally retiring in 2008 when she failed to make the SA Olympic team in 2008. She had regained her national championship in backstroke in 2007 but was not chosen for the 2008 team. By that time she was involved with Albert and the rest you probably know......Princess Consort of Monaco.
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  #309  
Old 08-02-2012, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
She did not go to university.
As far as I know she continued with her swim career, on and off due to injuries, until finally retiring in 2008 when she failed to make the SA Olympic team in 2008. She has regained her national championship in backstroke in 2007 but was not chosen for the 2008 team. By that time she was involved with Albert and the rest you probably know......Princess Consort of Monaco.
Wouldn't even have bothered answering that question if I wad you I think the person asking already knew the answer and asked it to make a point.
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  #310  
Old 08-02-2012, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Really? Don't be disingenuous. What you actually posted [at #273] was "Did Charlene even win a medal?! ... If you don't get a medal ... then your [sic] just one of thousands who showed up, competed, lost and went on to party."

Not quite the innocent "Did Charlene win a medal?" question you're now making it out to be.
.
So you're ignoring the fact that I actually asked the question DID SHE WIN A FREAKIN MEDAL! The answer is no, she placed 5th at her highest, which indeed makes her just like the other 98% who went competed but didnt win. Whatever I'm done with this crap. I said what I said and I meant it. That she made it 5th is better than being 10th or 24th.
It's an achievement but not placing is relevant.
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  #311  
Old 08-02-2012, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by angela View Post
Wouldn't even have bothered answering that question if I wad you I think the person asking already knew the answer and asked it to make a point.
Lucky me then that NGalitzine is so well mannered as to answer a genuine question. I was on my mobile if you must know and just couldn't be bothered to go looking for the information. God forbid I should ask a question of others with more knowledge than me.
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  #312  
Old 08-02-2012, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JessRulz View Post
At the 2002 Commonwealth Games in Manchester, Charlene was a member of the silver-medal winning 4x100m medley relay South African team (screen cap of Comm Games website with details). Here is a photo of the relay team with their silver medal - Charlene is on the left.

Thank you all for the links!! I had never seen her with a medal (in a team, well, better than nothing, thatīs something). But where are the 3 golden medals the palace states she won?
There should be some pics around.
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  #313  
Old 08-02-2012, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rosana View Post
Thank you all for the links!! I had never seen her with a medal (in a team, well, better than nothing, thatīs something). But where are the 3 golden medals the palace states she won?
There should be some pics around.
Actually the Palace has it as 4 Gold, and one Silver.

I wrote some of the info on Charlene's Wikipedia page about her swimming career and it came directly from Rocco Meiring the National Coaching Director of the South African Swimming federation from 1998 to 2005. He was one of her coaches and stated "she struggled with chronic injuries which restricted her from competing from May 2004 to December 2004." One of those injuries was her shoulder that continued to give her trouble up until the time she decided to quit.

All you needed to do was look for the photo to see the GOLD MEDAL hanging around her neck. BTW this one isn't on the list the Palace has so the total count would be 5.
Photo caption reads
Quote:
11 September 1999, South African swimmer Charlene Wittstock is the first swimmer to win gold at this years All Africa Games. She won the womens 100 metres freestyle this afternoon.

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  #314  
Old 08-02-2012, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by rosana View Post
Are we lost in translation here? Iīm not an English native speaker, but still...I donīt know what you understand by "achievement", this is what I found, If you have a better definition please provide it.

1: the act of achieving : accomplishment
2
a : a result gained by effort
b : a great or heroic deed

3: the quality and quantity of a student's work



Examples:
  1. The discovery of DNA was a major scientific achievement.
  2. It was a great achievement.
  3. Getting the project done on time was a real achievement
Achievement - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary



Participating in Olympics is a merit and an honor after having done a great effort, but it is hardly an accomplishment/achievement. In the case of an Oscar nominee much less. I dont think they have in mind to be nominated while they are shooting, so howīcan it be considered an achievement if we understand by the definition it is an action, a goal to be completed!???

As for CW leaving her career, she did nothing substantial after that.
When a Special Olympian reaches the finishes line it is an achievement. When a young child learns to spell or write,properly, it is an achievement. Winning a gold at the All Africa Games is an achievement. And being able to swim faster than a good part of the world for an Olympic Sport is an achievement. Achievements come big and small. That you write English as well as you do is an achievement.

Swimming, is hardly a career. It is a sport and unlike basketball or baseball, no one pays money to watch swimmers. It is not that type of sport.

What have Caroline, Stephanie, Camilla or Kate to name a few have done? No royal works. Cutting ribbons and going to balls is not work. My definition.
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  #315  
Old 08-02-2012, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rosana View Post
Thank you all for the links!! I had never seen her with a medal (in a team, well, better than nothing, thatīs something). But where are the 3 golden medals the palace states she won?
There should be some pics around.
See this is where I'm not 100% sure. The bio states that she won "three gold medals at the swimming World Cup" in 2002. The 2002 SC World Cup was held in Russia in April '02, where Charlene only made one final - the 4x100m medley relay, where South Africa placed fifth (final timing sheet).

