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  #21  
Old 01-26-2017, 12:59 PM
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True, but have there been any Greek born Greeks in the GRF? Any at all past or present? All I can find are Danes and Germans and most recently the Anglo-American Marie-Chantal.
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  #22  
Old 01-26-2017, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I didn't know that about the former king and queen, thanks for the heads up ladejesus.

I know that Nikolaos and Tatiana have chosen to live and work in Greece. I admire them a great deal for that..

Unfortunately the children of Pavlos and MC seem to be inheriting the shallow, nouveau rich all-about-the-bucks-and-glitter values of their parents. I am thinking in particular about their eldest child, the so-called "It Girl" Maria Olympia.
You and ladejesus have said it all, seeing how they bring up their children and conduct themselves of late makes my stomach turn
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  #23  
Old 01-26-2017, 02:19 PM
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Considering how Greece treated the Greek RF over the years, I am surprised that any of them want to return. They have stolen the families properties and possessions, bullied them around and thrown them away several times.

The crown prince was forced to live outside of the country until the 90-ties. His father was even stripped of his Greek citizenship in 1994. The prince was forced to create a future for himself elsewhere. He now has his own carreer, as does his American wife. Why on earth would he move back at this point?

I do not disagree with you and Moonmaiden on the other points. But they are private citizens and free to live the way they want to.
Right you are. Crown Prince Pavlos knows that chances of the restoration are absolutely nil. While Crown Prince Pavlos is consistently diplomatic about Greek issues, he has no wish to foist himself on the country ... in my opinion.

I do wonder though what prompted Crown Prince Pavlos to move the family to the US. There has to be a serious reason to do so.
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  #24  
Old 01-26-2017, 02:32 PM
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I'm not surprised Pavlos and Marie Chantal have decided to move to NY. Olympia is already there if I remember correctly, and presumably their two older boys will soon be at university in the US as well.

I'm not sure what to make of Olympia's "It Girl" stage, except to hope that it is just a stage. Constantine and Anne Marie must be horrified.
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  #25  
Old 01-26-2017, 08:16 PM
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the Miller family was not invited, WAS the greek royal family,Crown Prince pavlos was in this event by this motive, he was invited. The event was sponsored by "Hellenic Initiative", which is a group of Greek businessmen with a significant relevance in the United States, Which raises funds and helps in Greek solidarity projects...... The invitation has been made by Republican senators to the Greek royal Family or Crown Prince Pavlos.
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  #26  
Old 01-27-2017, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
Considering how Greece treated the Greek RF over the years, I am surprised that any of them want to return. They have stolen the families properties and possessions, bullied them around and thrown them away several times.

The crown prince was forced to live outside of the country until the 90-ties. His father was even stripped of his Greek citizenship in 1994. The prince was forced to create a future for himself elsewhere. He now has his own carreer, as does his American wife. Why on earth would he move back at this point?

I do not disagree with you and Moonmaiden on the other points. But they are private citizens and free to live the way they want to.

Of course they are. But there´s a difference between what one can do and what is proper and wise.
All these insults by the greeks which were indeed hilarious didn´prevent the royal couple, which REALLY suffered under of all of this, or Prince Nikolaos and his wife to live there. And I really do believe them when they say they love Greece.
But hearing Pavlos talking in severeal interviews over the past 20 years how greek he feels, mentioning he was born there, his greek roots, that he feels an obligation "as a Crown Prince towards MY country" no matter what sounds like a farce to me!

I guess especially his wife is secretely happy that there will never be a restauration and she seems to be perfectly happy with her jet set life (today London, tomorrow Hong Kong, the day after the Bahamas...), having precious jewels and being invited to the european royal courts of europe without any responsibility towards the greek people except her own business of (luxurious...) children´s wear.
No, it requires more than one or two stays a year for a couple of days in Greece (they even spend their holidays much more and longer elsewhere than Greece) to prove that you really care...
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  #27  
Old 01-27-2017, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by crm2317 View Post
To be honest I don't see why they should show an interest in moving to Greece. The country shows little to no interest at all in their former royals, why should they let it influence their life choices and where they live.

