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  #101  
Old 11-21-2009, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RoyalistRiley View Post
I can't seen Camilla ever getting to use the Queen Mother's crown. It would be too controversial.
I still haven't seen a definitive response or explanation of the above.

In what way is the QM's crown too controversial? Is it too, like some of the gems in the crown jewels, laid claim by other nations? Has it been re-set with fake gems?

So . . . . . . why?
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  #102  
Old 11-21-2009, 09:26 PM
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I think that, in general, the only ones that will be upset would be the old fossils among us and the Dail Mail. Most people won't understand the significance.

Although I was wondering... if Camilla is to be the Princess Consort, why would she even wear a crown??

I know I may be unleashing the firestorm again (and for the record I think she will truly be the queen when Charles becomes king, regardless of whatever he chooses to call her, unless Parliament takes some other steps to prevent it).
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  #103  
Old 11-21-2009, 09:37 PM
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If the Princess Consort route is still kept, then she wont be crowned. I think she will either wear the State Diadem or the just the Circlet of either Marys, Elizabeth's, or the other numerous crowns. I do think she will be crowned Queen, I just wish they would release a statement backtracking the whole Princess Consort nonsense. Leaving it up in the air leaves a bad taste lingering.

The Koh-i-Noor will probably always state in the BRF and be continued to use. Simply because numerous countries lay claim to it and you dont really just give away a diamond like that.
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  #104  
Old 11-24-2009, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I still haven't seen a definitive response or explanation of the above.

In what way is the QM's crown too controversial? Is it too, like some of the gems in the crown jewels, laid claim by other nations? Has it been re-set with fake gems?

So . . . . . . why?
I have several things to say

1. Well, why did Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother and Queen Mary get new crowns? It would be in keeping with tradition.
2. If Camilla will be 'Princess Consort', why would she be crowned? The only other person with a similar designated title (Prince Albert) was not crowned.

I therefore agree with Madame Royale and Princejohnny25 - the base/circlet of the QM's or similar crown would be more appropriate.

3. I come from a long line of 'old fossils'.
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  #105  
Old 11-24-2009, 05:38 AM
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I have always assumed that Camilla would wear the Queen Mother's crown--it's still intact (no stones have been replaced with pastes) and it is something Charles remembers seeing his grandmother wear at his mother's coronation. The emotion of the piece makes it a logical choice. Of course, the State Diadem is also a fantastic choice as well.
Agree with Janet, my view is that Camilla will wear the QMs crown. The only thing that might prevent her from doing, IMO, is the issue with the Kohinoor diamond, and I don't think that the Palace would want to draw any attention to it. So the question is, if she is not crowned with the QMs crown, what else might be used?
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  #106  
Old 11-24-2009, 05:41 AM
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Whilst the above are points to ponder, none fits the definition of "Too Controversial", and let's not forget the appropriate smilie . . . . .

Somehow that would be neither necessary nor appropriate for any of the threee above points.
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  #107  
Old 11-24-2009, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by RoyalistRiley View Post
1. Well, why did Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother and Queen Mary get new crowns? It would be in keeping with tradition.
Queen Mary had a new crown made because Queen Alexandra was alive at the time; Queen Elizabeth had a new crown made because Queen Mary was alive at the time.
Queen Elizabeth's crown was the first to be made from platinum and is therefore probably lighter and more comfortable.
It also has the advantage of having its jewels still wholly intact.
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  #108  
Old 11-24-2009, 09:39 AM
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Queen Mary had a new crown made because Queen Alexandra was alive at the time; Queen Elizabeth had a new crown made because Queen Mary was alive at the time.
Queen Elizabeth's crown was the first to be made from platinum and is therefore probably lighter and more comfortable.
It also has the advantage of having its jewels still wholly intact.
So Warren, whats your view? What do you think Camilla will be crowned with?
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  #109  
Old 11-24-2009, 05:27 PM
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I think some people misunderstood what I was saying.

I think we can all agree that royals who are not crowned do not wear crowns. Right? For example, the Princess Royal, who has not been crowned, wears tiaras and not crowns. But her mother, the Queen, may wear either crowns or tiaras.

So if Camilla will not be crowned, why should we expect her to wear a crown and not one of the tiaras?
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  #110  
Old 12-02-2009, 12:28 PM
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You are right, if Camilla is not crowned, she will not be wearing a crown. But all things considered, how likely is it that Camilla is not crowned as Charles' queen?
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  #111  
Old 12-02-2009, 01:36 PM
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Well, at the moment, the Princess Consort is the way its heading. and until an announcement is made or Charles becomes King, we just wont know. But that doesnt stop us from speculating on the crown.

