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  #221  
Old 08-21-2013, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Tilia C. View Post

I hope that you are wrong about the flowers for Astrid's daughters ! When Princess Astrid got married in the 1980’s, bridal tiaras were not that fashionable. Maybe that is why she decided to wear flowers. It shouldn’t automatically mean that Princess Astrid’s daughters and daughters-in-law have to follow her suite. Not when both grandmothers have tiaras to loan and bridal tiaras are so popular now.

Oh yes, that gigantic ruby (?) tiara of the Countess of Arco-Zinnenberg! What an amazing piece! Unfortunately there were no HG pictures of her. But I read that the tiara belonged to her husband’s family, which is quite well off. Wouldn’t it be wonderful, it Felix and Claire’s wedding had a white tie and tiara gala as well? I know, it is not likely, but one can dream. I’d love to see more pictures of the Countess of Arco-Zinneberg with that whopper tiara.
Ahhh... I love that tiara!
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  #222  
Old 08-21-2013, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
The Countess of Arco -Z. wore the small Aosta tiara for her wedding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
Tilla C.perhaps for Princess Astrid's daughters ??
Of course I can’t know for sure, but I think that Princess Astrid’s daughters are more likely to wear the larger Savoy-Aosta tiara. After all it has become a kind of signature piece for their mother. Maybe the smaller tiara will turn up again at the weddings of AD Martin’s kids? But they are still very young, we will have to wait quite some time till we see their weddings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josefine View Post
do you think the york princesses will take part in state functions? like state visits?

Time will show, but I don’t believe they will. I guess that they will only wear tiaras at their weddings and at future coronations.

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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Personally i a am absoutely against the disbursement of the Queen's Personal jewellry {other than personal bequests} to granddaughters and great-grandaughters. Inevitably these works of art will end up leaving the family, at auction (since the recipients will be subject to inheritance taxes.
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post

Much better to set up a Trust, or Foundation, whereby Windsor women may borrow items [either temporarily or for life], after which these items then return to the main body of the collection for the use of future generations.

This collection is unmatched in the world {i believe}, and to see it broken up would be an irreparable loss. to this country and its reigning family.
I fully agree with you! There is no need to burden the family members with inheritance taxes, when they won’t have many occasions for wearing tiaras anyway. A foundation can perfectly cater for jewellery when needed, and the historical jewels would be protected from being sold by future generations.

Anyways, the Queen’s grandchildren will someday inherit their mother’s jewels. I already hate the thought of Zara inheriting a tiara when she would probably prefer a horse and a couple of acres of meadows.
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  #223  
Old 08-21-2013, 05:21 PM
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Here's my distribution of some of the Queen Elizabeth's Jewelry to the next generation.

Beatrice
1. The Grand Duchess Vladimir Tiara with pearls & Emerald or Cambridge Lover's Knot Emeralds would look so good in Beatrice's red hair.
2. Sapphire Tiara
3. The Boucheron Honeycomb Tiara (Loaned to Camilla for use during lifetime)
Emerald earrings & necklace

Eugenie
1, Cambridge Lover's Knot (if not given to Beatrice) or The Grand Duchess Vladimir Tiara
2. the Delhi Durbar Tiara (On loan to Camilla for use during lifetime)

Louise
Burmese Ruby Rose
The Five Aquamarine Tiara

Zara
Halo Scroll Tiara (on loan to Catherine for use during lifetime)
The Girls of Great Britain and Ireland Tiara
The Brazilian Aquamarine Tiara
Aquamarine parure

Savannah
The Russian Kokoshnik

Isla
The Russian Fringe Tiara

Only great-granddaughters born while the queen is alive will receive jewelry.

So as of yet, nothing to Harry and James future daughters. If William has a daughter she will not receive anything as she will have access to the crown/state jewels so only a 2nd daughter to William will jewelry from the Queen's private collection.

Most of the Queen's private collection has not been in the family for very long. It is wrong to give everything to the eldest son.
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  #224  
Old 08-21-2013, 05:41 PM
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Isn't that overly generous? It leaves only the State Diadem and the Oriental Circlet from the Crown jewellery to be shared between QEII, Camilla and Kate.