Well, do you move to a place because PEOPLE are interested if you do or do you move because YOU have an interest in living there?!
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  #28  
Old 01-27-2017, 03:31 AM
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Well, do you move to a place because PEOPLE are interested if you do or do you move because YOU have an interest in living there?!

Ok but why would they have an interest in living there? Other than it being his country of birth. They have no obligation to Greece at all.
I agree with others that they seem to love the sudo-celebrity lifestyle and their children seem very used to wealth and jet setting. Their daughter certainly seems to be building a profile for herself as an IT girl. Whether you agree with that or not, I don't see why they should consider Greece in their life choices or in the future of their children. There is no chance of a restoration, the country treated them terribly. Other than holidays to Greece to revisit his birth country Pavlos seems to have no meaningful interest and to be honest I don't blame him!
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  #29  
Old 01-27-2017, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by stef View Post
the Miller family was not invited, WAS the greek royal family,Crown Prince pavlos was in this event by this motive, he was invited. The event was sponsored by "Hellenic Initiative", which is a group of Greek businessmen with a significant relevance in the United States, Which raises funds and helps in Greek solidarity projects...... The invitation has been made by Republican senators to the Greek royal Family or Crown Prince Pavlos.

Thank you for the information stef, from that perspective the presence of Pavlos and his wife at the inaugural festivities makes more sense.
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  #30  
Old 01-27-2017, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by crm2317 View Post
Ok but why would they have an interest in living there? Other than it being his country of birth. They have no obligation to Greece at all.
I agree with others that they seem to love the sudo-celebrity lifestyle and their children seem very used to wealth and jet setting. Their daughter certainly seems to be building a profile for herself as an IT girl. Whether you agree with that or not, I don't see why they should consider Greece in their life choices or in the future of their children. There is no chance of a restoration, the country treated them terribly. Other than holidays to Greece to revisit his birth country Pavlos seems to have no meaningful interest and to be honest I don't blame him!

Why would they have an interest?! I beg your pardon. Perhaps because they repeated over and over again before it was possible for them to live in Greece that they wanted to, because he kept on saying how much he missed Greece...?
And may be because Pavlos still claims to be the pretender of the former greek crown and how great Greece would be, how unique and wonderful the greek people were, bla bla bla...

And I don´t see why his daughter wouldn´t be able to play "It-Girl" while studying in NY with her parents living in all the luxury they are used to in Greece? Aren´t there millionairs and billionairs living in Greece?
Interview for his grandmother´s upcoming 90th birthday (Olympia was a toddler, Tino a little baby): "I keep my standard as a Crown Prince very high!"
If Paul was really serious about that it would mean to stay at least in europe (if Greece is not good enough for them) and to found several projects to help the poor and suffering greek people like his grandmother Frederica did or like his parents and younger brother are doing by the Anna-Maria-foundation.

I really do not understand how, of all people, the future head of a dynasty which fought for decades to win back the trust of their countrymen seems to do everything to proove republicans and anti-monarchists right!

I wouldn´t blame Pavlos either if he never claimed the things I metioned before. The fact that he repeatedly did prooves that it was nothing but, well, bla bla bla
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  #31  
Old 01-27-2017, 01:38 PM
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are they moving to the US now because trump is president or is it a mere coincidence? i was puzzled to see that MC follows trump on twitter a while back, but i guess it is normal: she probably relates to him as the member of a millionaire family from NY. she probably met him and his family plenty of times and they are part of the same circle in NY... they probably think he will act on their interests in some way as someone who is 'part of their group'.
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  #32  
Old 01-27-2017, 05:26 PM
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this has nothing to do with the United States elections, nor other political circumstances .... the decision to go to live in the USA is much earlier than the month of June 2016, because Maria Olympia said in an interview In Hello! That her parents would soon be in New York, they were looking at houses to live, it was in june 2016, At may/june her mother had shared photos in New York. I think that this decisition, consulting her accounts of instagram, about january of 2016.

