Tiaras and Jewels for the Next Generation

[maria-olivia]

yes Tilla , it is this small version of Queen Astrid's tiara.
Princess Lilian who could not wear the Queen's tiara wore it also as bandeau and put their huge diamonds as necklace...
Queen Paola's hairdresser said that is was so difficult to put the Nine Province tiara in her fine short hairs .
Queen Paola keeps her deco-tiara and her two small onces.
Until now Queen Mathilde has only 2 tiaras at her disposal.

 

[Josefine]

what i understand belgium will start up with new state visit but will there be with full gala

 

[maria-olivia]

Yes Josephine , Glitter again and a wonderful young and first belgian Queen !

 

[Stefan]

QEII cannot do anything with the "state jewellery". That which belongs to The Crown or the State is not hers to dispose of. She can do what she wants with her personal collections but anything she leaves to anyone except Charles will be subject to inheritance taxes. Anything she gives away now could be subject to gift taxes, and possibly inheritance tax should she die in less than 9 yrs if the gift was viewed as hoping to avoid such taxation. Exceptions could be made for birthday, wedding, Christmas gifts but distrubuting the entire collection might be looked at as an attempt to avoid tax.

But she could leave all her private Jewels to Charles and give Instructiions as to give certain samller necklaces/brooshes etc. as gifts to her other children/grandchildren as it is likely there will be more then 9 years before his death.

 

[Tilia C.]

Princess Astrid wore flowers on her hair on her wedding day no diamonds ; I think her daughters will do the same.
As for AD Magherita 's children did you remember the HUGE tiara her eldest daughter wore in Luwembourg ?

I hope that you are wrong about the flowers for Astrid's daughters ! When Princess Astrid got married in the 1980’s, bridal tiaras were not that fashionable. Maybe that is why she decided to wear flowers. It shouldn’t automatically mean that Princess Astrid’s daughters and daughters-in-law have to follow her suite. Not when both grandmothers have tiaras to loan and bridal tiaras are so popular now.

Oh yes, that gigantic ruby (?) tiara of the Countess of Arco-Zinnenberg! What an amazing piece! Unfortunately there were no HG pictures of her. But I read that the tiara belonged to her husband’s family, which is quite well off. Wouldn’t it be wonderful, it Felix and Claire’s wedding had a white tie and tiara gala as well? I know, it is not likely, but one can dream. I’d love to see more pictures of the Countess of Arco-Zinneberg with that whopper tiara.

 

[maria-olivia]

I hope also we will see that whopper tiara again.
The Countess of Arco -Z. wore the small Aosta tiara for her wedding.
Tilla C.perhaps for Princess Astrid's daughters ??

 

[Queen Camilla]

QEII cannot do anything with the "state jewellery". That which belongs to The Crown or the State is not hers to dispose of. She can do what she wants with her personal collections but anything she leaves to anyone except Charles will be subject to inheritance taxes. Anything she gives away now could be subject to gift taxes, and possibly inheritance tax should she die in less than 9 yrs if the gift was viewed as hoping to avoid such taxation. Exceptions could be made for birthday, wedding, Christmas gifts but distrubuting the entire collection might be looked at as an attempt to avoid tax.

The Crown/State Jewels for use by the daughters-in-law & granddaughters-in-laws and her private jewels given to her blood female relatives.

Beatrice turned 25 earlier this month, how about one or two of the Queen's personal tiaras & some pearls and brooches as birthday gifts. A few more when she gets married.

Eugenie same when she turns 25.

Louise some brooches now, pearls & tiaras to be given to her mother to be presented to Louise when she turns 25.

Savannah & Isla same as Louise.

Zara to receive hers now if she hasn't already. If Zara has a girl, then a few jewels given to the baby at birth then the same as Louise.

I wasn't thinking of distributing all at once. Start giving them away for Birthdays, Christmas, Easter, weddings, babies, even New Years.

 

[Josefine]

do you think the york princesses will take part in state functions? like state visits?

 

[Queen Camilla]

No, but they can still get the tiaras to wear for their weddings & to pass on to their children.

