Princess Eugenie of York's Wedding Tiara


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
I don't think Kate or Camilla are locked into any tiara due to their husband's views on the women who wore the tiaras.


LaRae
 
Would lifetime loans be an option? I like the idea of any HRH/princess having her own tiara, however, preferably without the risk of it being sold at some point. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point (when the current cousins no longer attend) both Eugenie and Beatrice will be asked to join the family for banquets - just like prince and princess Michael of Kent are somewhat 'semi-active' royals; where a tiara would be expected of a royal princess.

So, for born princesses that could be managed by a lifetime loan and for princesses by marriage it would be available to (only) them as long as they are married (or unmarried widow).
I agree, I suspect Eugenie, who is 100% based in the UK, will be called upon to attend State dinners in the future. She has lovely manners and is the granddaughter of the Queen, who better to attend when the current generation of the Queen’s cousins are no longer able to do so? Thus, she’ll need access to a tiara.
 
Yes, and her heir will inherit them tax-free. The other senior royals own nothing of importance because of inheritance issues.

Right-they are owned by The Queen, not Elizabeth and will be inherited by The King, not Charles.
 
Right-they are owned by The Queen, not Elizabeth and will be inherited by The King, not Charles.

Actually, no. Quite a lot of the jewels, including the Greville Kokoshnik tiara, are privately owned by Elizabeth Windsor (to the extent you can separate her from HM The Queen!) and are not part of the Royal Collection. They could, in if the Queen so chooses, be left to anybody. Having said that, it is likely that they will be left to Charles so that:

1) the collection of jewels and private wealth of the monarch is not depleted
2) inheritance tax is not payable on the estate.
 
One of the examples imo where a tiara doesn't look that striking in a picture of just the object (let alone a black and white picture), but is completely lifted when worn by the right lady
just have to repost this pic, it looks so great!

I wonder who picks the tiara in such a case; i have a mental image of HM and Eugenie (and a few months earlier Meghan) going through all the jewelry and trying stuff on, but that is probably not how it happens :lol:

In my head it's "Say yes to the dress" but with tiaras :lol:
 
I don't think Kate or Camilla are locked into any tiara due to their husband's views on the women who wore the tiaras.


LaRae

Agreed. Both ladies probably have access to more jewellery if they so required.

Eugenie *might* wear a tiara once a year if that. No reason really to lifetime loan or give it to her. Her children won't be titled at this point...they will have very little need for it and may end up having to sell it off to pay for taxes etc.

Must better to leave it in the BRF vaults for her (or others) to use as needed.


LaRae

Agreed (What is wrong, this is happening far too often!), no need for any lifetime loans of tiaras for Eugenie, IMO. As and when she needs one,the Queen or Camilla or Catherine (as Queen consort) can lend her one.
 
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Prince Charles does not even own his suits, or the cars he regularly drives in. .


That is the first I hear how Charles does not own Highgrove, his cars (apart from leasing them probably) and his suits.Charles is the Duke of Cornwall, he owns the Duchy as long as he is not king and can of course use the income (and even the complete capital) how he sees fit. So if he buys clothes off the income of the Duchy, they are of course his private possessions - it's not like he has to give them all to William once he becomes king as part of William's inheritance. He has bought privately a lot of jewels to give to Camilla and Camilla will be able to give them to her own children in her will, if she so chose. Same with the Duchy of Lancaster and the queen.



It's different with the Crown Estate because there was that exchange of George III. with parliament for a civil list to pay for the monarchy's expenses. That doesn't mean that the Crown Estate (who owns eg Kensington and Buckingham Palaces) belongs to the public since then, only that it's under parliamental control and parliament decides who gets what of the profits.



In case the public decides that they want to abolish the monarchy, the Crown Estate will revert back into the possession of the then dethroned monarch! And the public would have to pay for a new head of state plus staff plus residences plus security completely out of taxes. While at the moment the monarchy pays for itself plus 85 % of the income of the Crown Estate. So really a bad exchange in case of abolishment of the monarchy.
 
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The Dukes of Lancaster and Cornwall cannot use the capital of the Duchies in the way that other people are able to use their capital. They have to pass that on intact or go through a very convoluted process to justify spending the inheritance of their heirs.

They do not 'own' in a conventional sense the properties associated with the duchies. As such Charles doesn't own Highgrove - he leases it from the Duchy of Cornwall with the income from the Duchy as he used Duchy capital to buy it. When he becomes King Highgrove will pass to William and Charles will have to negotiate with William if he wants to continue to lease it.

What they buy with the income of the Duchies is their personal property but if they get permission to buy something with the capital it remains the property of the Duchy and they don't own it.
 
