Princess Eugenie: Wedding Tiara and Jewelry Suggestions and Musings

[Curryong]

The known history of any historic piece of jewellery, art etc, including previous owners from the time the article concerned was constructed.

 

[Queen Claude]

I don't know if Queen Mary was more generous or nontraditional than her predecessors, rather that with the allowing of "unequal" marriages, which is overall a good thing, you also have jewels leaving royal families. In previous generations new or existing jewels were gifted to princesses upon marriage but if she married another royal then the jewel ended up in another royal house, for example the Prussian Diamond Tiara making its way to Spain or the Ruby Parure making its way to Denmark.

What is provenance?

Most simply it means history of ownership. In the context of royal jewels it means jewels that were acquired and used by royals.

 

[Leopoldine]

it is also a term that implies added value if there is documentation of illustrious history.

 

[muriel]

I'm saying if we are going to assume without any reason that the tiara could've been gifted to her after BP said it was loaned to her, then we can believe the same for every tiara. Neither of which I have seen any reason that would indicate is true.

Exactly my point. It is unclear if any of the 3 tiaras Sophie has been seen in belong either to her or the Queen, so there is no point speculating.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

The family tiara

 

[jacqui24]

Exactly my point. It is unclear if any of the 3 tiaras Sophie has been seen in belong either to her or the Queen, so there is no point speculating.

If BP said the Five Aquamarine is on loan from the Queen, it's not speculation. It's only speculation that she could've somehow gifted it to Sophie since then.

As for the York tiara. That video reminded me what a beauty it is. I'm glad the Queen bought Fergie the tiara rather than cobble something else together. BTW, do we know why the Queen never loaned Fergie a tiara or made arrangements for her beforehand, and had to buy this one after the wedding since she already borrowed from Gerrard?

 

[Mirabel]

If BP said the Five Aquamarine is on loan from the Queen, it's not speculation. It's only speculation that she could've somehow gifted it to Sophie since then.

As for the York tiara. That video reminded me what a beauty it is. I'm glad the Queen bought Fergie the tiara rather than cobble something else together. BTW, do we know why the Queen never loaned Fergie a tiara or made arrangements for her beforehand, and had to buy this one after the wedding since she already borrowed from Gerrard?

I read that the Queen was dismayed that Fergie borrowed a tiara from Garrard, and so was more or less obliged to purchase it for her.

 

[jacqui24]

I read that the Queen was dismayed that Fergie borrowed a tiara from Garrard, and so was more or less obliged to purchase it for her.

Yea, but why didn't the Queen offer her one to borrow from the vault in the first place?

 

[Queen Claude]

I don't know for sure but my guess is either:
A. that it did not occur to the Queen and her people to let Sarah borrow a tiara from the BRF stash since most married ins either wore tiaras from their families or did not wear tiaras.

B. Sarah was offered one or more options from the BRF stash but preferred the Garrard's tiara and did not think it was a big deal to wear a tiara that was borrowed from a jeweler.

 

[Leopoldine]

I suspect that early on Sarah inquired about tiaras at Garrard's before HM had a chance to … look in to it herself. When HM heard that Sarah liked the now-called York Tiara, she purchased it for her new DIL.

 

[muriel]

Yea, but why didn't the Queen offer her one to borrow from the vault in the first place?

I suspect that early on Sarah inquired about tiaras at Garrard's before HM had a chance to … look in to it herself. When HM heard that Sarah liked the now-called York Tiara, she purchased it for her new DIL.

I agree with Leopoldine, it is quite possible that Sarah had arranged to borrow the tiara from Garrards before HM had a chance to sit down and talk options from the royal vault with Sarah.

 

[muriel]

As for the York tiara. That video reminded me what a beauty it is. I'm glad the Queen bought Fergie the tiara rather than cobble something else together. BTW, do we know why the Queen never loaned Fergie a tiara or made arrangements for her beforehand, and had to buy this one after the wedding since she already borrowed from Gerrard?

I also think that the Queen was probably not keen to gift a tiara with royal provenance to the wives of her younger sons or her daughter, as it is quite likely that in another generation, the tiaras would end up being sold.

What Sophie received is rumoured (but never confirmed) to have been put together from elements of a circlet Queen Victoria used. Ownership of that tiara, as we have previously discussed, is also not clear.

Anne herself did not receive any tiaras with serious BRF provenance. Her Greek tiara was from Prince Philips's family (so no BRF provenance, never even worn by HM in public), her aquamarine one was bought by the Queen Mother in the 1930s but never used much, and the Festoon was a present to Anne from a shipping company in the 1970s.

 

[Stefan]

I think we also have to rember that at the time of the York Wedding the Queen Mum was still alive and a number tiaras remainded with here until her death. Therfore there where perhaps not so much avalile to loan to Sarah.