 

[wyevale]

Personally i a am absoutely against the disbursement of the Queen's Personal jewellry {other than personal bequests} to granddaughters and great-grandaughters. Inevitably these works of art will end up leaving the family, at auction [since the recipients will be subject to inheritance taxes.]

Much better to set up a Trust, or Foundation, whereby Windsor women may borrow items [either temporarily or for life], after which these items then return to the main body of the collection for the use of future generations.

This collection is unmatched in the world {i believe}, and to see it broken up would be an irreparable loss. to this country and its reigning family.

 

[USCtrojan]

I hope that you are wrong about the flowers for Astrid's daughters ! When Princess Astrid got married in the 1980’s, bridal tiaras were not that fashionable. Maybe that is why she decided to wear flowers. It shouldn’t automatically mean that Princess Astrid’s daughters and daughters-in-law have to follow her suite. Not when both grandmothers have tiaras to loan and bridal tiaras are so popular now.

Oh yes, that gigantic ruby (?) tiara of the Countess of Arco-Zinnenberg! What an amazing piece! Unfortunately there were no HG pictures of her. But I read that the tiara belonged to her husband’s family, which is quite well off. Wouldn’t it be wonderful, it Felix and Claire’s wedding had a white tie and tiara gala as well? I know, it is not likely, but one can dream. I’d love to see more pictures of the Countess of Arco-Zinneberg with that whopper tiara.

Ahhh... I love that tiara!

 

[Tilia C.]

The Countess of Arco -Z. wore the small Aosta tiara for her wedding.

Tilla C.perhaps for Princess Astrid's daughters ??

Of course I can’t know for sure, but I think that Princess Astrid’s daughters are more likely to wear the larger Savoy-Aosta tiara. After all it has become a kind of signature piece for their mother. Maybe the smaller tiara will turn up again at the weddings of AD Martin’s kids? But they are still very young, we will have to wait quite some time till we see their weddings.

do you think the york princesses will take part in state functions? like state visits?

Time will show, but I don’t believe they will. I guess that they will only wear tiaras at their weddings and at future coronations.

Personally i a am absoutely against the disbursement of the Queen's Personal jewellry {other than personal bequests} to granddaughters and great-grandaughters. Inevitably these works of art will end up leaving the family, at auction (since the recipients will be subject to inheritance taxes.

Much better to set up a Trust, or Foundation, whereby Windsor women may borrow items [either temporarily or for life], after which these items then return to the main body of the collection for the use of future generations.

This collection is unmatched in the world {i believe}, and to see it broken up would be an irreparable loss. to this country and its reigning family.

I fully agree with you! There is no need to burden the family members with inheritance taxes, when they won’t have many occasions for wearing tiaras anyway. A foundation can perfectly cater for jewellery when needed, and the historical jewels would be protected from being sold by future generations.

Anyways, the Queen’s grandchildren will someday inherit their mother’s jewels. I already hate the thought of Zara inheriting a tiara when she would probably prefer a horse and a couple of acres of meadows.

 

[Queen Camilla]

Here's my distribution of some of the Queen Elizabeth's Jewelry to the next generation.

Beatrice
1. The Grand Duchess Vladimir Tiara with pearls & Emerald or Cambridge Lover's Knot Emeralds would look so good in Beatrice's red hair.
2. Sapphire Tiara
3. The Boucheron Honeycomb Tiara (Loaned to Camilla for use during lifetime)
Emerald earrings & necklace

Eugenie
1, Cambridge Lover's Knot (if not given to Beatrice) or The Grand Duchess Vladimir Tiara
2. the Delhi Durbar Tiara (On loan to Camilla for use during lifetime)

Louise
Burmese Ruby Rose
The Five Aquamarine Tiara

Zara
Halo Scroll Tiara (on loan to Catherine for use during lifetime)
The Girls of Great Britain and Ireland Tiara
The Brazilian Aquamarine Tiara
Aquamarine parure

Savannah
The Russian Kokoshnik

Isla
The Russian Fringe Tiara

Only great-granddaughters born while the queen is alive will receive jewelry.