They do not 'own' in a conventional sense the properties associated with the duchies. As such Charles doesn't own Highgrove - he leases it from the Duchy of Cornwall with the income from the Duchy as he used Duchy capital to buy it. When he becomes King Highgrove will pass to William and Charles will have to negotiate with William if he wants to continue to lease it.

Another important thing to add to this discussion is that when Charles wanted to purchase and live at Highgrove, he had to appeal to the Duchy of Cornwall's board for approval for the purchase to go ahead. The Duchy of Cornwall has its own board of directors and its them that make the decisions. Not Charles. This will also go in front of the board should Charles wish to continue leasing it once it passes to William as the new Duke of Cornwall.

Eugenie probably knows that for the rest of her lifetime, should she ever need a tiara for an occasion, that its there in the vault for her to wear as the wedding did kind of put an Eugenie stamp on it. If I was Eugenie, that's exactly how I'd want it done. I know where the tiara is and I know its safe and sound and its being cared for. Owning things that are worth a lot of money also raid the pockets covering insurance on the thing. This tiara is staying where it it best cared for. ?
 
To be honest - I don't understand the discussion about wether she should or should not have gotten the tiara as a gift because
a) she's not likely to have a lot of occasions to wear it or
b) ladies of the main line should wear it.
Fact is: the tiara obviously HASN'T been worn by any other member of the royal family in a long time.
Does it really matter, where it's "stored"? If any other female royal wanted to wear it, they could have done it, for sure. But to me it seems as if they didn't want, so where is the problem?
If someone starts to wear it now, then imo the only reason it because it looked perfect on Eugenie - and someone wants to get the same applaus.
I think the Emerald Kokoshnik is a wonderful addition to the available jewellery. Someone earlier mentioned that Charles and William were responsible for the fact that Camilla uses the Diamond Bucheron and Cambridge Lovers Knot respectively. I do not believe so. Camilla has also used the Delhi Durbar and regularly uses her own family tiara. I believe that the fact we have only seen the Delhi Durbar once is because it is a lot heavier to wear than the Bucheron and her own one.

Catherine too has used both the Papyrus and the Cambridge Lovers Knot and I believe we will see both she, Meghan, Sophie and even Camilla in other tiaras. Both the Halo and not the Greville Diamond Bandeau are on display and when we see HM private jewels which are those used by Camilla, Catherine and Meghan, we get to see history.

Not everything in the legendary vaults has a long history but most are interesting just as the Greville Bequest is interesting and it seems the with the emergence of the younger royals HM has changed her reviewed her previous stance on loaning those jewels.

Once a tiara was given to an in-law that was it, the only one they had as was their wedding tiara just as Sophie and Sarah did. Then Sophie started to wear more, Camilla had two a whisper of a third, Catherine's wedding saw the reemergence of the Halo Scroll tiara and Meghan's Queen Mary's Diamond Bandeau.

Now with the wedding of Eugenie, we see the emergence of the Greville Bucheron Emerald Kokoshnik Bandeau, hidden away with much of the rest of the Greville bequest because the timing of the bequest was sensitive with the privations after the war and there was plenty of tiaras in use for the women of the BRF.
 
Yes, and her heir will inherit them tax-free. The other senior royals own nothing of importance because of inheritance issues.


The Kents, the Gloucesters and the Lascelles inherited quite a lot of jewelry from Queen Mary.
 
I wonder who picks the tiara in such a case; i have a mental image of HM and Eugenie (and a few months earlier Meghan) going through all the jewelry and trying stuff on, but that is probably not how it happens :lol:

In my head it's "Say yes to the dress" but with tiaras :lol:



What do you suppose comes first, the choice of tiara or the choice of dress design?

Eugenie says she knew her designer immediately, and yet her dress and her bridal party's sashes almost seemed built around that emerald tiara.
 
What do you suppose comes first, the choice of tiara or the choice of dress design?

Eugenie says she knew her designer immediately, and yet her dress and her bridal party's sashes almost seemed built around that emerald tiara.

In my imagination I see Eugenie joining her grandmother for tea (which we know she does) and telling her about her planned wedding dress and colors/theme and Granny saying "I have just the thing!"
 
I think that the tiara was chosen to compliment what Eugenie already had planned. She knew what she wanted in a wedding dress and the sashes for the bridal party was complimentary to the piece of artwork that Eugenie and Jack had on their Order of Service. Emeralds just seemed perfect to fit in with all of this and yeps, I can hear the Queen saying "I've got just the thing!" :D
 
I can also imagine that the Queen's granddaughters have known the content of granny's vault all their lives. They are family after all, and little kids love to look at all these sparkly things. Who knows, but maybe Eugenie had started adoring the tiara while she still was a little kid, begging great-granny to let her have a look at it. And don't grannies and great-grannies like to spoil the little ones from time to time, and let them (carefully) try on their sparkly things? Also families talk about all kinds of things over a cup of tea or when having family dinners. With the recent weddings of her cousins, family conversations might have touched on weddings tiaras from time to time. I imagine that the girls have chatted about which ones they'd prefer. Somehow I don't think that Eugenie had to wait till her engagement to learn about this particular tiara.
 
