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  #601  
Old 08-06-2007, 03:02 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henri M. View Post
Maybe you have the idea of monarchs actually ruling a country. About a Prince or a King giving orders, etc.

In fact they have excellent ministers and civil servants who taka care for a proper working of the state's institutions, the public works, the social security, the police, the health care, etc.

The Prince of Monaco is no exception in that. If a citizen stops the Prince to complain about a broken sewer in High Street, the Prince would turn to his secretary of Public Works and say: "I thought you were paid to solve this? Why am I bothered with this?"

And that is how it works. And how it should work. The Prince of Monaco is just The Prince. It is his principlaity and there are lots of people governing and administrating it, out of his name. He can swim a few lines with Charlene without making too much fuss about 'ruling'.

When I say "RULE" I don't mean the official aspects of it, I mean the more traditional aspects of it. He is NOT 'ruling' the way his father did. He wishes to date and live with his prospective, flaunt what he will, behave the way he will ... he intends to be the person he wants to be and use his position as Prince to make it okay. After all, he is the one making the "rules" of his behavior now ... no longer his father !

I know about government and politics .. was not talking about those decisions!

About Charlene and Albert, so what if he says "distant future"? Who knows what that means? A week? A Month? Ten years? It is a very vague statement from a man trying to buy back some privacy. But privacy was his until he and Charlene gave it away. I think there is all sorts of stuff going on in behind the scenes that we all don't know about. Language classes for Charlene, protocol classes, etc ... One can tell she has been undergoing some sort of changes because of the more classic way her make-up and hair are being done and the clothing .. well, designer all the way, not something she could afford on her own.

All the surprise of this union has gone away .. okay .. he is dating her, it's out of the bag now!!! But I think they are trying to build up some suspense by giving out vague statements and conflicting stories .. it keeps them in the news and all of us speculating ... which is partly what the media is for ... HYPE!

Albert might have indicated no marriage plans .. but he also dated a few other women when Charlene was gone after making those statements and he MUST have missed her or something .. because she came back ... in full force and is by his side all the time, barely swims for someone "in training for the Olympics" and has a car, clothes, and living accommodations of someone entering the civil list.

Rosalee
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  #602  
Old 08-06-2007, 07:36 AM
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Well, a lot of people who like to see them married explain what is going on behind the scene with her being prepared. If that was true, we would have seen more improvement then her wearing designer clothes. Anyone moving in those circles can get their hands on them and the salesclercs in the boutiques are usually equipped with a good eye... though I have to say that IMO wearing designer clothes doesn't make you a princess and more often then not she has been wearing the wrong outfit for the occasion. So that means someone is helping her with the choice of clothes to suit her physique, but at the same time no one seems to be helping her out by informing her about the appropriateness of the outfit. That would be part of MMe Gallicos job, who most significantly of all, has ceased to be at her side on official occasions. The only times she was there was at the exhibition opening in honour of Grace and at the Red Cross Ball. And unlike last year she was seated far away from Charlene, whereas last year she was seated closeby to be able to give assistance. To me that is the most significant sign that she is indeed not at all in training otherwise the most experienced person in matters of protocol would be advising her, watching her and afterwards telling her what needs to be improved. Especially during the Small games were she was meeting with other heads of state or their representatives. Especially there it would have been necessary for Mme Gallico to be present to help out with questions of protocol as that would be important in the future too, if indeed she should marry Albert. If there is anything going on behind the scenes, then it is surely not any preparation of her or any festivities. That can be put up rather quickly. A power struggle yes that is certainly going on behind the scene as we know from Alberts latest address to the people. Charlenes presence surely plays part in it one way or the other, but is only marginal.