 

[Mirabel]

I'm inclined to think it simply didn't occur to the Queen that Fergie might not have one.
After all, Diana wore her family's tiara, so up to that point (Andrew's wedding) the Queen didn't need to lend one.

After that, she did realize that and provided tiaras for Sophie, Kate, and Meghan.

 

[jacqui24]

I also think that the Queen was probably not keen to gift a tiara with royal provenance to the wives of her younger sons or her daughter, as it is quite likely that in another generation, the tiaras would end up being sold.

What Sophie received is rumoured (but never confirmed) to have been put together from elements of a circlet Queen Victoria used. Ownership of that tiara, as we have previously discussed, is also not clear.

Anne herself did not receive any tiaras with serious BRF provenance. Her Greek tiara was from Prince Philips's family (so no BRF provenance, never even worn by HM in public), her aquamarine one was bought by the Queen Mother in the 1930s but never used much, and the Festoon was a present to Anne from a shipping company in the 1970s.

Of course I understand about not gifting tiaras with BRF history. I don’t think she’s done that at all in her reign. The last gifting happened with Queen Mum to Princess Margaret with the Persian Turqoise tiara (although it has little history) and the Teck Circlet. Even with Diana and Cambridge Lover’s Knot. It was a loan. That was already established practice when Fergie came on the scene. I’m just shocked she didn’t think to lend her one to begin with.

 

[muriel]

Of course I understand about not gifting tiaras with BRF history. I don’t think she’s done that at all in her reign. The last gifting happened with Queen Mum to Princess Margaret with the Persian Turqoise tiara (although it has little history) and the Teck Circlet. Even with Diana and Cambridge Lover’s Knot. It was a loan. That was already established practice when Fergie came on the scene. I’m just shocked she didn’t think to lend her one to begin with.

As discussed, by the sounds of it, Sarah got to Garrards before the Queen made it downstairs to the vault.

 

[Queen Claude]

My imagination has come up with that tiara that is now known as the York Tiara came about because the Queen sweetly offered to Sarah the tiara that is now known as the Wessex Tiara.


ETA:

Actually while not a big fan, I am actually one of the seemingly few people who does not see the Wessex Tiara as an awful piece of jewelry.

 

[ladongas]

Here’s a curveball in The York tiara story: were Andrew to marry or remarry in the next reign, his wife would need a tiara.

 

[Queen Claude]

Yeah, but the York Tiara belongs to Sarah, so other arrangements would need to be made.

 

[ladongas]

Yes, but if Andrew remarries Sarah, their daughters will need tiaras.

 

[Pranter]

The York girls don't 'need' tiaras. They might wear a tiara 2 or 3 times in their whole life since they are not working royals. The few times they might need one one can wear the York and the other can borrow from the selection in the BRF vaults or both of them could borrow from the vaults.




LaRae

 

[RoyalHighness 2002]

The York girls don't 'need' tiaras. They might wear a tiara 2 or 3 times in their whole life since they are not working royals. The few times they might need one one can wear the York and the other can borrow from the selection in the BRF vaults or both of them could borrow from the vaults.




LaRae

Your status in the family doesn't decide whether you do go or don't got to banquets. Prince and Princess Michael of Kent are both not working royals and they've been attending most of the state banquets for almost forty years. B and E did attend the Commonwealth dinner in April so maybe they will start soon.

 

[Pranter]

Your status in the family doesn't decide whether you do go or don't got to banquets. Prince and Princess Michael of Kent are both not working royals and they've been attending most of the state banquets for almost forty years. B and E did attend the Commonwealth dinner in April so maybe they will start soon.

The York girls have been to 1 State Dinner..and no tiaras. Princess Michael is a different situation and era. That pattern has not been continued with the York girls. Even if they do go to one State Dinner a year...that's 1 tiara event per year. Hardly a need to have a tiara.



LaRae

 

[IloveCP]

My final guess is the York tiara, which is also my original guess.

 

[Tilia C.]

The poll has now been closed. Thanks to all the members who have voted.

 

[Mbruno]

The York girls don't 'need' tiaras. They might wear a tiara 2 or 3 times in their whole life since they are not working royals. The few times they might need one one can wear the York and the other can borrow from the selection in the BRF vaults or both of them could borrow from the vaults.




LaRae

I disagree. When William is King, I expect Beatrice and Eugenie to attend state dinners replacing the former generation of royals who attend today. That means at least one or two tiara events per year.

 

[Tilia C.]

This thread is now closed. Princess Eugenie's wedding tiara can be discussed in this thread: http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f113/princess-eugenies-wedding-tiara-45621.html#post2157403

The outcome of the poll is that not a single person voted for
Other tiara with a royal connection, please specify.