I can also imagine that the Queen's granddaughters have known the content of granny's vault all their lives. They are family after all, and little kids love to look at all these sparkly things. Who knows, but maybe Eugenie had started adoring the tiara while she still was a little kid, begging great-granny to let her have a look at it. And don't grannies and great-grannies like to spoil the little ones from time to time, and let them (carefully) try on their sparkly things? Also families talk about all kinds of things over a cup of tea or when having family dinners. With the recent weddings of her cousins, family conversations might have touched on weddings tiaras from time to time. I imagine that the girls have chatted about which ones they'd prefer. Somehow I don't think that Eugenie had to wait till her engagement to learn about this particular tiara.

I doubt Eugenie had seen her wedding tiara as a child. I don’t think the Queen has ever worn it in public and it is not like valuable items such as expensive tiaras are kept in a closet at Buckingham Palace or Windsor Castle where the Queen regularly shows them to the girls. Real life is not like The Princess Diaries.
 
On a side note with so many incredible pieces of jewellery available in the vaults you have to wonder why they had to purchase the "York Tiara" back in 1986 ...
 
That is the first I hear how Charles does not own Highgrove, his cars (apart from leasing them probably) and his suits.Charles is the Duke of Cornwall, he owns the Duchy as long as he is not king and can of course use the income (and even the complete capital) how he sees fit. So if he buys clothes off the income of the Duchy, they are of course his private possessions - it's not like he has to give them all to William once he becomes king as part of William's inheritance. He has bought privately a lot of jewels to give to Camilla and Camilla will be able to give them to her own children in her will, if she so chose. Same with the Duchy of Lancaster and the queen.

Before Charles married Diana, he petitioned the Duchy of Cornwall to buy Highgrove for his use. It was purchased for him. It is still a Duchy property. In an accounting of his expenses and cost a few years back, it was revealed that the only car he owns is that 1969 Aston Martin he got for his birthday from HM and the DoE. Like HM, clothing that he wears on official business is not paid for privately. In Charles's case, either The Prince's Trust or The Duchy of Cornwall pay. His homes are furnished with things that belong to The Crown. As to be expected.

I'm not voicing a negative opinion about this, just posting what I know to be true.
 
What do you suppose comes first, the choice of tiara or the choice of dress design?

Eugenie says she knew her designer immediately, and yet her dress and her bridal party's sashes almost seemed built around that emerald tiara.

I think the wedding dress design came first, followed by a session with Angela Kelly for the tiara, followed by HM's stamp of approval. Jack's earring gift choice, and the green theme came later, most probably Sarah's input on that sash theme. The sashes did not come across as autumnal.

The floral decoration was wonderfully robust and seasonal, and seems independent of the green theme.
 
The watercolor painting on the front of the wedding program is the same as the sashes.
 
Weren't the sashes from a painting that meant a lot to the couple? That is what I thought I read.

I was surprised to see such a significant tiara come out the vaults for the first time in sooo long, and it certainly does make one wonder why the RF paid for the York tiara if they had the Emerald one and Meghan's wedding tiara in the vaults. Though at the time of Sarah and Andrew's wedding I assume the Greville tiara at least was still owned by the Queen Mother's so maybe that was why it wasn't available to use. I have started to wonder if the Queen has earmarked certain tiaras along the way for her female descendants and that is why we haven't seen them for so long, the Queen already knows who they are intended for. Who knows!
 
Agreed. Both ladies probably have access to more jewellery if they so required.
Jewelry yes, re tiaras, my observation is that BRF women are given access to only one tiara from the vault at a time. While they are allowed to switch / upgrade, they cannot wear vault tiaras interchangeably. I have brought this up before and been disagreed with but no one has yet to provide an example of either Sophie, Camilla or Kate wearing a vault tiara, then wearing another tiara from the vault and then wearing the previous tiara after the switch.


I don't think Kate or Camilla are locked into any tiara due to their husband's views on the women who wore the tiaras.


LaRae

The reason I say locked in is that now that Camilla wears the Greville Boucheron Tiara, which was a favorite of Charles' beloved grandmother, and Kate now wears the Lover's Knot Tiara which was Diana's tiara from the vaults. IMO they are not going to switch, not because the Queen won't allow it, rather because of their husbands (Charles and William) great affection for the previous wearers (Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother and Diana, Princess of Wales respectively).