Finally, although this seems incredible, Donald Trump has been democratically elected by the people of the United States, and this decision has to be respected. This is not a question of supporting the policies of Donald Trump, it is a matter of respecting the decision of the United States people. I imagine that this greek organization of businessmen will do everything possible to talk to Donald Trump and seek support to help Greece.
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  #33  
Old 01-27-2017, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BELTRANEJA View Post
this has nothing to do with the United States elections, nor other political circumstances .... the decision to go to live in the USA is much earlier than the month of June 2016, because Maria Olympia said in an interview In Hello! That her parents would soon be in New York, they were looking at houses to live, it was in june 2016, At may/june her mother had shared photos in New York. I think that this decisition, consulting her accounts of instagram, about january of 2016.

Finally, although this seems incredible, Donald Trump has been democratically elected by the people of the United States, and this decision has to be respected. This is not a question of supporting the policies of Donald Trump, it is a matter of respecting the decision of the United States people. I imagine that this greek organization of businessmen will do everything possible to talk to Donald Trump and seek support to help Greece.
He was elected by our system of the electoral college but lost the popular vote by about three million votes, the fifth time this type of win has happened in our history.

Is it my imagination or do the Greek cups not seem to attend any danish royal family events in the last few years?
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  #34  
Old 01-27-2017, 05:47 PM
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Actually, its unlikely that the Millers are Trump supporters, due to the protectionist stance of Donald and the fact that Daddy Miller has made his money in the sort of multinational company that the Trump campaign has been railing against. They would not benefit from any renegiotiation of NAFTA, a trade war with China, or the potential of Trump being impeached partway through his term, all of which are very real possibilities. Likewise Trump's views on Latin America probably wouldn't sit well with Mama Miller. All things considered I'd actually wager that the Miller's were probably reluctant Clinton supporters, given her ties to Wall Street and her support of free trade.

AFAIK P and MC left NYC after the 9/11 attacks, which is understandable, but also that fact they could take advantage of non-dom status in the UK - this is still a thing as far as I know and given both brexit and eternal Tory rule both seem certain any poss trump tax deals don't seem a likely reason. It might actaully not be financial at all. Unlikely but possible.

They attended Margaret Thacthers funeral on behalf of C and AM who were the original invitees. Like it or not MT was still a major policital figure on the international stage and her funeral was a state event, it would have been churlish not to go.

As for the Hellenic Initiative, the GRF have been involved in that for a long time - C was often a guest at a number of their events during the Reagen years and these ties to said GOP grandees go back to the days of the greek civil war. Again Simone had to go and since C is too poorly for major travel anymore someone had to go. It would have been rude and churlish not to.
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  #35  
Old 01-27-2017, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Frelinghighness View Post
He was elected by our system of the electoral college but lost the popular vote by about three million votes, the fifth time this type of win has happened in our history.

Is it my imagination or do the Greek cups not seem to attend any danish royal family events in the last few years?

But that electoral system is the same that existed with Obama, Bush, Clinton ... If it had been the other way around, Hillary would have been president. He has been chosen by the US electoral system that gives more value to the electoral college than to direct voting. I'm sorry but this is the rule of law of the United States. In Spain something similar happens, and in many European countries, it does not govern the direct votes necessarily, if not the one that most Deputies have in parliament.

I have seen to the King Constantine and Queen Anne Marie in Denmark, in the 75th anniversary of Queen Marghrete. And Queen Marghrete was in august in Porto Jely in birthday of Queen Anne Marie.

In Vogue, Maria Olympia has said that she is very happy because in August her parents are going to live in New York
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  #36  
Old 01-28-2017, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
AFAIK P and MC left NYC after the 9/11 attacks, which is understandable, but also that fact they could take advantage of non-dom status in the UK - this is still a thing as far as I know and given both brexit and eternal Tory rule both seem certain any poss trump tax deals don't seem a likely reason. It might actaully not be financial at all. Unlikely but possible.

They attended Margaret Thacthers funeral on behalf of C and AM who were the original invitees. Like it or not MT was still a major policital figure on the international stage and her funeral was a state event, it would have been churlish not to go.

If that was what they were usually doing I had no problems with this CP couple at all - on the contrary. It is their very unroyal, jet set lifestyle I condemn. And I think, although I think Thatcher was a disaster, there´s a "bit" of a difference to a racist like Trump!