Why don't we just accept things as they are being said and Albert really has for the moment no intention of getting married, for whatever reasons. I don't think that it is Alberts intention to create a Hype around what he considers to be his private life. Also a Hype is usually short lived. From all official talk and if we are to trust it, there won't be anything until way into next year. No hype has ever lasted that long. I think a wedding announcement at whatever time will be totally sufficient to create enough hype for the media and those interested to last some time. So there is no need to create it way in advance, unless there is no advance but instead an end and someone needs publicity in order to manage a restart. why would Albert be touring the US alone, leaving the Red Cross Ball alone if he was head over heels in love with Charlene and on the brink of getting married? Yes Charlene barely swam for someone making public claims about participating at the Olympics. Why did she come back after those women? Because he called and she didn't have anything else to do. And besides, which woman does not feel flattered when the ex calls and wants to give it another try (or whatever?) Why did he call? Because maybe being seen with the same woman instead of every time a new woman by his side would make him appear more serious and less of a playboy? Maybe that was her condition for coming back that she would be seen in public by his side and not being hidden, to make a statement towards those other women? I am sure they both get sth out of it, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it, but whether that necessarily leads to a wedding....? I guess this time next year we shall know a little more.
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  #603  
Old 08-06-2007, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paca View Post
Well, a lot of people who like to see them married explain what is going on behind the scene with her being prepared. If that was true, we would have seen more improvement then her wearing designer clothes. Anyone moving in those circles can get their hands on them and the salesclercs in the boutiques are usually equipped with a good eye... though I have to say that IMO
Quote:
IMO too
wearing designer clothes doesn't make you a princess and more often then not she has been wearing the wrong outfit for the occasion. So that means someone is helping her with the choice of clothes to suit her physique, but at the same time no one seems to be helping her out by informing her about the appropriateness of the outfit. That would be part of MMe Gallicos job, who most significantly of all, has ceased to be at her side on official occasions. The only times she was there was at the exhibition opening in honour of Grace and at the Red Cross Ball. And unlike last year she was seated far away from Charlene, whereas last year she was seated closeby to be able to give assistance. To me that is the most significant sign that she is indeed not at all in training otherwise the most experienced person in matters of protocol would be advising her, watching her and afterwards telling her what needs to be improved.
Quote:
Great I second
Especially during the Small games were she was meeting with other heads of state or their representatives. Especially there it would have been necessary for Mme Gallico to be present to help out with questions of protocol as that would be important in the future too, if indeed she should marry Albert. If there is anything going on behind the scenes, then it is surely not any preparation of her or any festivities. That can be put up rather quickly. A power struggle yes that is certainly going on behind the scene as we know from Alberts latest address to the people.
Quote:
I said it too
Charlenes presence surely plays part in it one way or the other, but is only marginal.
Quote:
Yes
Why don't we just accept things as they are being said and Albert really has for the moment no intention of getting married, for whatever reasons. I don't think that it is Alberts intention to create a Hype around what he considers to be his private life. Also a Hype is usually short lived. From all official talk and if we are to trust it, there won't be anything until way into next year. No hype has ever lasted that long. I think a wedding announcement at whatever time will be totally sufficient to create enough hype for the media and those interested to last some time. So there is no need to create it way in advance, unless there is no advance but instead an end and someone needs publicity in order to manage a restart. why would Albert be touring the US alone, leaving the Red Cross Ball alone if he was head over heels in love with Charlene and on the brink of getting married? Yes Charlene barely swam for someone making public claims about participating at the Olympics. Why did she come back after those women? Because he called and she didn't have anything else to do.
Quote:
He wants her... hidden or not
And besides, which woman does not feel flattered when the ex calls and wants to give it another try (or whatever?) Why did he call? Because maybe being seen with the same woman instead of every time a new woman by his side would make him appear more serious and less of a playboy? Maybe that was her condition for coming back that she would be seen in public by his side and not being hidden, to make a statement towards those other women? I am sure they both get sth out of it, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it, but whether that necessarily leads to a wedding....? I guess this time next year we shall know a little more.
I uess that this time next year we shall know a little more... I guess that he has no choice now... making his job... in Monaco
  #604  
Old 08-06-2007, 10:49 AM
MyAdia's Avatar
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South Africa Sunday Independent article about CW training