So to bring this back to Eugenie's wedding tiara, while lovely, that tiara is not going to be used by Camilla, Catherine or anyone else during this current monarch's reign because this monarch does not allow royal women to switch back and forth between tiaras and I doubt if any of the "mainline" will want their assigned tiara to be one with such a strong colored stone.
 
Before Charles married Diana, he petitioned the Duchy of Cornwall to buy Highgrove for his use. It was purchased for him. It is still a Duchy property. In an accounting of his expenses and cost a few years back, it was revealed that the only car he owns is that 1969 Aston Martin he got for his birthday from HM and the DoE. Like HM, clothing that he wears on official business is not paid for privately. In Charles's case, either The Prince's Trust or The Duchy of Cornwall pay. His homes are furnished with things that belong to The Crown. As to be expected.

I'm not voicing a negative opinion about this, just posting what I know to be true.

Off topic but do you mean The Prince's Trust, the Prince of Wales' charity pays for his clothes?
 
The watercolor painting on the front of the wedding program is the same as the sashes.

Yes both are taken from a water color of an American artist the couple both like.

https://ca.hellomagazine.com/royalty/02018101247864/princess-eugenie-bridal-party-outfits-gift-bags
Before Charles married Diana, he petitioned the Duchy of Cornwall to buy Highgrove for his use. It was purchased for him. It is still a Duchy property. In an accounting of his expenses and cost a few years back, it was revealed that the only car he owns is that 1969 Aston Martin he got for his birthday from HM and the DoE. Like HM, clothing that he wears on official business is not paid for privately. In Charles's case, either The Prince's Trust or The Duchy of Cornwall pay. His homes are furnished with things that belong to The Crown. As to be expected.

I'm not voicing a negative opinion about this, just posting what I know to be true.


The princes trust has nothing to do with his clothes. It is a charity and raises money for his causes.

Cornwall is his source of income. It pays for all his expenses, like the income from Lancaster pays for the queen.
 
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Jewelry yes, re tiaras, my observation is that BRF women are given access to only one tiara from the vault at a time. While they are allowed to switch / upgrade, they cannot wear vault tiaras interchangeably. I have brought this up before and been disagreed with but no one has yet to provide an example of either Sophie, Camilla or Kate wearing a vault tiara, then wearing another tiara from the vault and then wearing the previous tiara after the switch.




The reason I say locked in is that now that Camilla wears the Greville Boucheron Tiara, which was a favorite of Charles' beloved grandmother, and Kate now wears the Lover's Knot Tiara which was Diana's tiara from the vaults. IMO they are not going to switch, not because the Queen won't allow it, rather because of their husbands (Charles and William) great affection for the previous wearers (Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother and Diana, Princess of Wales respectively).

So to bring this back to Eugenie's wedding tiara, while lovely, that tiara is not going to be used by Camilla, Catherine or anyone else during this current monarch's reign because this monarch does not allow royal women to switch back and forth between tiaras and I doubt if any of the "mainline" will want their assigned tiara to be one with such a strong colored stone.


Serena Stanhope wore the Lotus tiara for her wedding, then a few years later it showed up on Catherine.

I don't think there are hard and fast rules with loaned tiaras. I think much of it has to do with comfort. I also think that Camilla and Kate have perhaps more leeway than others in choosing one of HM's tiaras for an event.

Yes both are taken from a water color of an American artist the couple both like.

https://ca.hellomagazine.com/royalty/02018101247864/princess-eugenie-bridal-party-outfits-gift-bags



The princes trust has nothing to do with his clothes. It is a charity and raises money for his causes.

Cornwall is his source of income. It pays for all his expenses, like the income from Lancaster pays for the queen.


The Prince's Trust hosts events that, according to the Bedell Smith book, only turn over 1/3 of the money raised at events to charitable causes. Part of what the Trust pays for is Charles's expenses in attending to Trust matters and events and staffing involved.


The Duchy pays for his suits.
 
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:previous: And he owns the Duchy!
 
Serena Stanhope wore the Lotus tiara for her wedding, then a few years later it showed up on Catherine.

I don't think there are hard and fast rules with loaned tiaras. I think much of it has to do with comfort. I also think that Camilla and Kate have perhaps more leeway than others in choosing one of HM's tiaras for an event.

It belonged (or a lifetime loan) to P Margaret and was a loan from her mother in law rather than the queen in Serena's wedding I believe.

Anyway while I am not sure is there a rule that the ladies only can access to a tiara at a time, I kinda believe it's a “lifetime loan” to Eugenie, no one besides Eugenie can access to this tiara when Eugenie is alive even though she doesn't have so many chances to wear a tiara.

Somehow I don't think that Eugenie had to wait till her engagement to learn about this particular tiara.

I can imagine that the queen has been secretly seriously thinking which tiara suit which granddaughter the best since they were young and introduce to them when they are old enough.:lol:
 
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