If some of you again keep saying "Oh, they have no obligations, he´s not a CP of a reigning house etc etc" I can only repeat, fine. But in that case Paul should be so honest to say he´s through with that royal stuff. But he isn´t - on the contrary.
By the way, just look at all the other abolished monarchies, Bulgaria, Serbia, Romania ( I exclude the ex-King here! He could have returned entirely to Romania since many years!), Germany, Albania, Portugal - in all of these houses members still deal with their dynasty´s heritage or even work permanently on a possible restoration. That I wouldn´t "demand" from Paul/ Pavlosl and MC, but I expect them to care just a bit more of his father´s and grandfather´s former kingdom and its people!
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  #37  
Old 01-28-2017, 08:11 AM
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The Royal Houses, I have always said, are families linked to the history of a territory.

A Royal House is not owned by a state, it is not a state who puts an end to a Royal House. Prince Paul is heir, he attends acts in representation of his father and the Royal House.

I think like you, being a member of a Royal House and heir must have obligations, like knowing the history and culture of his family, and country. For example, I remember the documentaries of channels and magazines destined for history, and I have seen King Constantine in many of these documentaries speaking about, for example, Greece during World War I, his grandfather, ... And giving lectures on history, about Cyprus. King Constantine and Queen Anna Maria have maintained the Greek culture and traditions....

I believe that it is also necessary that they learn the identifying language of their Royal House, which is Greek, and the religion which is the Orthodox Christian, and I want to remember that the King is very important into the orthodox religion.

they are not on a throne, but they are a member of a Royal House, and that therefore forces them to have certain duties.

I am going to point another example, Princess Tatiana, she said to a magazine that be a member of a royal family allows you to go to royal weddings, baptisms, meet and talk with Kings and Princes and Princesses.This fame, she thought should be used to promote solidarity projects.

I believe there are two positions in the Royal family, the family of the heir, and the family of Prince Nikolaos.I think Pavlos and Marie Chantal and their family identify with the jet-set concept. And I think Prince Nikolaos and Tatiana identify with the concept of Royals (and also Princess Alexia)
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  #38  
Old 01-28-2017, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
British tax penalties for people of extreme wealth are even more stringent in the UK than in the US.

.
Thats actually incorrect. Britain has a very tax friendly regime for non-domiciled people of overseas origin, which is why Britain has emerged as a convenient home for many international rich people.
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  #39  
Old 01-29-2017, 01:16 AM
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If that was what they were usually doing I had no problems with this CP couple at all - on the contrary. It is their very unroyal, jet set lifestyle I condemn. And I think, although I think Thatcher was a disaster, there´s a "bit" of a difference to a racist like Trump!

If some of you again keep saying "Oh, they have no obligations, he´s not a CP of a reigning house etc etc" I can only repeat, fine. But in that case Paul should be so honest to say he´s through with that royal stuff. But he isn´t - on the contrary.
By the way, just look at all the other abolished monarchies, Bulgaria, Serbia, Romania ( I exclude the ex-King here! He could have returned entirely to Romania since many years!), Germany, Albania, Portugal - in all of these houses members still deal with their dynasty´s heritage or even work permanently on a possible restoration. That I wouldn´t "demand" from Paul/ Pavlosl and MC, but I expect them to care just a bit more of his father´s and grandfather´s former kingdom and its people!
From what I have observed of P he had made efforts over the years to establish himself as a 'person of substance' but nothing has ever really stuck, and often things get thrown back in his face. There is only so much backfire one person can take before asking "is it really worth it?" On the whole I get the impression that he is done with the whole 'eternal crown prince' gig and would probably like to just get on with life but can't while C is still alive. Things might change after C passes away (not for a long time - touch wood) as Nikolaos is more popular with those who care about these things.

Honestly, to me (I'm in a charitable mood at the moment) P seems like he is bored, restless, and can't find his place in the grand scheme of things (mid life crisis?). Think about it this way - his cousin Felipe is now king, as is Philipe of Belgium and WAX of NL; and Frederik, Victoria, Haakon, and even Prince Charles will be too in time as well. P probably could live with this when they were all princes, but now more of them are ascending the thrones of their respective countries, or coming close to, that's a hard pill to swallow on a gut emotional level, even if you can reconcile your self to it intellectually. Compare to MC, who for all her egregious character flaws seems happy with her buisness, tacky lifestyle and motherhood - probably because she never had anyone have expectations of her as a child and young woman, she doesn't have the dilemma P is facing. All things considered, given the fact that P won't ever be king isn't his fault, its not impossible to imagine that this might be a source of friction between him and C, who does bear some responsibility for the position P finds himself in? Having the sins of the father visited upon the son, so to speak, is never easy to live with, and neither for that matter is the lingering question of 'what if' in the back of your mind either.