Well for my own good, my Internet access is restricted to about an hour a day (and I much prefer catching up on the news than this saga). I must say, my interest is slowing waning about this so-called love story, but I still have this strong desire to know the ending of this saga. I will do something that I so discourage when others do it, judge Charlene by her looks on pictures - after viewing pictures and videos of the Red Cross ball, her spirit seemed gone and her eyes looked really sad. Unlike the joyous, smug, and "I'm the center of attention" look CW had last year, this year she seemed to have the same forced smile (except when she was heading for the dance floor with the possible hopes of dancing with Albert and making the tabloid shot that most likely would have been splashed across every the cover of every tabloid as dying proof that a wedding is imminent for the "love birds"). But, after reading some articles about Albert traveling in the U.S., I can now understand her looks. I am assuming CW wasn’t part of the entourage, because I have this sinking feeling that she would have done a Turin number and made her position known as his girlfriend. Besides, CW is really not a media interest in the U.S., so no one would have been looking out for her or inquiring about her.

After reading this August 5th article in the South Africa Sunday Independent, it seems that CW was left in Monaco (her coach came to Monaco this weekend). Doesn't seem like a love story that I am used to - separate vacations. If she has been rehabilitating for three months from an injury (yes, that's why she wasn't training and competing in Europe as she bragged in April why she was coming to Europe), why couldn't she wait for one week?

This SA article is very interesting and the comments from the coach are extremely predictable (well from those of us that saw CW as an opportunist based on her comments and performance at Turin). Obviously, I cannot post the entire article, but I posted statements that haven't been published before (I'll send Paca the article and she can summarize anything else). If she had a serious injury wasn't it there in Feb 2006 when she bragged to Paris Match that her only goal is to train for the Olympic? Why bring the injury up now? I would love to hear explanations about the conditions which this coach just happened to be talking to this reporter. Last fall in response to press reports that CW and Albert were no longer a couple, this coach stated that Albert and she talk on the phone all the time and that Albert is CW's biggest supporter. I'm sorry, but Charlene is coming across more like Diana now with her manipulations of the press.

Actually, after reading this article and others about CW's younger swimming days to make ends meet, I am starting to really understand her more. I like the fighter instinct in CW. CW clearly doesn't have the intellect to play a successful game that she is playing (perhaps she should talk to Wendi Deng Murdoch - extremely intelligent & crafty - she can write the book), but CW is a survival and plays the best game with what she has. As in the excerpts from her Park Avenue interview, CW stated, "she never gives up" (has anyone seen the actual article? Only summaries of the article were available on the Internet). I honestly believe that CW’s intention was always to try to cultivate a relationship with Prince Albert because she knew her Olympic career was over (nothing wrong with that), but she played the Olympic swan song (I think deceptively) because that is the only thing that she could claim as a career (and Albert seems to love swan songs). She has nothing to fall back on because she never developed a plan B, even after her 2004 Olympic plans fell through she didn't seem to plan for another future on her own merits. Since she implied in her Paris Match interview that she did very poorly in school (she stated that grades never mattered to her, only swimming), I don't think that she ever planned on going to college as another ex of Albert and former tabloid golden girl Alicia Warlick (who returned to Harvard and received her degree in economics when her Olympic career didn't pan out). But, Alicia stated on her website that her parents always stressed academics when she was growing up. It seems that CW's parents didn't. Now, Albert seems to be CW's plan B, hence why she is willing to put up with the Heathers and yacht girls.

With the right resources, any woman can be "trained" to be a princess based on the standards that many of the posters have set for a princess - look pretty, dress appropriate and nice for public duties, and have cute children. My critique of Albert and CW has always geared toward the relationship - they have not presented anything that shows that they can have a successful dynastic marriage. The "Princess job" is not separate from the wife. But, I always thought that Albert placed CW from the beginning in the non-marriageable category; that's why he didn't care about her talking to the press in the beginning (and the other women). Time will tell.