They might mean the 2002-2003 SC World Cup series, which like I said, is a series of meets held in a year. Points are awarded for the swimmers who make the final of each event, which go towards their overall World Cup points total (Charlene never won the overall). No relays are undertaken at these World Cups.

The palace may have merged the 2001-2002 and 2002-2003 World Cups to just be '2002'; Charlene placed first in the following events at these two World Cup series, which may be the bio's "three gold medals":
However, to my knowledge, today the winners of each individual event do not get a medal (instead, prize money and points towards the overall leader board). FINA may have awarded medals for each winner when Charlene was competing, but I can't say for certain (I will try and find out though). The palace may have assumed because she placed first in these events, she got a medal.

The bio also lists her as having won the 50m and 100m crawl, which is freestyle (unless they mean 'back crawl', which would be backstroke). Charlene was a backstroke swimmer, not a freestyle swimmer and her name appears on none of the timing sheets for any freestyle event. So, the palace has made a mistake there either way - either by being wrong, or by not being specific enough.

She did win the 200m backstroke in the 2000 Mare Nostrum meet in Monte-Carlo, as the palace states (final results).

Finding pictures of some of these events (particularly the World Cup series) may be difficult - the image I posted of Charlene at the 2002 Comm Games was the only one I could find, and that was a major international sporting event.
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  #316  
Old 08-03-2012, 01:02 AM
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[QUOTE]
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Originally Posted by JessRulz View Post
The bio also lists her as having won the 50m and 100m crawl, which is freestyle (unless they mean 'back crawl', which would be backstroke). Charlene was a backstroke swimmer, not a freestyle swimmer and her name appears on none of the timing sheets for any freestyle event. So, the palace has made a mistake there either way - either by being wrong, or by not being specific enough.
Photo caption
Quote:
1 September 1999, South African swimmer Charlene Wittstock swimming freestyle
Getty Images

Commonwealth Games Silver medalist
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  #317  
Old 08-03-2012, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
When a Special Olympian reaches the finishes line it is an achievement. When a young child learns to spell or write,properly, it is an achievement. Winning a gold at the All Africa Games is an achievement. And being able to swim faster than a good part of the world for an Olympic Sport is an achievement. Achievements come big and small. That you write English as well as you do is an achievement.

Swimming, is hardly a career. It is a sport and unlike basketball or baseball, no one pays money to watch swimmers. It is not that type of sport.

What have Caroline, Stephanie, Camilla or Kate to name a few have done? No royal works. Cutting ribbons and going to balls is not work. My definition.
It is a widespread concept that royals "do not work". Just enjoy. I am not entirely sure since we never got to know exactly what their duties consist of in the patronages and charities they represent. They probably study, read, familiarize, probably donīt. Camilla and esp. P Anne do represent many of these and I assume it takes a lot of "work" or hours a day. Same with Caroline.
I have a special sympathy for Stephanie because she tried other things in which she was not successful, she was lost between fashion and music, she even opened a store. And Iīd better not start with Charlene and Kate. I do not consider that training 3/4 hours a day is a job. Most of Argentinian Olimpians have a job because they got so little support from the government.

Thanks for the info Jessluz
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  #318  
Old 08-03-2012, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by LadyMacAlpine View Post
Photo caption Getty Images

Quote:
1 September 1999, South African swimmer Charlene Wittstock swimming freestyle
Commonwealth Games Silver medalist
I wonder how often she actually competed in freestyle later in her career (after 2000), (according to the other photo caption at Getty, she won the 100m freestyle at the 1999 All Africa Games).

She does not appear on any freestyle time sheets in relation to the dates (2001/2002) the palace claims she won those events in, so they have not been specific enough (calling it 'crawl' instead of 'back crawl'/backstroke). So while she did competitively swim freestyle at some point, during this period, she did not.
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  #319  
Old 08-03-2012, 03:36 AM
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In my post 265, I send you photos and an article about the races where she won a medal.
On Getty images site, you click -Charlčne Wittstock in 1997, 1998, and so in the case and you will get photos of Charlene in different races during the year you want to see, it is not so difficult, I think.
If there were Andrea or Charlotte or Pierre, some people would have kiss the water of the pool, She is the usurpater also all about Charlene is to critic, the career, the swimming, the interview( the last interview on CNN with Piers Morgan was fine, but nobody is speaking) from the beginning in 2006 by the same people.
These comments begin to be boring, we are turning in round as we are saying in my country
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  #320  
Old 08-03-2012, 04:16 AM
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Charlene has by no means been a superstar of swimming like Kirsty Coventry or her Australian or US counterparts.

Still, if I was good enough to be taking part in the Olympics in whatever category I would be proud as hell for the rest of my life. Of course its an achievement. There is nothing bigger than the Olympics.

The Jamaican bobsled team comes to my mind. It doesnt matter where you finish or win a medal (unless you are Michael Phelps) the main thing is to participate. I'd be one of those who had a tattoo of the five rings done and proudly wear it, no doubt about that!
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