So as of yet, nothing to Harry and James future daughters. If William has a daughter she will not receive anything as she will have access to the crown/state jewels so only a 2nd daughter to William will jewelry from the Queen's private collection.

Most of the Queen's private collection has not been in the family for very long. It is wrong to give everything to the eldest son.

 

[Tilia C.]

Isn't that overly generous? It leaves only the State Diadem and the Oriental Circlet from the Crown jewellery to be shared between QEII, Camilla and Kate.

Of course, Charles and William can always buy back those tiaras which their relatives don't need, because they have no occasion to wear it. But it might be easier to let them inherit money and more usesul items in the first place.

I'm sure that all descendants will get their share of the wealth plus personal mementos. But imo it is fair to leave the representational stuff to those who inherit the burden of having to represent.
.

 

[wyevale]

It is wrong to give everything to the eldest son.

No doubt things are different in the USA, but in the United Kingdom 'leaving everything to the eldest son'. has ensured the survival of countless aristocratic {and non Aristocratic}, estates and collections over hundreds of years.Since the introduction of inheritance taxes they have often been put into 'trusts' to ensure their survival in the future.

In the parts of Europe where the 'Napoleonic law' operates' {stipulating the division of an estate equally amongst the deceaseds children},divided endlessly over the generations this is not the case, and their historic patrimony has been much the poorer for it {often flogged off to plutocrats, including those from your country}.
.

 

[Queen Camilla]

The Queen, Camilla and Kate can borrow from the new owners and wear the crown/state jewels.

 

[wyevale]

The Queen, Camilla and Kate can borrow from the new owners

And will they be permitted to borrow these items when they have been sold [to cover inheritance taxes] from sundry Russian oligarchs and Chinese businessmen ? The idea is grotesque !

 

[HRHHermione]

There's almost no chance most of these ladies will ever have a tiara occasion to attend at all. They'll wear tiaras at their own wedding and that's about it. It's totally senseless to break up the jewel collection like that.

Especially for Zara, Savannah and Isla. There are already three tiaras for the Princess Royal's family which will more than suffice.
.

 

[PrincessKaimi]

Interesting discussion. I'm on the "of course the jewels should be in trust" side.

 

[Queen Camilla]

All the jewelry received from foreign government (mideast etc.) can be made into more serviceable jewelry for William's future family, including some new tiaras. IMO, it is silly to wear these necklaces, etc. only once or twice and then keep them in the vault for decades.

I am not proposing QE's personal jewelry be disbursed all at once.

I also see nothing wrong if the new owners wants to redesign the tiara or sell some of the diamond, rubies or emeralds.

QM & QE both acquired some of these tiaras from other families.

IMO, I am afraid some people are objecting because they feel Zara & the York sisters are lesser royals. (A term I hate.)

They are the Queen's granddaughters and as such are entitled to receive jewelry from the grandmother.

 

[AdmirerUS]

I had always heard that the Queen's personal collection can pass to the next ruler sans tax. She can loan it to family members, but it has to come back to the royal collection to stay tax free. It is the reason she got so much of her mother's collection.

Charles, when he reigns, again can allow loans tax free - but once things are well and truly gifted or inherited, taxes are due. It can get very messy and is the reason so many great old pieces have been sold and broken up just to pay the taxes.

I like things as they are. It ensures the collection stays together for the family, while being used, and also allows for upkeep and security. It's not as if these ladies take out a tiara and mow the lawn.

 

[MichelleQ2]

I feel all of the queen's granddaughters and female family members should have access to the wealth of beautiful jewels. I'm sure their grandmother has left them personal gifts bracelets, necklaces, rings etc that they can wear in their lives.

As for tiaras - when there is a need they have an embarrassment of riches to choose from. Not to mention - Anne has a few tiaras (3 or 4 I think); 2 of which were worn by the brides at her children's weddings. and they will be passed down and available for her grandchildren.

Sophie has a few as well, so Louise and James will inherit those along with her other jewelry.