Quote:
SA swimming champ stars in new 'Grace Kelly' romance
BYLINE: Janet Smith

Branny Ivkovic, the man who coaches South African Olympic swimmer Charlene Wittstock, flew to Monaco this weekend. But he insists that he was not on his way to celebrate a clandestine engagement of his client to the principality's monarch, Prince Albert.

Ivkovic said he was merely joining Wittstock - who has been the prince's companion, on and off, for three years - for training.

Pnina Fenster, the editor of Glamour magazine, believes South African women "are among the most gorgeous in the world, so it's not surprising that Charlene Wittstock, with her poise and cool elegance, is being courted by Prince Albert and is starting to feature in the sights of the paparazzi".

"She's got no problem with who she is, or with the interest in her," Ivkovic said. "I don't know of any of her other plans. Of course, it can only be good for swimming if the swimmers become well-known."
...
Though a champion swimmer, Wittstock was little-known in South Africa until she and Albert began to attract attention in June at the opening ceremony of the Games of the Small States of Europe in Monte Carlo.
...
Ivkovic said Wittstock received medical treatment and underwent a lengthy physical rehabilitation in Monaco.
...
Fenster said that it remained to be seen what contribution Wittstock could make to the pantheon of European royals.
...
Wittstock earns an income, not disclosed, from swimming sponsorships but is not paid by Swimming South Africa. She would be well looked after if she married into the royal family of Monaco.
  #605  
Old 08-06-2007, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paca View Post
Why don't we just accept things as they are being said and Albert really has for the moment no intention of getting married, for whatever reasons. I don't think that it is Alberts intention to create a Hype around what he considers to be his private life. Also a Hype is usually short lived. From all official talk and if we are to trust it, there won't be anything until way into next year. No hype has ever lasted that long. I think a wedding announcement at whatever time will be totally sufficient to create enough hype for the media and those interested to last some time.
So far, the hype has lasted for 19 months or so and it doesn't look like dying out soon. Unfortunately.

MyAdia, thanks for posting. As it seems you'll be posting less or not at all: thanks for all your insightfull posts and I'm going to miss them in the future.

The Sunday Independent article has some holes in it, IMO. Poor Charlene's injuries have never ever been mentioned before in any of the countless interviews she's been giving. Odd that. And she was swimming happily in April this year. No injury then? Plus I have my doubts about the three year relationship. Seems a bit long. And odd that we have never heard of them before the Turin Olympics. More than a year they managed to keep the relationship hidden and suddenly they're public? And an income from swimming sponsorships? Wouldn't they require some actual swimming taking place?

Just MO.

MyAdia, any chance of PM-ing me the full article? Please?
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  #606  
Old 08-06-2007, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghislaine View Post
Actually, it doesn't. The constitution states only that
It further mentions thatIt goes on to mention some other eventualities, but this is the most relevant one. So the constitution doesn't mention anything about religion in relationship with the succession. It might be implied in art. 9 and the fact that the Monegaque sovereign rules by/with the grace of God, but it never says it explicitly. That's a fairytale invented by the tabloids. Here's the whole constitution (in French): http://www.gouv.mc/devwww/wwwnew.nsf...enDocument&3Fr
It seems that SA doesn't offer much in terms of education and athletes. However, some of Charlene's colleagues are training and studying in the US. She could have done that too if she wanted. I bet (US) universities would have been queueing outside her door to sign her up in 2000, should she have been interested.
Yes, she is still blabbing to the press. I've posted this before, but a diligent mod deleted it: her last interview dates from July 2007. Not exactly ancient, IMO.
Ghislaine-thanks so much for the great info on the Constitution and other matters. You are always a motherlode of info!
  #607  
Old 08-06-2007, 02:13 PM
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If Albert not supporting her or South Africa how she living. Who pay her bills. Why now talk about her swimming we haven't hear nothing about her swimming after she got injury. I think something going down and not marriage.
  #608  
Old 08-08-2007, 09:12 PM
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Exactly one year to Beijing Olympics

