Unidentified, Mystery and Lost Royal Jewels

[Sophus]

Originally Posted by felicia

In the Winterhalter portrait below, Queen Victoria is wearing her ''Sunray" tiara. I like it a lot. Where is it now? Does the royal family still have it? If not, why?

The tiara still belongs to the royal family - Queen Elizabeth II wore it at her wedding and so did Princess Anne, the Princess Royal at her wedding...

[felicia]

You mean the George III Fringe Tiara? I know about that one. I think the Tiara in the painting is a different tiara because it is called the Sunray Tiara. If you look closely you can see it is different from the George III Fringe Tiara.

[ZandraRae]

I also think that isn't the George III Fringe Tiara, but another.

[felicia]

I looked the painting up in the Munn Book and it is definitely NOT the George III Fringe Tiara that is still in the royal family. The latter tiara was made for Queen Mary, and in the painting the Diadem Queen Victoria is wearing was made for Queen Adelaide using diamonds supplied by Rundell's. So where is this stunning piece now, that Her Majesty was so fond of?????

[HRH Mims]

But in this webpage about Queen's wedding it says: "Wisely, the Princess rejected the usual heavy heirloom lace so often worn by Royal brides, and instead chose a flattering soft white tulle veil that was half the length of the train. With it she wore a small Russian style sunray fringe tiara and a single row of pearls."
From: www.fashionera.com
http://72.14.221.104/search?q=cache:...2&client=opera

[felicia]

Originally Posted by mims111

But in this webpage about Queen's wedding it says: "Wisely, the Princess rejected the usual heavy heirloom lace so often worn by Royal brides, and instead chose a flattering soft white tulle veil that was half the length of the train. With it she wore a small Russian style sunray fringe tiara and a single row of pearls."
From: www.fashionera.com
http://72.14.221.104/search?q=cache:...2&client=opera

I think that must be written by someone who didn't know that the tiara the Queen wore on her wedding day is called the George III Fringe Tiara, which I know for sure was made for Queen Mary, therefore it could not have been worn by Queen Victoria.

[Sophus]

Leslie Field writes about the King George III Fringe Tiara in her book "The Queen's Jewels" and one of the pictures showing this tiara is the Winterhalter painting of queen Victoria and prince Albert... In the book it is called both a fringe tiara and a sunray tiara... It is part of the jewels that passes from queen to queen left to the crown by Queen Victoria...

[felicia]

Well it seems to me that Munn's book indicates or says otherwise

[Sophus]

Originally Posted by felicia

Well it seems to me that Munn's book indicates or says otherwise

Sorry - but I can only tell what I have read...

[felicia]

Tiaras: A History of Splendour is very authoritative. I trust it is correct. Therefore the tiara in the painting is not the George III Fringe Tiara. They look different as well. The 'rays' are thicker and all the same width, unlike the George III Fringe Tiara, which has rays of thicker and thin widths alternating. You must look really closely to see this.

[HRH Mims]

HM Queen Elizabeth II in queen Alexandra's fringe tiara and in sunray tiara on her wedding day

pictures from Gettyimages

[felicia]

Originally Posted by mims111

HM Queen Elizabeth II in queen Alexandra's fringe tiara and in sunray tiara on her wedding day.

The first one is Queen Alexandra's Kokoshnik Tiara and the next is the George III Fringe Tiara. Neither is the one Queen Victoria is wearing in the painting. Which is a diadem made for Queen Adelaide. And I am wondering where is this sunray diadem now?

[Warren]

Originally Posted by mims111

HM Queen Elizabeth II in queen Alexandra's fringe tiara and in sunray tiara on her wedding day.

The fringe tiara design was very popular in its day, and virtually every Royal House has, or had, at least one. However, Queen Alexandra's Kokoshnik Tiara is not to be confused with a fringe tiara although its elements are similar.

The problem is identity and description. The British fringe tiara can be referred to as "the King George III fringe tiara", "the Hanoverian fringe tiara" or "the diamond fringe tiara". The term "sunray" is more appropriate when this particular tiara is worn in necklace form.