And even Sarah had a tiara in her own right which the girls will use, ultimately inherit, or they could choose one of granny's from her collection when the occasion calls for it.

The royal family has been very prudent at keeping the trove together. When it breaks away - part of it often ends up being sold.

 

[NGalitzine]

Why give anything to ladies who will have little to no need of such jewels, and whose mothers have jewels to pass on anyway, when it is more than likely that such an inheritance would just end up on the auction block? It does not seem logical at all.

 

[Grandma828]

Some people just are not logical.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Why give anything to ladies who will have little to no need of such jewels, and whose mothers have jewels to pass on anyway, when it is more than likely that such an inheritance would just end up on the auction block? It does not seem logical at all.

Exactly what I was just thinking. When is Savannah ever going to wear the Russian K?

 

[HRHHermione]

Exactly what I was just thinking. When is Savannah ever going to wear the Russian K?

And The Girls of Great Britain and Ireland, the tiara most associated with Elizabeth II to Zara, who would never wear it? Madness.

Thank goodness the Queen has a bit more respect for the historic nature of her jewelry collection

 

[carlfraley]

I had always heard that the Queen's personal collection can pass to the next ruler sans tax. She can loan it to family members, but it has to come back to the royal collection to stay tax free. It is the reason she got so much of her mother's collection.

Charles, when he reigns, again can allow loans tax free - but once things are well and truly gifted or inherited, taxes are due. It can get very messy and is the reason so many great old pieces have been sold and broken up just to pay the taxes.

I like things as they are. It ensures the collection stays together for the family, while being used, and also allows for upkeep and security. It's not as if these ladies take out a tiara and mow the lawn.

The BULK IF not MOST of HM 's private jewel collection was passed directly to her on the death of her grandmother Queen Mary in 1953. Most of it still hasn't been opened since qm's last inventory according to palace sources. QETQM. Was very limited in her jewels which is y she kind of permanently borrowed the oriental circlet and the Grenville inheritance helped but she was by no means Flush

 

[Dman]

It seems like the only people who will be wearing these kind of jewels are The Duchesses of Cornwall, Cambridge and Prince Harry's future wife. I highly doubt any of the major jewels will end up with Beatrice, & Eugenie or Zara.

 

[muriel]

The Queen, Camilla and Kate can borrow from the new owners and wear the crown/state jewels.

As has been pointed out, leaving historical and "major" tiara's to minor royals outside the "main line" will result in:

a) the senior royal ladies (in the case of the BRF, Camilla and Catherine) with relatively few tiaras;

b) the tiara's handed down will not get used very much as the inheriting ladies will probably not get to attend state dinners or many events where tiaras are used;

c) those tiara's would eventually get sold, as we saw with the jewels of Princess Margaret.

Apart from the issue of not having much use for the jewels, I am sure most royal grandchildren outside the main line would be happy with money and property instead.
.

 

[Queen Camilla]

I can see Beatrice bringing back the wearing of the tiara for formal dinner parties, even if she is not a working royal. I think she is the one that could bring back the elegance of the Edwardian Age.

Also the tiara not worn can be repurposed into earrings, necklaces, bracelets. How many previous jewels were made into tiaras and how many tiaras were repurposed into useable jewelry? This has been going on for centuries so why stop because some feel the Queen’s granddaughters are lesser royals.

Again Camilla & Catherine are keeping the tiara’s already loaned to them until their deaths.

Catherine can have new tiara’s made from jewelry received from foreign governments.
They can start by dismantling the oldest ones first. The senior royals can wear these jewels and if the monarchy is disbanded then William will not be stuck with a large tax & have to sell everything.

Giving a tiara as a 25th birthday gift to Beatrice IIRC should not result in a tax problem for Beatrice.

Are people objecting because they have transferred their dislike of Sarah to her daughters?

How many others are Diana fanatics who want everything to go to William & Harry.
If Diana had married Andrew instead of Charles & was the mother of Beatrice & Eugenie how many of the poster would be calling the York sisters ‘lesser royals’?

Sorry but IMO each granddaughter should inherit a tiara for her own use to do with it as she pleases.