Of course, Charles and William can always buy back those tiaras which their relatives don't need, because they have no occasion to wear it. But it might be easier to let them inherit money and more usesul items in the first place.

I'm sure that all descendants will get their share of the wealth plus personal mementos. But imo it is fair to leave the representational stuff to those who inherit the burden of having to represent.
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  #225  
Old 08-21-2013, 05:53 PM
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It is wrong to give everything to the eldest son.
No doubt things are different in the USA, but in the United Kingdom 'leaving everything to the eldest son'. has ensured the survival of countless aristocratic {and non Aristocratic}, estates and collections over hundreds of years.Since the introduction of inheritance taxes they have often been put into 'trusts' to ensure their survival in the future.

In the parts of Europe where the 'Napoleonic law' operates' {stipulating the division of an estate equally amongst the deceaseds children},divided endlessly over the generations this is not the case, and their historic patrimony has been much the poorer for it {often flogged off to plutocrats, including those from your country}.
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  #226  
Old 08-21-2013, 05:53 PM
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The Queen, Camilla and Kate can borrow from the new owners and wear the crown/state jewels.
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  #227  
Old 08-21-2013, 06:11 PM
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The Queen, Camilla and Kate can borrow from the new owners
And will they be permitted to borrow these items when they have been sold [to cover inheritance taxes] from sundry Russian oligarchs and Chinese businessmen ? The idea is grotesque !
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  #228  
Old 08-21-2013, 06:39 PM
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There's almost no chance most of these ladies will ever have a tiara occasion to attend at all. They'll wear tiaras at their own wedding and that's about it. It's totally senseless to break up the jewel collection like that.

Especially for Zara, Savannah and Isla. There are already three tiaras for the Princess Royal's family which will more than suffice.
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  #229  
Old 08-21-2013, 06:43 PM
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Interesting discussion. I'm on the "of course the jewels should be in trust" side.
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  #230  
Old 08-21-2013, 06:54 PM
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All the jewelry received from foreign government (mideast etc.) can be made into more serviceable jewelry for William's future family, including some new tiaras. IMO, it is silly to wear these necklaces, etc. only once or twice and then keep them in the vault for decades.

I am not proposing QE's personal jewelry be disbursed all at once.

I also see nothing wrong if the new owners wants to redesign the tiara or sell some of the diamond, rubies or emeralds.

QM & QE both acquired some of these tiaras from other families.

IMO, I am afraid some people are objecting because they feel Zara & the York sisters are lesser royals. (A term I hate.)

They are the Queen's granddaughters and as such are entitled to receive jewelry from the grandmother.
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  #231  
Old 08-21-2013, 07:20 PM
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I had always heard that the Queen's personal collection can pass to the next ruler sans tax. She can loan it to family members, but it has to come back to the royal collection to stay tax free. It is the reason she got so much of her mother's collection.

Charles, when he reigns, again can allow loans tax free - but once things are well and truly gifted or inherited, taxes are due. It can get very messy and is the reason so many great old pieces have been sold and broken up just to pay the taxes.

I like things as they are. It ensures the collection stays together for the family, while being used, and also allows for upkeep and security. It's not as if these ladies take out a tiara and mow the lawn.
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  #232  
Old 08-21-2013, 07:34 PM
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I feel all of the queen's granddaughters and female family members should have access to the wealth of beautiful jewels. I'm sure their grandmother has left them personal gifts bracelets, necklaces, rings etc that they can wear in their lives.

As for tiaras - when there is a need they have an embarrassment of riches to choose from. Not to mention - Anne has a few tiaras (3 or 4 I think); 2 of which were worn by the brides at her children's weddings. and they will be passed down and available for her grandchildren.

Sophie has a few as well, so Louise and James will inherit those along with her other jewelry.

And even Sarah had a tiara in her own right which the girls will use, ultimately inherit, or they could choose one of granny's from her collection when the occasion calls for it.