Undertaking the kind of work mentioned above is hard slog and not for everyone. Especially if it wasn't something you asked to do in the first place. Being heir to a deposed house inst the same as being heir to a reigning monarchy; you pretty much have a lifetime of being stuck in a social/political twilight zone and the fact that if you try and be politically involved you look like a quixotic ninny, and if you try and do somthing independent you're accused of being an upper class twit. In other words dammed if you and dammed if you don't. I do agree that the jet set lifestyle, or more accurately the open flaunting of said lifestyle, is bad taste and speaks to a certain lack of self awareness on their part, however things could be a lot worse - look at the ex royal family of Italy!

Sorry for being long and slightly off topic. This was just an attempt to look at the issues from their point of view and provide another angle to help the debate along.

The Royal Chronicles take on the inauguration and CPP's presence:

http://http://www.royalchronicles.gr...vlos-usa-2017/
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Old 01-29-2017, 07:05 AM
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From what I have observed of P he had made efforts over the years to establish himself as a 'person of substance' but nothing has ever really stuck, and often things get thrown back in his face. There is only so much backfire one person can take before asking "is it really worth it?" On the whole I get the impression that he is done with the whole 'eternal crown prince' gig and would probably like to just get on with life but can't while C is still alive. Things might change after C passes away (not for a long time - touch wood) as Nikolaos is more popular with those who care about these things.

Honestly, to me (I'm in a charitable mood at the moment) P seems like he is bored, restless, and can't find his place in the grand scheme of things (mid life crisis?). Think about it this way - his cousin Felipe is now king, as is Philipe of Belgium and WAX of NL; and Frederik, Victoria, Haakon, and even Prince Charles will be too in time as well. P probably could live with this when they were all princes, but now more of them are ascending the thrones of their respective countries, or coming close to, that's a hard pill to swallow on a gut emotional level, even if you can reconcile your self to it intellectually. Compare to MC, who for all her egregious character flaws seems happy with her buisness, tacky lifestyle and motherhood - probably because she never had anyone have expectations of her as a child and young woman, she doesn't have the dilemma P is facing. All things considered, given the fact that P won't ever be king isn't his fault, its not impossible to imagine that this might be a source of friction between him and C, who does bear some responsibility for the position P finds himself in? Having the sins of the father visited upon the son, so to speak, is never easy to live with, and neither for that matter is the lingering question of 'what if' in the back of your mind either.

Undertaking the kind of work mentioned above is hard slog and not for everyone. Especially if it wasn't something you asked to do in the first place. Being heir to a deposed house inst the same as being heir to a reigning monarchy; you pretty much have a lifetime of being stuck in a social/political twilight zone and the fact that if you try and be politically involved you look like a quixotic ninny, and if you try and do somthing independent you're accused of being an upper class twit. In other words dammed if you and dammed if you don't. I do agree that the jet set lifestyle, or more accurately the open flaunting of said lifestyle, is bad taste and speaks to a certain lack of self awareness on their part, however things could be a lot worse - look at the ex royal family of Italy!

Sorry for being long and slightly off topic. This was just an attempt to look at the issues from their point of view and provide another angle to help the debate along.

I think you made some excellent and wise points I can only agree on! But the solution of this dilemma P. might be in cannot be in "gow with the (jet set) flow" and let things go, but to make your own profile - in this case a profile as an exiled Crown Prince who, if he really wished to, could well be living in "his country" (the Prince´s very own words!) and make a contribution like members of his family do and like other royals out of office still do! The same goes for his wife. She knew who she married; it is a man with a long family history and kings, emperors and tsars in his ancestery.
To me it seems MC is in harness to decide how things are being done while P is following. My impression is their children have been brought up like kids of a Hollywood-celebrity-couple and not frome one where one parent is the eldest son of a former monarch!
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