The difficulty with the Winterhalter portrait is, quoting Geoffrey Munn from the Wartski 'One Hundred Tiaras' catalogue: "Winterhalter does not seem to have been overly fond of jewellery". Therefore his depiction of the tiara is not necessarily accurate due to the application of artistic licence.

To add another element of mystery, in one of her official 1897 Diamond Jubilee photographs Queen Victoria is wearing a spiked sunray tiara which is obviously neither the fringe tiara nor the "Winterhalter sunray" tiara.

[felicia]

Yes Warren you are right. Queen Alexandra's tiara is not a fringe tiara. It is a kokoshnik in the Russian style. And I know the spiked tiara you are refering to in the jubilee photos, I am wondering what happened to that one as well.

Anway I have got out my copy of Tiaras: A History Of Splendour (aka The Bible ) and this is what it says next to the painting:

Plate 48: The First Of May, by Franz Xaver Winterhalter, 1851. At the opening of the Great Exhibition in Hyde Park, the Queen is attended by Prince Albert and the Duke of Wellington. In her arms is the infant Prince Arthur, who offers the Duke the traditional lilies of the valley. On the Queen's head is a diamond diadem of sunray form, said to have been set by Rundell's for Queen Adelaide using family diamonds. The diadem was one of Queen Victoria's special favourites, and she wore it with Queen Charlotte's crown for the opening of the exhibition.

(The Royal Collection. Copyright 2001 Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II)


Therefore it CAN NOT be the George III Fringe Tiara since in the same book it says on page 161 about the George III Fringe Tiara: She is wearing the Russian fringe tiara made for Queen Mary (refering to the Queen Mother wearing it). It is said to contain diamonds from the collection of King George III. The jewel, which can be convereted into a necklace, was supplied to Garrard in 1919 by E. Wolff and Co.

and later

Queen Mary's Russian fringe necklace/tiara mounted in gold, the damonds set in silver. When the tension is released at the back of the frame the tiara can be dismantled to form a flexible necklace. The present Queen has worn it as both.

Therefore, we can see that the George III fringe tiara was made in 1919 for Queen Mary, so it obviously cannot be worn by Queen Victoria in 1851! They are completely different pieces and that is a fact.

[felicia]

In the painting below, Her Majesty Queen Alexandrina VICTORIA is wearing the Sunray Diadem again. You can clearly see it is not at all similiar in appearance to the George III Fringe Tiara. But still my question has not been answered - where is the Tiara now and what happened to it? It was one of Queen Victoria's favourites.

[felicia]

Ayvee, I agree it does look remarkably similiar to the tiara that Victoria of Sweden wears nowadays. But since hers is called the Baden Fringe Tiara it is probably not the same one.

Perhaps it could have gone into the Swedish Royal Family if Queen Victoria had left it to her son Arthur and then he gave it to his daughter Margaret, Crown Princess of Sweden.

[Sophus]

Originally Posted by felicia

Ayvee, I agree it does look remarkably similiar to the tiara that Victoria of Sweden wears nowadays. But since hers is called the Baden Fringe Tiara it is probably not the same one.

Perhaps it could have gone into the Swedish Royal Family if Queen Victoria had left it to her son Arthur and then he gave it to his daughter Margaret, Crown Princess of Sweden.

I think the Baden Fringe Tiara was a wedding present to princess Victoria of Baden from har parents when she married crownprince Gustave (V) of Sweden...

[HRH Mims]

From Josephine's blog: Baden Fringe Tiara
This Tiara is called "Stråldiademet" at court but royal watchers called it the Baden Fringe Tiara. One can translate "Stråldiademet" to "The Sunray Diademe"
The tiara was made for Princess Viktoria of Baden as a wedding present when she married Crown Prince Gustaf in 1881.
you can find it here: http://swedish-royal-jewlery.blogspo...y_archive.html

[felicia]

So then it is not the same as the one Queen Victoria is wearing in the painting in 1851, but it is very similiar in design.

[HRH Mims]

I found these fringe's tiaras:
http://royal-jewels.blogspot.com/200...f-fringes.html
queen's tiaras: http://www.mandysroyalty.org/aTiaras.html