The royal family has been very prudent at keeping the trove together. When it breaks away - part of it often ends up being sold.
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  #233  
Old 08-21-2013, 08:13 PM
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Why give anything to ladies who will have little to no need of such jewels, and whose mothers have jewels to pass on anyway, when it is more than likely that such an inheritance would just end up on the auction block? It does not seem logical at all.
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  #234  
Old 08-21-2013, 08:22 PM
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Some people just are not logical.
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  #235  
Old 08-22-2013, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Why give anything to ladies who will have little to no need of such jewels, and whose mothers have jewels to pass on anyway, when it is more than likely that such an inheritance would just end up on the auction block? It does not seem logical at all.
Exactly what I was just thinking. When is Savannah ever going to wear the Russian K?
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  #236  
Old 08-22-2013, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post

Exactly what I was just thinking. When is Savannah ever going to wear the Russian K?
And The Girls of Great Britain and Ireland, the tiara most associated with Elizabeth II to Zara, who would never wear it? Madness.

Thank goodness the Queen has a bit more respect for the historic nature of her jewelry collection :)
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  #237  
Old 08-22-2013, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by AdmirerUS View Post
I had always heard that the Queen's personal collection can pass to the next ruler sans tax. She can loan it to family members, but it has to come back to the royal collection to stay tax free. It is the reason she got so much of her mother's collection.

Charles, when he reigns, again can allow loans tax free - but once things are well and truly gifted or inherited, taxes are due. It can get very messy and is the reason so many great old pieces have been sold and broken up just to pay the taxes.

I like things as they are. It ensures the collection stays together for the family, while being used, and also allows for upkeep and security. It's not as if these ladies take out a tiara and mow the lawn.
The BULK IF not MOST of HM 's private jewel collection was passed directly to her on the death of her grandmother Queen Mary in 1953. Most of it still hasn't been opened since qm's last inventory according to palace sources. QETQM. Was very limited in her jewels which is y she kind of permanently borrowed the oriental circlet and the Grenville inheritance helped but she was by no means Flush
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  #238  
Old 08-22-2013, 09:10 AM
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It seems like the only people who will be wearing these kind of jewels are The Duchesses of Cornwall, Cambridge and Prince Harry's future wife. I highly doubt any of the major jewels will end up with Beatrice, & Eugenie or Zara.
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  #239  
Old 08-23-2013, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
The Queen, Camilla and Kate can borrow from the new owners and wear the crown/state jewels.
As has been pointed out, leaving historical and "major" tiara's to minor royals outside the "main line" will result in:

a) the senior royal ladies (in the case of the BRF, Camilla and Catherine) with relatively few tiaras;

b) the tiara's handed down will not get used very much as the inheriting ladies will probably not get to attend state dinners or many events where tiaras are used;

c) those tiara's would eventually get sold, as we saw with the jewels of Princess Margaret.

Apart from the issue of not having much use for the jewels, I am sure most royal grandchildren outside the main line would be happy with money and property instead.
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  #240  
Old 08-31-2013, 06:17 PM
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I can see Beatrice bringing back the wearing of the tiara for formal dinner parties, even if she is not a working royal. I think she is the one that could bring back the elegance of the Edwardian Age.

Also the tiara not worn can be repurposed into earrings, necklaces, bracelets. How many previous jewels were made into tiaras and how many tiaras were repurposed into useable jewelry? This has been going on for centuries so why stop because some feel the Queen’s granddaughters are lesser royals.

Again Camilla & Catherine are keeping the tiara’s already loaned to them until their deaths.

Catherine can have new tiara’s made from jewelry received from foreign governments.
They can start by dismantling the oldest ones first. The senior royals can wear these jewels and if the monarchy is disbanded then William will not be stuck with a large tax & have to sell everything.

Giving a tiara as a 25th birthday gift to Beatrice IIRC should not result in a tax problem for Beatrice.

Are people objecting because they have transferred their dislike of Sarah to her daughters?

How many others are Diana fanatics who want everything to go to William & Harry.
If Diana had married Andrew instead of Charles & was the mother of Beatrice & Eugenie how many of the poster would be calling the York sisters ‘lesser royals’?

Sorry but IMO each granddaughter should inherit a tiara for her own use to do with it as she pleases.
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