Being princess consort she could wear the circlets of Victoria, Alexandra, Mary, Elizabeth or the George IV State Diadem at the coronation. They would have to be refashioned and the gems put back in of course. As for crowns, if she is crowned Queen, the Queen Mum's would make the most sense but I'm quite partial to Queen Mary's.
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  #112  
Old 12-02-2009, 02:09 PM
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Are there any tiaras or Jewels that Camilla could only where as Queen?
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  #113  
Old 12-02-2009, 06:22 PM
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Yes. According to Leslie Field in The Queen's Jewels page 11: "(Queen Victoria's) will included a schedule of jewels that were to be considered as belonging to the Crown and to be worn by all future Queens in right of it. This list included those Hanovarian jewels which Queen Victoria had kept after the resolution of the court case in 1858, the King George IV State Diadem, which now became part of the Crown regalia, and a number of pieces of jewelry that she had been given by Prince Albert or that they had designed together from stones already in the royal collection. The rest of her jewellery was divided among her children and grandchildren."

It is clear that if Camilla is not Queen, she has no right to those pieces (not that she'll be deprived). So the State Diadem is explicitly removed from consideration.
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  #114  
Old 12-02-2009, 10:17 PM
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Thats not entirely true scooter. Camilla WILL become Queen, however if the current route is maintained, she will simply be called HRH The Princess Consort. Just as she is the Princess of Wales, but is called the Duchess of Cornwall. So she has every right to wear these pieces.
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  #115  
Old 12-02-2009, 10:46 PM
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Actually, when they married the press release said that it was intended that the Duchess of Cornwall would be known as the The Princess Consort....which means we're looking at the whole she is the Princess of Wales but chooses to be known as the Duchess of Cornwall situation out of deference to the memory of her step-children's mother--so, nothing is off limits to her. And, she'll be gorgeous in the State Diadem. So, maybe not crown, but the diadem for the coronation, and for the Parliament openings. However, I personally am hoping for HM Queen Camilla.
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  #116  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:38 AM
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I disagree. I think that her choices will be limited if she's not crowned or called Queen. And I disagree totally with the idea of a Princess Consort. But I guess we'll see if the time comes...

Debate on about tiaras, please!
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  #117  
Old 12-03-2009, 10:44 AM
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Yes thank you Iowabelle!

This constant Camilla hate is so OLD AND TIRED.

From what I understand, there is nothing i.e. documents, precedents except poor Queen Caroline that even calls for a Princess Consort. So why not use the jewels of previous Queen Consorts.

It woudl be interesting to see the Scroll Tiara although Camilla's hair calls for big tiaras.
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  #118  
Old 12-03-2009, 11:09 AM
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I am on the hunt to figure out where the sunray fringe tiara worn by Queen Victoria in this Winterhalter portrait:
http://www.wga.hu/art/w/winterhx/1may1851.jpg the fringes are entirely too large to be the 1919 Queen Mary fringe worn by HM on her wedding day. But, if it is down in the vault, well, bring it up and put it on Camilla. I want to see it.

I do like the scroll--the diamonds are large than you would expect, but I think that it is a smaller, less significant piece. It may be a piece we see on the York princesses, or a future wife of Princes William or Harry. I also wouldn't mind seeing Sophie receive another tiara--she has the aquamarine one, the other one which resembles the scroll, and that thing she wore for her wedding. I want to see the sapphire bandeau tiara come out and get worn by Camilla--and the Delhi Durbar could make another appearance and I would not be upset.
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  #119  
Old 12-03-2009, 01:21 PM
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I'm new here, so haven't posted before, but I believe I read somewhere that Royal Wills were not sealed until George V. I have forgotten the reason now, but if I am wrong, please tell me
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  #120  
Old 12-03-2009, 01:25 PM
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I'm new here, so haven't posted before, but I believe I read somewhere that Royal Wills were not sealed until George V. I have forgotten the reason now, but if I am wrong, please tell me
You know, wanderingana--I believe I must now eat crow! They weren't sealed until George V because of an incident with Queen Mary's brother, Francis, the Cambridge emeralds, and mistress.
I'm off to find Vicky's will--
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