Today we are at exactly one year to the Beijing Olympics and I am clueless as to where CW stands in her hopes to compete.I am also clueless as to where Pa and Cw stand in their relationship which seems to be from Hamlet lately a " to be or not to be 'thing."Maybe the coming days will bring clarity.
But the Beijing Olympic countdown is on.
  #609  
Old 08-09-2007, 05:35 PM
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There is NO WAY Charlene is anywhere near competing form - all we see her doing is going to social events w/PA and mugging for the camera....when would she have time to train?! That takes years, she can't suddenly take a long weekend and get in competition form and win medals.
  #610  
Old 08-09-2007, 06:55 PM
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If Charlene train now she can be in top shape by the time Olympic comes.
  #611  
Old 08-10-2007, 08:04 AM
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An article about Charlene on LAHAMAGAZINE.
http://pdf.lahamag.com/pages/08-2007/359People02.pdf
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It was too good to be true...
  #612  
Old 08-10-2007, 09:13 AM
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Regrettably, I believe that Prince Albert has crumbled under the pressure that he has to get married and produce and heir, and allowed the media and others to force his hand into a loveless marriage.

From every photo I have ever seen of Prince Albert and Charlene, I see no mutual feelings of anything that resembles love. IMO that is so sad. Especially after we watched the horror of Charles and Diana do the same thing.

I believe that to PA, Charlene is just a uterus in high heels and to CW, PA is a meal ticket because she has nothing else to fall back on.

Whilst I still believe that CW is a terrible choice for PA and Monaco and my problems with her, as I have conveyed here in the past have nothing to do with what she looks like. As I have expressed, a lot of money, stylists, designers and make up artists can take the most unattractive girl and turn her into a stunning beauty. Just look at some of these Hollywood make-overs. My issues with CW are that she is 30 years old with the educational capacity and mentality of a 16 year old. IMO her behavior in many photos demonstrates her immaturity and lack of basic common sense. Second, her blatant dishonesty about claiming to train, taking money based on the premise that she is training for the Olympics, all the while just using all of this to build an image for herself so she appears to be a suitable mate for PA. IMO if CW is this much of a liar and manipulator now, imagine when she is in a position of power. Monaco doesn’t need anything like this. JMO

But that being said, it appears to be a done deal, IMO the Prince’s hand has been forced. My hunch is that an announcement will come when Nelson Mandela is in Monaco. The palace PR will spin a story about CW being involved in all kinds of fantasy charity work we never heard of before. There will be Photos of CW with PA and Nelson Mandela in an attempt to make it appear as if CW had a hand in setting this all up, and hence, must be capable to be Princess. She will be centerpiece of the entire Nelson Mandela visit. Caro and her charities will fade to the background. Notice there is something of Carl Lewis’ in the auction, they are tying in the Olympics already. It’s the ideal setting for the announcement. Everything else about this relationships looks artificial and well planned out, so why not this too? JMO

While I believe this union will lead to the biggest and ugliest public divorce down the road, I believe we now need to try and focus on the positive things that could come from this.

One good thing is that this situation could help PA to be more regularly involved with his other children. Nelson Mandela spent decades in jail and lost his own son fighting for the equality of blacks and whites. Perhaps PA is using Nelson Mandela to pave the way to bring his half black son Eric Alexandre into the palace of Monaco on a regular basis.. As a way to show that he stands with Nelson Mandela on these issues and will demonstrate to the world that he loves and publically spends time with his black son as much as what ever white children he may have with CW, (if she is even able to have children.) Could this be why he hand picked a girl from South Africa?

I just hope it doesn’t mean that Nicole is welcomed as well. I have no race issue with her, but I believe Nicole Coste is just as much of a manipulator and liar as Charlene Wittstock. I remember reading on these boards that PA’s sisters and friends tried to warn him about Nicole just as they’ve tried to warn him about Charlene. But PA likes to learn the hard lessons the hard way.

But as I said, lets try to focus on the postitive things that could come from PA and CW relationship.

On the postitive side CW could be the ticket for Eric Alexandre and Jazmine Grace into the Palace of Monaco. Monaco will be the multi-cultural royal family, like PA’s own little United Nations.
  #613  
Old 08-10-2007, 11:16 AM
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WindsorIII, I hope with all my heart that you're completely and utterly wrong! (Nothing personal , it's just that horror script you've been writing above.)<shudders>

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joumana View Post
An article about Charlene on LAHAMAGAZINE.
http://pdf.lahamag.com/pages/08-2007/359People02.pdf
Could someone translate? I can make nothing of this...
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  #614  
Old 08-10-2007, 11:28 AM
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It is a shame that CW have get the kids in palace. which I don't so, how do you know that Alex not coming now?
  #615  
Old 08-10-2007, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joumana View Post
An article about Charlene on LAHAMAGAZINE.
http://pdf.lahamag.com/pages/08-2007/359People02.pdf
I found it fascinating that they 'altered' Charlene's dress for this picture. Anyone else notice it ?

stacey k.
  #616  
Old 08-10-2007, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staceykaye View Post
I found it fascinating that they 'altered' Charlene's dress for this picture. Anyone else notice it ?

stacey k.
What else did they alter? If PA marries Charlene there will be LOTS of altering!
  #617  
Old 08-10-2007, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by staceykaye View Post
I found it fascinating that they 'altered' Charlene's dress for this picture. Anyone else notice it ?

stacey k.
I hadn't seen that. Why would they do that? Is that some sort of islamic censorship? To make it more decent or something? BTW, they lifted or raised Stéphanie's neckline too. Her dress was more low cut than on that photo. Mélanie's too.
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  #618  
Old 08-10-2007, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staceykaye View Post
I found it fascinating that they 'altered' Charlene's dress for this picture. Anyone else notice it ?

stacey k.
Yes and without being a muslim, I found that for whom she was with her neckline was not appropriate (not to mention that in my experience this type of dress is in the most danger of revealing bodyparts that you had no intention of revealing). But I am sure that a lot won't agree with me as most people are used to whatever Hollywood starlets or wannabe starlets are wearing today, which make Charlenes dress look like a nuns cloak
  #619  
Old 08-10-2007, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paca View Post
Yes and without being a muslim, I found that for whom she was with her neckline was not appropriate (not to mention that in my experience this type of dress is in the most danger of revealing bodyparts that you had no intention of revealing). But I am sure that a lot won't agree with me as most people are used to whatever Hollywood starlets or wannabe starlets are wearing today, which make Charlenes dress look like a nuns cloak

Windsor you can relax. There will BE NO ANNOUNCEMENT during the The Honorable Nelson Mandela's visit. I am certain that Ms Wittstock will be present, he is her countryman and she has on at least one occasion expressed admiration for him.

If CW and PA are to become engaged, I don't think it will be until after the Beijing Olympics next summer.

PS...Charlene's gown was okay for her to wear because she is rather flat chested. If she had more on top it would have been a little dicey. I think she looked perfectly appropriate for a gala evening on the French Riviera.
  #620  
Old 08-11-2007, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghislaine View Post
WindsorIII, I hope with all my heart that you're completely and utterly wrong! (Nothing personal , it's just that horror script you've been writing above.)<shudders>



Sorry Ghislaine, the two long commentaries I wrote yesterday both here and on the British thread didn’t go over well, I must have been in a very pessimistic mood.

Here I tried to make sense of all the "shoving Charlene down everyone’s throat" going on in Monaco, all the photos, the countless magazines, and reading all the roayl boards, etc.. as meaning its leading up to something and I tried to put myself in the mindset of those that want to see these two married.

Seeing as I am not one of those who think that “oh she looks pretty in that dress and therefore she should be princess” category, the “horror script” as you so impeccably described my prediction post yesterday is the best scenario I could come up with in finding anything positive that could come from this relationship between PA and CW.

Just to put your mind at ease Ghislaine , my psychic predictions for the future have about a 98% failure rate. Whenever I predict something is going to happen, my husband says “oh that’s the kiss of death, now it will never happen” Hence its best I wrote it.
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